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More "quirks" To Balance Light Mechs.


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#1 Kaeb Odellas

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:33 PM

I'll just get this out of the way: Light v. Light balance is virtually nonexistent. This is due to a number of factors (mainly access to ECM and Streaks), but even without either of those, there is still a serious lack of balance between the various light chassis. Their effectiveness is basically ruled by their hardpoint arrangement and access to ECM.


Which is where quirks come in. Why don't we give each chassis a unique "quirk" that lets them stand out from their peers? Something like:

Commando - Reduced sensor detectability and shutdown improvements. Decrease the range that it can be detected by enemies, increase their target info time, speed up targeting decay, and creates a delay between it popping into LOS and an enemy mech acquiring a target, so it can possibly hop from cover to cover without being detected. Further, giving it a faster startup/shutdown sequence and allowing it to maintain targeting while shut down would actually make powering down useful for ambushing and losing enemies.

Spider - Greater Jump Jet power and maneuverability. The Spider basically exists to be annoying and hard to hit, and with its generally poor armament and armor, it needs an edge to be worth it. Spiders should have greater jump power, much faster mid-air turning, and greater lateral speed.

Raven - Vastly Improved Sensors + Armor Reduction. Ravens are supposed to be dedicated ECM mechs that exist to protect their allies and not get into fights. However, the 3L variant is basically the king of solo Light v. Light warfare. To encourage pilots to play their role, Ravens should be given a big boost in sensor efficiency, to counter the Commando's quirks, and allow it to share possible targeting data with allies in range. Basically, if it can be targeted by the Raven, then any allies within 270m not blocked by ECM should be able to target it, even if the Raven isn't currently targeting that mech. This would give Ravens a big incentive to stick with their teams as intended in fluff. To further discourage Light solo play, Ravens should get a max Armor reduction of 2 points per non-head section, giving it a total max armor of 224.

Jenner - Better handling? Having played plenty of Jenner and loved every minute of it spent away from a Raven 3L, I can't really think of anything for it. It has excellent hardpoints and the tonnage to use them, and Jump jets. Its only weakness is the giant CT and lack of ECM.

Flea - SPEED! It's not out yet, but considering that it'll be smaller and weaker than the Commando, I can already tell this mech will be tough to use effectively. Working off the assumption that MASC will be available to all mechs, this thing will need to be silly faster than every other light mech to be worth it. Perhaps you could give it a jump capability without jets?

In addition to these changes, engine speeds should be normalized within each variant, and ECM should be accessible to all variants of an ECM-capable chassis. This would make the current non-ECM variants actually usable.


TL;DR

-Make Commandos better at sneaking and hiding with mild passive ECM effect.
-Improve Spider JJ ability
-Reduce Raven max armor by 16 pts and give it super sensors that can see farther, target faster, and share all of its targeting data with nearby friendlies
-Fast Fleas GO FAAAAST
-Each variant should have the same max engine size.
-Each variant of an ECM mech should be able to carry ECM.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 22 March 2013 - 03:37 PM.


#2 Nathan Foxbane

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:34 PM

Ravens should have mounting BAP as a requirement to gain that sensor bonus. They were supposed to be comprehensive electronic warfare support, not the 'Mech of kill everything regularly.

#3 Durant Carlyle

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:31 PM

The Flea isn't going to be a speed-demon 'Mech, as it wasn't designed to be. It's base speed is 97.2kph, just like the Commando's. You want a speed-demon light, ask for the Locust -- there's one variant that has a base speed of 194kph.

And ECM should stay restricted to certain variants of certain 'Mechs. The last thing we need is more ECM.

#4 Kaeb Odellas

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:49 PM

View PostDurant Carlyle, on 22 March 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

The Flea isn't going to be a speed-demon 'Mech, as it wasn't designed to be. It's base speed is 97.2kph, just like the Commando's. You want a speed-demon light, ask for the Locust -- there's one variant that has a base speed of 194kph.

And ECM should stay restricted to certain variants of certain 'Mechs. The last thing we need is more ECM.


But the Flea needs an edge, otherwise it'll be pretty much useless. What else can you give the lightest mech we're going to see besides speed? I mean, the Raven wasn't designed to be the king of 1 v. 1 light battles, but here we are. Adhering rigidly to the tabletop and fluff is only going to result in bad gameplay, since none of that was design with first person shooter mechanics in mind.

As for ECM, it's only a serious problem when the enemy has far more ECM than you do, and leveling the ECM playing field with the variants will help alleviate imbalances, as a Raven 3L vs. Raven 2X isn't going to be quite the horrendous one-sided curbstomp it otherwise would be.

EDIT: Really, the best solution to ECM is to just nerf it so it's not the insane must-have game-changer that it currently is.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 23 March 2013 - 03:50 PM.


#5 Durant Carlyle

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:50 PM

View PostKaeb Odellas, on 23 March 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

But the Flea needs an edge, otherwise it'll be pretty much useless. What else can you give the lightest mech we're going to see besides speed? I mean, the Raven wasn't designed to be the king of 1 v. 1 light battles, but here we are. Adhering rigidly to the tabletop and fluff is only going to result in bad gameplay, since none of that was design with first person shooter mechanics in mind.

Actually, no. ECM isn't doing what the tabletop version does, and that's why it's so damned OP. If ECM was restricted to tabletop functionality, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all.

A solid base in tabletop BattleTech is crucial for this game to work. Should it be an exact three-dimensional representation of tabletop play? No. But the current ECM is an example of what you get when you deviate too much from the BattleTech canon. It's turned up to 11 right now, and it needs to be turned down to around 6 or 7 to make it a good thing to have but not necessary for victory. "Can not carry ECM" shouldn't be listed in the weakness column for any 'Mech or variant.

And as far as the Flea goes ... players like me who prefer piloting lights will find a way. We won't need special snowflake quirks to do it, either. Will it be easy? Nope. Will we still do it? You bet your azz. Personally, I like the Spider -- all three variants of it, despite a lot of players declaring it useless. Got me a real nice Kill/Death ratio with it too. I expect I'll be successful in the Flea as well...

#6 Gaan Cathal

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:45 PM

View PostKaeb Odellas, on 22 March 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

-Make Commandos better at sneaking and hiding with mild passive ECM effect.
-Improve Spider JJ ability
-Reduce Raven max armor by 16 pts and give it super sensors that can see farther, target faster, and share all of its targeting data with nearby friendlies
-Fast Fleas GO FAAAAST
-Each variant should have the same max engine size.
-Each variant of an ECM mech should be able to carry ECM.


Couple of minor details, although I do agree with some of it, particularly on engine variation (viable -2X would be lovely).

A: The Raven is actually supposed to have the most armour out of our current lineup. Part of what made the Jenner the Only Light In The Village until the release of ECM was the fact that the combat-variants of the Raven (the -4X and -2x, which are designed for full combat duties) have a restricted engine rating, keeping them (as is 'canon') slower than the Jenner, but the Jenner is capable of carrying full armour, leading to the Jenner having the Raven(-2X/-4X)'s benefits, but not it's own drawbacks.

B: Related to the above, the only Raven we have in game with ECM capability, and the associated 'stick with squad' stuff you're saying is the -3L. The -2X and -4X are supposed to be full combat variants. Turning them into another two ECM mechs won't fix that.

C: You're giving Commandos more ECM capability when they aren't strictly supposed to have any. The problem the Commano has is the same as the Dragon and the Awesome. The advantage is the 5-10 tons they don't cost you compared with their competitors. Currently this, unfortunately, doesn't matter. Implementing tonnage as a matchmaking factor would do better for balancing the lower-weight members of classes (take a Commando over a Raven, upgrade two Awesomes to Stalkers for that tonnage).

D: On the whole, these changes are far more sweeping than we've seen from PGI's 'quirks' system, and so far I think they've been largely on the money in the degree of that.

#7 Sable Dove

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 11:54 PM

My opinion is that the 3L needs a smaller engine to fit with the other Ravens, and the Spiders need vastly improved maneuverability. They should be the most mobile lights, given their lack of firepower and armour.

Commando may need some advantages too, but gotta be careful not to make the 2D into what the 3L is now.

Flea already is about (relatively) high firepower in a fast chassis.

#8 MrRuLZ

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:19 AM

since the 3L update, the 3L isn't that much overpowered now. Well, still a tad compared to other variants, but really less worse than it was.

I especially really agree about the spider, it's air ability should be greatly improved to make it viable.

#9 Yanlowen Cage

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:36 AM

1. Commando vs. Raven not so clear cut.
2. Flea's advantage is that is uber cheap comparitively. Though that does not really have an affect in this game





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