64 replies to this topic

[Zyllos]

I hope they end up just slightly buff LRMs (1.0 damage maximum) but increase their speed greatly.

Also, it now seems TAG/NARC/Artemis is much more needed if you want to kill a target with LRMs, which is the way it is suppose to be.

This is why NARC needs a large buff in total removal of the NARC beacon time and an increase in the amount of damage taken to 50 or more points.

[Ilwrath]

DarkDevilDancer, on 22 March 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

Lrms are meant to soften up the enemy as you close range not kill them before they get a shot in, for a support weapon they were doing too much.

What do you mean with "soften up"? Why should I equip a slow moving, heavy to wear and prone to get ****** by cover weapon when I can go PPC's and use them for everything?

[MN03]

Ilwrath, on 22 March 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

What do you mean with "soften up"? Why should I equip a slow moving, heavy to wear and prone to get ****** by cover weapon when I can go PPC's and use them for everything?

Don't use logic, that's not welcome here. LRM is a support weapon, done deal.

[Elandyll]

Ilwrath, on 22 March 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

What do you mean with "soften up"? Why should I equip a slow moving, heavy to wear and prone to get ****** by cover weapon when I can go PPC's and use them for everything?

You can't fire your PPCs on a target you do not have a direct line of sight with. With a scout, possibly with TAG, you can unload your LRMs on a group hiden behind cover.
That's one among many other uses intended for LRMs,

[Max Genius]

Ilwrath, on 22 March 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

Yeah that works so well with all the ECM. No it does not. LRM boating before this patch forced you to get close and tag them yourself and if you do that you should be rewarded with premader cheese atlas and what not, going boom!

LRM pubbie life was no free ride into cbill heaven.

You're arguing 2 different points. I commented against what you said:

Ilwrath, on 22 March 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

Unless you find it challenging to point the cursor at some mech and press your mouse button.

Because pressing "R" without having to point your cursor is MUCH less challenging than having to maintain the cursor at the enemy. ECM is a different and separate issue. And no, before this patch, LRM boaters did not have to get close at all to be effective. You should learn to play with LRMs just like this guy did:

Anton Shiningstar, on 22 March 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

I don't seem to have the same problem when using my Stalker. 4 LRM 15s are doing there job quite well. Even without a dedicated spotter. I wracked up 3 kills & 2 assists. This was after the fix (nerf).

He's still able to be effective even after the patch. Now it separates noob missile spanners from actual good players that actually have to use tactics to get kills. Not just press "R" and click.

[Ilwrath]

Elandyll, on 22 March 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

You can't fire your PPCs on a target you do not have a direct line of sight with. With a scout, possibly with TAG, you can unload your LRMs on a group hiden behind cover.
That's one among many other uses intended for LRMs,

But that just don't work! Ever! Unless you are in a premade on coms the scout may lose target and you have wasted those missiles. LRM's was effective as a artemis boosted direct los weapon. While YOU held tag on your target. If you try to fire over a hill, 90% of the missiles will not even reach the target.

So it was used the same way as PPC's was. It only hit much much harder. But with the fact that the target may use its brains and ******** move into cover. Or even worse, use one of your teams mechs as cover so you get rewarded with a team kill.

Edited by Ilwrath, 22 March 2013 - 07:58 AM.

[Ilwrath]

Max Genius, on 22 March 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

Because pressing "R" without having to point your cursor is MUCH less challenging than having to maintain the cursor at the enemy. ECM is a different and separate issue. And no, before this patch, LRM boaters did not have to get close at all to be effective. You should learn to play with LRMs just like this guy did:

Oh I did just fine with LRM's. And yeah, it was pointless to fire at 800+. I have zero to learn.

Max Genius, on 22 March 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

He's still able to be effective even after the patch. Now it separates noob missile spanners from actual good players that actually have to use tactics to get kills. Not just press "R" and click.

Amusing. I see others reporting hilarious low damage.

What tactics? Please tell.

Edited by Ilwrath, 22 March 2013 - 08:02 AM.

[MN03]

Saying "I got 3 kills so LRMs are fine lollzzz" is just nonsense. I can make screenshots of me getting multiple kills using only small lasers. LRMs at this stage are not fine. Either the damage must be increased OR the speed (I would rather want that, 100m/sec is painfully slow).

[Ilwrath]

MN03, on 22 March 2013 - 08:05 AM, said:

OR the speed (I would rather want that, 100m/sec is painfully slow).

Yes and the speed was balanced. Yes they hit like a truck (before the fail-patch, they where broken after the patch) but they where slow and if you broke los you disabled Artemis and mostly did not get hit at all, artemis or not. And you needed to use tag. Lots of ECM out there.

If you really got unlucky you got a raven on you and that disables your main weapon. Forcing you to plink at it with whatever backup lasers you got room for after being forced to carry all that ammo and the heavy launchers themself.

Edited by Ilwrath, 22 March 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I ran a 2 LRM15(A) + BAP + TAG (+ 2 Md Lasers for close range) centurion just to see if the QQing is warranted.
It is not.

Yes damage is at an all-time low, but I still managed 300-500 per match, and stills scored kills.
I realize they are going to tweak the explostion radius, etc. but in their current state I don't think they are far off the numbers, possibilt a 0.1 to 0.2 damage boost. But the days of having to run cover to cover because a single volley of LRMs could disingtagrate your mech are hopefully over.

[Max Genius]

Ilwrath, on 22 March 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

I have zero to learn.

Now that's amusing. Sign of a guy who's full of himself I see. Sorry son, if you have zero to learn, then why complain? Because you still have a lot to learn on how to use LRMs the way they're implemented now. Just like this guy:

Anton Shiningstar, on 22 March 2013 - 06:25 AM, said:

I don't seem to have the same problem when using my Stalker. 4 LRM 15s are doing there job quite well. Even without a dedicated spotter. I wracked up 3 kills & 2 assists. This was after the fix (nerf).

Ilwrath, on 22 March 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

Amusing. I see others reporting hilarious low damage.

From the same noob missile spammers who all had their hell of a time during the few days when the LRM damage was ridiculously high. Might you be one of them? Oh of course not, you have ZERO to learn. Psssssshhhhh

Edited by Max Genius, 22 March 2013 - 09:46 AM.

[XIRUSPHERE]

They are only a joke to the masses at the moment because they are a tactical weapon. Personally I am happy with the change because it means less dead heads running DDC as missile boats crippling their team by sitting 800m back being useless using the wrong chassis for the job. As support you tactically move with your team, identify targets, paint targets, and use threat assessment to strip targets of armor. Even with the crippled missiles I have still been very effective in my missile platforms. I am both fine and thrilled with the wheat being separated from the chaff from time to time.

I look forward to any more balance changes that keep the coward scrubs out of the support role while people that can handle it continue to successfully exploit peoples tactical decisions, overconfidence, and mistakes.

[Max Genius]

Agree with your statement. No more hiding and firing wildly.

[NinetyProof]

Don't know ... my 4J with 2 SRM6's and 5 ML's got a lot of kills in last night. Those SRM6's, when in close, were doing a big chuck of damage ... then again, I was self tagging most targets ... and I supposed I could try artemis that would help pinpoint damage.

[Royalewithcheese]

SRMs are still pretty good. IMO the Grand List of Weapons That Are Actually Good In Brawls has gone from:

• SRM
  
• AC20
  
• UAC5
  
• MLas
  
• SLas

To:

• AC20
  
• UAC5
  
• SRM
  
• MLas
  
• SLas

I'm pretty cool with that. I would be fine with missiles doing more damage (say, TT values?) but in mah DDC they seem more in line with where they should be. It's perfect for some situations but doesn't overpower your other guns.

[EvilCow]

Best QQ thread ever.

[darkfall13]

MN03, on 22 March 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

Haha, LRM got nerfed because it was easy mode! Shooting with my double gauss/ac20/triple UAC5/4ppc/4ll takes more skillz. Live with it.

No I'm seriously wondering why does the community think this? You move your fat arm and click a mouse with a single finger for both direct fire weapons and missiles. But on a serious note:

• You have to keep your crosshairs on target for missiles and direct fire weapons, so same "skill," yes in the LRM world you have the advantage of distance so the enemy's angular velocity is lower, same with long range direct fire weapons, so again same "skill"
  
• In shorter range direct fire weapons scenarios you're near your target, in the environment with them, so target dodging via building or outcropping isn't really relevant, so your direct fire weapons take less "skill"
  
• With LRMs you have to take into account a pretty long arrival time, and the scene of battle can change drastically before your payload arrives, so you need pretty good foresight and calculating "skill"
  
• You pretty much have to have a target and have it locked to be of any use for missiles, unlike direct fire weapons, pew pew to your heart's content so less to monitor with direct fire so less "skill"
  
• There are loads of ways to defeat missiles, ECM, physical obstacles, AMS, etc so you need more "skill" for missiles to overcome those enemies, for direct fire weapons you only need to worry about physical obstacles so less "skill"
  
• Once your payload leaves the launchers it's up to the server gods, with direct fire weapons you can readjust or in duration weapons like lasers, can still hit even with a crap initial click

So what takes more "skill" again?

Edited by darkfall13, 22 March 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[NKAc Street]

Bs. I have a jenner with 1 srm6 on it and it works great. If i can get ppls attention with only 1 then they are just fine.

[Kahoumono]

I think the problem is not with the weapons but with the boating of weapons. I had a Treb3C with LRM15, ER PPC, 2 MLas and TAG, a pretty balanced build. 25 matches pre-hotfix I was doing close to an average of 500dmg per round, 25 matches post? I couldn't break 250 on average. Compared the results with my Raven2X pre and post, both doing over 400dmg per round. Lets not even consider the 3L.

Best fix would be diminishing returns in dmg of stacked weapons or the geometric increase of heat output of stacked weapons fired within a 1-2 second interval. This would one encourage balanced builds and two spread out the damage so you don't get 6ppcs in one spot.

[Victor Morson]

Scratx, on 22 March 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:

People got way too used to killing stuff easily with LRMs.

LRMs were an ineffective terrible weapon before this. I keep stressing this: Good players and good teams don't use LRMs. Previously maybe as a niche on a very fast medium but with the reduced damage, not even that.

They travel too slow and are countered too hard. They're a dead weight liability that needs a massive buff from the point they are at now (and not just in damage).

Zyllos, on 22 March 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

I hope they end up just slightly buff LRMs (1.0 damage maximum) but increase their speed greatly.

Also, it now seems TAG/NARC/Artemis is much more needed if you want to kill a target with LRMs, which is the way it is suppose to be.

This is why NARC needs a large buff in total removal of the NARC beacon time and an increase in the amount of damage taken to 50 or more points.

I am (and continue to be) in massive favor of NARCs gaining locking capability. It'd change the weapon entirely. It worked wonders for MW: Living Legends NARC.