121 replies to this topic

[Renegade Outlaw]

srm damage needs to be scaled up a little they got nerfed to much medium mechs are practicley useless now unless you have 4 mediums running together and then its sketchy not saying they need to be back were they were just need to be scaled up some from were they are

[idle crow]

All SRM need is state rewind and they be fine. Damage is very comparable to other brawling weapons.

[focuspark]

Splash damage and poor spread are the problem - remove splash damage, increase default spread, put damage back at 2.5 per missile.

[Doxylicious]

This last patch made my Splatcat COMPLETLY ******** and USELESS right now.
wy take smr 6 now or any smr?

it was very weak in def. now its weak had has low dmg. and extreme heat build up.... they need to cut the heat in halve...

[qki]

focuspark, on 23 March 2013 - 11:35 PM, said:

Splash damage and poor spread are the problem - remove splash damage, increase default spread, put damage back at 2.5 per missile.

Didn't work.

Really people - read the ******* patch notes. The hotfix was supposed to remove splash, and it turned out that LRMs became a CT-sniping weapon, so splash went back in, with a smaller radius, and damage per missile went down.

Doxylicious, on 24 March 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

This last patch made my Splatcat COMPLETLY ******** and USELESS right now.
wy take smr 6 now or any smr?

it was very weak in def. now its weak had has low dmg. and extreme heat build up.... they need to cut the heat in halve...

or, alternatively

L2P

[Doxylicious]

qki, on 24 March 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

or, alternatively

L2P

no u need to l2p.

[qki]

I'm not the one complaining how my "mech has been rendered useless" and I can't win anymore. Cause it's totally the 'mech's fault, and not yours.


Post Fix (only 2 SSRM2 on that atlas, 3LL and a gauss). As for the splatcat - it's still good. Doing 1600 damage is not how you decide between good and bad. If you had any skill at the actual game, you'd know that most of that high damage was superflous really. A concentrated barrage will core (or leg) a mech faster, and with less total damage than it takes to completely wrek it.

[Flash Yoghurt]

I played some games with my SRM equiped Cents today (one has 1 SRM4 + 1 SRM 6, the other one carries 3 SRM 2). Damage is lower than before the Patch, as was expected, but still at acceptable levels. If SRMs need to be buffed again then its only by a small margin.

@Thontor: My respect to you, this whole debate looks a bit like arguing with a creationist, but I think your math is solid.

[Mazzyplz]

nerf killed my missile builds; they suck now

[qki]

no, they don't. you do.

[ICEFANG13]

That's right, you suck with those LRMs, L2makethemflyfasterintheairandnotbringdirectfireweaponsnoob

I need to L2notusethespacebaraftereverwordwhenI'mmakingajoke.

[focuspark]

qki, on 24 March 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

Didn't work.

Really people - read the ******* patch notes. The hotfix was supposed to remove splash, and it turned out that LRMs became a CT-sniping weapon, so splash went back in, with a smaller radius, and damage per missile went down.

Pay attention to what you're quoting. I said, remove splash damage and increase spread - meaning don't make them CT homing.

[qki]

an't that's a more extensive code rewrite than what we got - too extensive to use as a stopgap measure.

[Flash Yoghurt]

In the end we will most likely get a solution of the type focusspark suggested. What we have now is just a stopgap to prevent the terrible rain of missiles experienced before the hotfix. Give them at least the time to code a proper solution!

[Amaris the Usurper]

I crunched some numbers from my stats to find damage-per-missile numbers under typical battlefield conditions. See http://mwomercs.com/...st-your-stats/. Add your own results, if interested.

SRM 6s were giving 2.40 pre-patch, no less than 3.23 pre-hotfix, and 2.02 post-hotfix (84% of the pre-patch value).

Streak SRM 2s were giving giving 3.05 pre-patch and 2.20 post-hotfix (72% of the pre-patch value). Unfortunately, I didn't fire any Streaks between the patch and the hotfix.

[Gabriel Amarell]

SRM-6 + Artemis 3 slots 4 tons 4 heat 4 second recycle
max realistic range ~ 150 meters
add in 3 tons and another 3 slots for ammo/heat sinks and you have:
SRM-6 + Artemis 6 slots 7 tons 4 heat 4 second recycle

Out to 150 meters about two thirds of the missiles hit, at 200 half, farther and your lucky if any of them hit even with Artemis. this makes srm's super short range heavy hitters that are actually small enough for lights and mediums to carry, and they are the only heavy hitters we can carry. Autocannons are so heavy by the time u give a medium full armor, the gun, ammmo and heat sinks + an engine its lucky if it has enough room for M-Las backup weapons.

Were they OP at 2.5/missile maybe a little, maybe.
Were they OP at 2.5/missile with crazy messed up splash dmg, yes, definitely.
Is 1.5/missile a rediculous nerf that has made them not worth taking, yes.

2.0 would be probably be appropriate with splash.

The hunchie with a 250 standard, ENDO and full armor has 19 tons left for weapons. Thats enough to give it an AC-10 and 4 medium lasers.... the same firepower as a Jenner.... If missiles are weak mediums are worthless. they barely have more firepower than the lights and they do not have the maneuverability or the speed, or ECM, so they aren't as survivable, they also dont have the armor or firepower of the heavies and the hunchie is barely faster than the heavies... This nerf leaves mediums in general and hunchies in particular with no role...

[Amaris the Usurper]

It looks like the devs tried giving 2.5 direct damage to each SRM and found that it was too easy to concentrate damage on the CT, e.g., the 6 x SRM 6 Catapult could easily deal 90 instantaneous damage to one location up close.

The bandaid was to reduce direct damage while, at the same time, capping splash damage and reducing its radius, in order to prevent wholesale Commando-slaughter. The result is that we get 1.5 direct damage, with (typically) an additional 0.5 dealt through splash. So we now have (for the 6 x SRM 6 Catapult) 54 damage dealt to the location struck, along with 18 to adjacent locations.

The damage concentration is curbed, but now it becomes harder to inflict the full damage when hitting the legs or arms, i.e., there is nothing adjacent to splash.

They have talked about adjusting missile trajectories. However, I wonder if the right solution isn't to axe splash damage, make the missiles more accurate (with good aim, effective out to 270 m against most 'mechs), and have them fire in sequence ("ripple fire") instead of all at once. It wouldn't need to take very long--say, a half second to fire 6 missiles, maybe less.

This would tend to spread the damage over the target (in the same way as lasers) and to make the level of damage concentration dependent on user skill. It would fix the problem where SRMs are practically worthless outside 150 m. Also, it would help to justify the higher heat values for the small launcher sizes: 3 SRM 2 generates 6 heat, compared to 4 heat for a single SRM 6, but it would be easier to put all the missiles into one location on the target, since the firing sequence ends sooner.

If I remember correctly, this is the way things were in both MW2 and MW4, and it was fine, although, as I recall, aiming was wonky in MW4--the missile stream "stuck" to the initial aimpoint instead of following the crosshair, which (IMHO) was nonsensical. The aimpoint should definitely follow the crosshair, allowing effective skill-based aiming.

Edited by Amaris the Usurper, 26 March 2013 - 06:28 AM.

[Kiryn]

All I know is that the LRM nerf made this game more boring. I'm not scared anymore when I hear "Incoming Missiles" and don't feel the need to rush to cover immediately. I did run LRM's quite a bit but no more than I ran any other weapon system, I would think that was the point, to have a "Balanced Build". Now I favor Ballistics because of the new hot map, energy 2nd and missiles 3rd, and if I have to equip missiles it's SRM's not LRM's.

I really hope next patch brings them back up a bit. This was a knee jerk reaction by the dev's in my opinion and they effectively neutered the LRM weapon system. They may have been overpowered but they were not 3x overpowered.

[xenoglyph]

+1 for SRM buff

[PEEFsmash]

Stop worrying about the 90 damage SRMcats. That damage will be spread all over the place. Sniper weapons are very strong...did you know that? Did you guys know that? Sniping weapons will be strong at range, and pure brawlers like SRMcat will be strong at short distance. Thats....thats just right! Plus, SRMcats have huge huge weaknesses. Head hitbox, CT hitbox, big destructable ears, etc.

#2.5TheMovement

Edited by PEEFsmash, 26 June 2013 - 09:53 PM.