358 replies to this topic

[StalaggtIKE]

Koujo, on 22 March 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

I dealt 600+ damage with two LRM10s on my treb last match I played it. Impossible you say? Not really. Tag + Artemis + keeping direct line of sight on your target to make sure your missiles actually hit what you're locked onto and it's not hard to do. Yes it takes effort and you actually might take damage in the process unlike hiding behind a ridge and relying on others to get locks for you and then hoping they don't lose those locks before your missiles hit. Could only imagine what I could do with two LRM20s.

I wouldn't be opposed to a small and I mean SMALL increase to missile damage but it's no where as bad as all these drama queens are making it out to be.

That is how it should work; risk for reward. Unfortunately, that was not my experience last night. It seems those hiding boats were the only ones having any success with LRM. Perhaps my opinion will change over the weekend.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 22 March 2013 - 10:03 AM.

[NKAc Street]

Like i said. They are near perfect for a positive move for great game balance. After that volley. A light could come along and finish him off. Leaving you to seek other targets. Pgi could leave them alone at this point and the game is made better.

I say that because if the recent change to the cat is to some a great move. Then after the change to lrms i am compelled to now agree.

[Gregore]

MadPanda, on 21 March 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

I'll address you directly, but this one goes out to others too saying the same thing. Are you guys not understanding what happened there? I did not shoot "one volley", I shot five. So I'm not sure where you got that "2 shots" will now kill an enemy. If we are now assuming that it takes two similar volleys as shown here, that means it takes 10 shots to kill an enemy. Nobody in their right mind is running a 5x LRM20 stalker. That is a joke build made for one purpose only; to test out the extreme situation with LRM's, and in such an extreme situation yes I fully expect to wreck my target when conditions are so perfect for it. If anyone thinks it was easy before to run a joke build like 5x LRM20 stalker and totally dominate, you are sorely mistaken. That thing moves like a snail and gets totally wrecked by ecm and light mechs.

The conclusion should be clear from what you've seen here; LRM's are not worth their tonnage anymore. If someone thinks its a good idea to bring in a weak weapon and call it a "support weapon", then by all means knock yourself out. But for the rest of us who are looking for effective builds and weapons, having such a huge weapon type to be a lot less than optimal is a huge game breaker.

You're right, 1 LRM 20 should be enough to kill a heavy. I mean with 5 you should be able to kill 5 mechs with one shot each.

[hammerreborn]

Valore, on 22 March 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

I'd like to point out something.


First, I'll make it clear, LRMs were broken, and clearly should have been fixed. I think the fix was just about right, maybe a little bit too much.

However, people just oversimplifying things are stupid.

Taking 100 LRMs to the face like that SHOULD kill you.

A boat sacrifices a lot to load that much weaponry onto his mech. This is the one key thing everyone forgets. They keep saying 'You're not supposed to be able to one shot people anyway', but don't remember that he's in a mech that dies screaming and wetting itself if a 3L, which he outweights by almost 3 times, shows up and says 'boo'.

If people want to min/max, I say they should be allowed to, as long as the pitfalls of doing so are there to counterbalance the benefits they gain from doing so.

I'd say for an LRM boat, the risks are there. Why are we catering to people who want to be willfully tactically stupid, walking out into the open?

What the hell is the use of the LRM boat as an area denial weapon to prevent people blatantly approaching you through open ground, if it doesn't do that?

Imagine a WWII shooter, where we had bunkers and machine gun emplacements. People walk up to it and get machinegunned down. If these same cretins got upset and complained that MGs should be nerfed because of that, they'd be rightfully laughed out of the discussion.

Why are LRMs somehow different?

Well for one, the AMS probably took down somewhere around 15-20 missiles, so we're down to 80, secondly, not every missile hits CT. Let's say 80% do. Now down to 64 missiles hitting the CT.

A cataphract has roughly that much armor in his front CT, and you not only want LRMs to go through that, but to also kill the 40 or so internal points?

Just be honest, you want your noob tube back and have no interest in balance.

Quote

I'd say for an LRM boat, the risks are there. Why are we catering to people who want to be willfully tactically stupid, walking out into the open?

For every other weapon in the game, that's a requirement being able to shoot at someone.

Edited by hammerreborn, 22 March 2013 - 11:00 AM.

[DeadlyNerd]

@OP You do understand that firing multiple installations of LRMs from a single missile pod is buggy. If you shot all your LRMs with chain fire they'd have better effect but there wouldn't be enough time. Just sayin'.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 22 March 2013 - 11:16 AM.

[Wildstreak]

Seems OK to me.
Personally consider anyone taking 5 LRM20 launchers and nothing else crazy, I believe a LRM Boat should have short range protection in its weapon loadout.

[MN03]

Koujo, on 22 March 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

I dealt 600+ damage with two LRM10s on my treb last match I played it. Impossible you say? Not really. Tag + Artemis + keeping direct line of sight on your target to make sure your missiles actually hit what you're locked onto and it's not hard to do. Yes it takes effort and you actually might take damage in the process unlike hiding behind a ridge and relying on others to get locks for you and then hoping they don't lose those locks before your missiles hit. Could only imagine what I could do with two LRM20s.

I wouldn't be opposed to a small and I mean SMALL increase to missile damage but it's no where as bad as all these drama queens are making it out to be.

Did your nose grow a little bit when you typed this? Every dedicated LRM user knows that it's difficult to have more than 500 damage with LRM50+ at the moment. You are telling me you got 600+ dmg with only LRM 20? Wow, what a demi-god. I just shot 1K missiles, most of it tagged, in Alpine peak with my LRM60 (plus used my 5xML several times) and just got ~600 damage.

Edited by MN03, 22 March 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[Adrienne Vorton]

MadPanda, on 21 March 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

QQ

aaaaaawwwwww...no onehit wonder anymore? guess you have to find a new noob weapon config then

btw, i was sooo looking forward to those tears brought by this hotfix... taste good...

Quote

blabla stupid idiots walking into the open blabla

Quote

For every other weapon in the game, that's a requirement being able to shoot at someone.

right, and it was close to impossible for a week... you could either chose to die in lrm rain (no way to NOT be hit twice by SOME of those 5 lrms boats spread across the map) or just to hide and let down your team, especially in a slow mech

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 22 March 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[Sheraf]

Koujo, on 22 March 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

I dealt 600+ damage with two LRM10s on my treb last match I played it. Impossible you say? Not really. Tag + Artemis + keeping direct line of sight on your target to make sure your missiles actually hit what you're locked onto and it's not hard to do. Yes it takes effort and you actually might take damage in the process unlike hiding behind a ridge and relying on others to get locks for you and then hoping they don't lose those locks before your missiles hit. Could only imagine what I could do with two LRM20s.

I wouldn't be opposed to a small and I mean SMALL increase to missile damage but it's no where as bad as all these drama queens are making it out to be.

Hitting newbie? Any decent one will just tank the missile and blow you to shred , tag, artemis or not

[Siliconwolf]

Valore, on 22 March 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

I'd like to point out something.


First, I'll make it clear, LRMs were broken, and clearly should have been fixed. I think the fix was just about right, maybe a little bit too much.

However, people just oversimplifying things are stupid.

Taking 100 LRMs to the face like that SHOULD kill you.

A boat sacrifices a lot to load that much weaponry onto his mech. This is the one key thing everyone forgets. They keep saying 'You're not supposed to be able to one shot people anyway', but don't remember that he's in a mech that dies screaming and wetting itself if a 3L, which he outweights by almost 3 times, shows up and says 'boo'.

If people want to min/max, I say they should be allowed to, as long as the pitfalls of doing so are there to counterbalance the benefits they gain from doing so.

I'd say for an LRM boat, the risks are there. Why are we catering to people who want to be willfully tactically stupid, walking out into the open?

What the hell is the use of the LRM boat as an area denial weapon to prevent people blatantly approaching you through open ground, if it doesn't do that?

Imagine a WWII shooter, where we had bunkers and machine gun emplacements. People walk up to it and get machinegunned down. If these same cretins got upset and complained that MGs should be nerfed because of that, they'd be rightfully laughed out of the discussion.

Why are LRMs somehow different?

People like have wild west robot showdowns and LRMs take away from that, that's why. "I don't want to worry about cover, I don't want to worry about helping teammates or tactics. I just want to run over to an enemy mech and pew pew with my laz0rz." If they die while doing that, especially to LRMs, it's because the other team are a bunch of no skill losers that can't compete with truly 'skilled' players and have to resort to cheap tactics. The reality is that you can wreck those people all day, no matter what weapons you're using. I've killed heavies and assaults with a jenner with nothing more than firing med lasers into their backs. They weren't afk and I wasn't maneuvering to keep at their back. I stood in one spot and kept firing until they were dead and they never had the sense to even turn around. They just kept shooting at whatever target off in the distance they were firing at. If you're running an LRM boat and killing people one after another with it, it's not because it's 'easy mode' and 'no skill', it's because the people you're playing against are failing hard at playing the game.

[Koujo]

Sheraf, on 22 March 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

Hitting newbie? Any decent one will just tank the missile and blow you to shred , tag, artemis or not

Not really. Most of the damage was on two different atlases. The first one was brawler fit and wasn't fast enough to close the distance on me. I killed him. I severely damaged another atlas who retreated behind cover and a teammate finished him off.

You all act like LRMs do zero damage. It's just not true. You just have to put some effort into using them like any other weapon. The trick is making sure they ACTUALLY HIT SOMETHING.

[Braggart]

that looks perfect.

I dont know why people thing that single massive volley should destroy a mech, ep when it is a heavy mech.

That single volley crushed him to the point another will finish him, and he will be very cautious the rest of the match he is alive.

Just like when the 6 PPC stalker pops me center torso with a lucky shot also, That might break through the armor of a heavy mech.

I think the balance is good now. LRM are great support damage, and downright brutal when used in mass.

The amount of hurt you put on him perfect for the tonnage, and work needed for the kill. Keep in mind that you could be doing this to people from behind a hill and from 700M away. Can anyone else equip a load out like that and delivery devastation of that level. NO.

Quit crying about LRMS not crushing everything in a single volley, you and I know it was broke.

Edited by Braggart, 22 March 2013 - 01:45 PM.

[Sheraf]

Braggart, on 22 March 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

that looks perfect.

I dont know why people thing that single massive volley should destroy a mech, ep when it is a heavy mech.

That single volley crushed him to the point another will finish him, and he will be very cautious the rest of the match he is alive.

Just like when the 6 PPC stalker pops me center torso with a lucky shot also, i am then critted orange and doing my best to stay alive.

I think the balance is good now. LRM are great support damage, and downright brutal when used in mass.

In another words, everyone let's boat LRM

Edited by Sheraf, 22 March 2013 - 01:45 PM.

[Braggart]

Sheraf, on 22 March 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

In another words, everyone let's boat LRM

Why? Why should everyone boat LRMs? If you ask me, it would be better to have a balanced loadout of missles and Lasers..

Edited by Braggart, 22 March 2013 - 01:46 PM.

[Sheraf]

Braggart, on 22 March 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

Why? Why should everyone boat LRMs? If you ask me, it would be better to have a balanced loadout of missles and Lasers..

Because it is downright brutal to use in mass

[Braggart]

Sheraf, on 22 March 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Because it is downright brutal to use in mass

Everything is brutal when used in mass. My awesome with 2 LRM 15 and 3 Large lasers is brutal when used in mass. SO is the 4 UAC jager. Mass amount of weapons cause mass damage. Nothing says you have to have a mass of like weapons. You just need alot of weapons total.

Edited by Braggart, 22 March 2013 - 01:49 PM.

[MN03]

After having played my LRM stalker (LRM50+5ML) intensively I have slightly changed my mind. I actually like the changes now. I'm still topping the scoreboards (both dmg and kills) but it takes more effort and skill (the way it should be). The only problem I have now is ammo. I'm carrying around 9 tons of them and that's barely enough. The low damage is ok, but having to shoot twice/three times the amount is not fun.

So my (pointless) revisited suggestion:
1) Slightly increase missile speed from 100m/s to 150m/s
2) Increase ammo from 180/ton to 250/ton.

That's it.

[Siliconwolf]

Braggart, on 22 March 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

that looks perfect.

I dont know why people thing that single massive volley should destroy a mech, ep when it is a heavy mech.

That single volley crushed him to the point another will finish him, and he will be very cautious the rest of the match he is alive.

Just like when the 6 PPC stalker pops me center torso with a lucky shot also, i am then critted orange and doing my best to stay alive.

I think the balance is good now. LRM are great support damage, and downright brutal when used in mass.

Yeah, they're wonderful...provided all your targets are idiots that just stumble around in the open soaking up enemy fire like a sponge. Love the 'support damage'....that's basically saying 'wasted tonnage and crit space'. An LRM 20 is functionally equivalent to an AC/20. Both are high damage weapon systems, just with different ways of dealing damage. Saying an LRM 20 is 'support damage', is the same as saying an AC/20, Gauss or PPC is 'support damage', which obviously isn't true.

Edited by Siliconwolf, 22 March 2013 - 02:06 PM.

[Comguard]

What I think is strange is that LRMs still go to center torso mainly. Even smaller mechs. Like the spread tightens up to the imaginare middle of the target.

Arms seem to be almost never damaged by LRMs.

[sarkun]

There are no 'support weapons' in this game. There are weapons that enable you to kill the enemy before he kills you, and the useless kind - like the MG or Flamer.

Saying things like 'LRMs are a support weapon, to help the real damage dealers on your team' shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

Why the ^%$!* would you equip 'support' weapons and not be one of the 'real damage dealers'?

I'm still on the fence about how effective the LRMs are post fix. But the fact that almost noone takes them does not bode well.