175 replies to this topic

[Kdogg788]

This forum! Too many players that either A: want to pretend its 1990 tabletop battletech and that everything should be dutifully faithful, or B: players who mindlessly whine for this weapon or that to be buffed and nerfed into an endless cyclical merry go round of complaining, rarely asking for legitimate changes. If its not their favorite, it has to be hit with the nerf bat. If its what they runs then it isn't strong enough.

-k

[Rogue Jedi]

I believe a big part of the problem with player retention is that people are expecting a completed game, while it has certainly became more stable the last 2 months, it is far from finished.

I personally think that the download now button should link to a page with a disclaimer something along the lines of:
"you are downloading an early version of the game, there will be problems, if this is unacceptable enter your email address to receive notification when it is finished. if you chose to download please let us know of any bugs you encounter".
also perhaps add a "report problem and quit" option to the in-game esc menu, possibly taking you to a list of known bugs.


when I first started reading the forums I remember reading somewhere that new players would revive a Mech in any weight class. that would have been a great system, they get a mech of their own, preferably with come cbils to outfit it, amount of money depending on the chassis chosen, none for an assault a lot for a light. then earn the additional upgrades by playing. this would help with player retention as the players could try the trial Mechs claim a Mech themselves without spending real money.
If you start playing, try out the trial Mechs and find one you like, then next time you login that Mech is no longer available. you may try the new trial Mechs and not enjoy them, do you spend real money or stop playing until the trial Mechs are reset. if someone stops playing for 2-4 weeks they may forget about the game and not come back.

I suggest at least 6,000,000 (preferably 10,000,000) cbils be given to each new player, enough to buy a Mech of your own, but not to fully outfit a heavy or assult

[TalonOne]

What keeps me from joining back into the Game:

- Extremely long Grind to the first 'Mech. I'm stuck with the Trial Mechs since the Autocannon on the Centurion I bought turned out to be completely useless. Getting the next 'Mech I'd like (Catapult) will take forever and the Trial mechs are completely useless in comparison.
And please, please, forget that argument "duh, they're decent wenn used properly". Maybe, but new players have no Idea how to use them even halfway properly.

- Firing delay on Autocannons and PPCs. It still takes a seemingly random time between fring the weapon and the shot. Makes all of those weapons all but unusuable. Even more frustrating if you don't realize that, buy a ballisticy-heavy 'mech anyways and then you're screwed.

- Heat. Good god.

- Consumables and the like. They scream "pay to win" to me. Not neccessarily gamebreaking but It's a small step to "Gold Ammo" and equally imbalancing garbage.

Edited by TalonOne, 24 March 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[Kain]

They just need to introduce training grounds with Sergeant Unther.

[TravelerTraveler]

I was really frustrated with the "trial mechs" trying to customize them until I realized that I could not and that they weren't "mine" to customize. But they should be, just as runes and masteries are free to edit with each champion in League of Legends. New players should be able to edit their trial mech with the understanding that they won't be keeping the chasis, but are keeping the equipment they purchase.

[DeadlyNerd]

MustrumRidcully, on 24 March 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Does the 1 hour of play consists of 4 or more PvP matches?
Or do you start in a starter region, with neat little quest helpers and tutorial guidance?


We'Re not talking tactics here. We'Re talking basic controls. WASD, this is your mana meter, this is your health bar, click right mouse button for primary, click left mouse button for secondary attack (not sure if WoW had that, but you get the idea, since you're smart.)


Yes, I would enjoy PvE very much. I don't need it, however, and I don't think MW:O noobs need that, even though it could help.

The thing MW:O needs is a PvUI mode - Player vs User Interface. It should be rigged for him to win.



Operative word: TINY
"Oh, there's a control there. I didn't see it because there was a frigging Atlas in my face!

Users don't always intuitive grasp everything on the screen. Partially because they don't even recognize certain elements as part of the UI, instead of just a neat feature.

Do you know what those 6 thingies around your reticule are and what they show?
Did you know you can activate or deactive cockpit lights?
Do you know where the missile bay indicators are on your mech?
You can probably truthfully answer "Yes" to each of these questions.
Can you also say: "I noticed them immediately, and understood what they were for"?

Back in vanilla, there wasn't any help, dnno bout today. MWO is in "vanilla" right now btw.

You had skill boxes that said 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0. Back then, you actually had to place the skill in manually, as in open the spell book and find the new skill. With your view on today's MWO population, 90% of them wouldn't be capable of doing that.

I thought training grounds were rigged for you to win. Guess I was wrong, mechs with stock armor and standing still actually DO NOT let you kill them.

Atlas in your face, straight from the beginning? Now that sounds like a fun new game mode. Not to mention that the minimap is still up even with that giant atlas in your face.
Again, TRAINING GROUNDS. TEST THE MECH BEFORE YOU BLOODY USE IT. COMMON SENSE.You're saying PGI needs to cater to people without common sense? Actually that sounds like a plausible tactic, they'll mindlessly spend more, IF THEY DON'T GET ALIENATED BY LACK OF CONTENT.

Hand holding, is that what you're implying?

I don't even use any of those "thingies" often, those actually are extra features.
Who the hell needs to do that in order to play better?
Press, missile bay doors, look for a change in the cockpit. Hey, it's right in front of me, cool!
I just answered negatively to first 2. What now? I'm a newb? Damn, back to the drawing board.
Oh yes, they're obscuring the screen and thus must be of use for something. Oh I'm sorry, I'm not supposed to think like that. Wait I can do this better :"UGG WAT DEY MEAN, SHINY TINGS, SOMBODY SHOW ME, UGG".
Wait wait wait, not done yet: "UGG NOT KNOW, UGG ANGRY, UGG HATE GAME, UGG SMASH, UGG GO PLAY Call of Duty"

Had to correct my "neanderthal" grammar, how ironic.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 25 March 2013 - 02:38 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Some people brought up voice chat and community building ,and I think that might also be a good point.

Personally, I am not a fan of voice chat. I find it too intrusive, and I could see new players finding it the same way. But that doesn't mean the game shouldn't have the option.

What I definitely think is that the chat system must be overhauled. There must be a general chat that's available in the mech bay/launcher, and ideally also shared during the game. This requires overhauling the chat interface significantly, and probably also overhauling the underlying code (to support multiple chat channels, shared channels and so on.)

[Writer]

Victor Morson, on 23 March 2013 - 03:13 AM, said:

Trial 'mechs are a flawed and stupid system.

We said this over and over and what would happen - killing if not obliterating interest - by forcing people into a flat out inferior 'mech and making them die over and over.

I would be really curious to know how many people drop MC immediately to get out of trial 'mechs (their whole point) versus how many people that just leave the game because of this.

If they had just given people a starting 'mech of their own to hook them into the customization aspects - rather than forcing them to spend time in hideous unfairly designed 'mechs - they would have avoided tons of this.

Quite frankly, the whole greedy trial 'mech system was the wrong way to go about making money and a good way to go about damaging your new player's interest. It should be dropped in favor of starter 'mechs. Perhaps starters could offer a -25% cbill reward for finishing matches, encouraging pilots to upgrade to a new 'mech ASAP. At least then they would be in a 'mech that isn't a huge newbie-punishment device.

EDIT: Seriously not only do they stick newbies in stocks, but they stick them in the WORST stocks. They were giving out a Raven that would explode in two shots at one point! If these people know nothing of MW:O they'll probably assume everyone else bought power. It's a terrible design decision, and has been one of the most flawed things added to them game in it's entire run.

EDIT 2: I really hope stuff like "arm lock" wasn't their attempt to counter why newbie interest falls off. It falls off because, like everyone said it would, you force people into inferior death traps for their first few hours of the game. Nobody is going to get involved in a game where they have to spend hours with the odds stacked against them. It's mind boggling why they thought this would make them money.

When you make a game like this, you have to make a game you'll enjoy playing. When the Devs are running Single heatsink builds it makes question how much they actually play and enjoy the game they make.

[MustrumRidcully]

DeadlyNerd, on 25 March 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

Back in vanilla, there wasn't any help, dnno bout today. MWO is in "vanilla" right now btw.

You had skill boxes that said 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0. Back then, you actually had to place the skill in manually, as in open the spell book and find the new skill. With your view on today's MWO population, 90% of them wouldn't be capable of doing that.

I thought training grounds were rigged for you to win. Guess I was wrong, mechs with stock armor and standing still actually DO NOT let you kill them.

It seems my expression "PvUI" was not sufficiently explained.
It isn't about "winning" against some opposition. It was meant to be about learning controls.

Quote

Again, TRAINING GROUNDS. TEST THE MECH BEFORE YOU BLOODY USE IT. COMMON SENSE.You're saying PGI needs to cater to people without common sense? Actually that sounds like a plausible tactic, they'll mindlessly spend more, IF THEY DON'T GET ALIENATED BY LACK OF CONTENT.

How do you find the Training Grounds?
You have to explore the interface and figure out that the tiny mech icon next to the big, green "LAUNCH" button is actually to switch game modes. Who would have thought? Certainly Mr.NewToMWO, right?

Quote

Hand holding, is that what you're implying?

Yes, exactly. Every frigging new game I play gets me even through the mind-numbing boring standard steps of "Use WASD to control your character" phase. MW:O doesn't.

Quote

Press, missile bay doors, look for a change in the cockpit. Hey, it's right in front of me, cool!
I just answered negatively to first 2. What now? I'm a newb? Damn, back to the drawing board.
Oh yes, they're obscuring the screen and thus must be of use for something. Oh I'm sorry, I'm not supposed to think like that. Wait I can do this better :"UGG WHAT DEY MEAN, SHINY TINGS, SOMEBODY SHOW ME, UGG".

So you're not a new and you still don't know what these "thingies" do. But you believe everything about the UI explains itself to a new player that might have never played a Mechwarrior title before?

Come on, you are trolling me, right. Even if not, I'll try to blend this part of the thread out. If you think that the UI is fine and explains itself, I have to disagree with you. And I know that PGI is at least that far, because they took steps to simplify certain aspects (arm and torso by default are now locked? Throttle Decay is on by default, making the game more FPS like) and hide complexity, and are even contemplating a much better step (3rd person perspective so people don't get so confusing about their torso rotation and movement).

Rhenis, on 25 March 2013 - 02:51 AM, said:

When you make a game like this, you have to make a game you'll enjoy playing. When the Devs are running Single heatsink builds it makes question how much they actually play and enjoy the game they make.

Maybe they are too busy programming it. But the Dev Blogs would indicate that they know and love Battletech and Mechwarrior and really would like a game like this. So... I don't know. It's strange. Maybe they are playing too much amongst each other on test servers so they are rarely exposed to the "cut-throat" environment of competitive PvP?

[Writer]

Maybe if PGI had to deal with Poptarts and boats all day they'd be a little quicker to nerf the 3D.

[Zerberus]

TalonOne, on 24 March 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

What keeps me from joining back into the Game:

No comment on the rest, but RE:this....

TalonOne, on 24 March 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

- Extremely long Grind to the first 'Mech. I'm stuck with the Trial Mechs since the Autocannon on the Centurion I bought turned out to be completely useless. Getting the next 'Mech I'd like (Catapult) will take forever and the Trial mechs are completely useless in comparison.

Beginners get a cadet bonus of about 8 million c-bills total during the first 25 matches, regardless of outcome, and in addition to the cash from playing.  Most come out with I`d guess between 9 and 10 million c-bills (I was at pretty exactly 9 and I suck).  After that they can easily afford most assaults (or grind an extra hour or so for an Atlas D, RS, or D-DC), or buy almost any heavy and trick it out, or 2 mediums, or a tricked out medium and a light, or 2 tricked out lights, or up to 3 stock lights.  They literally have over 3.2 million bills after just 8 matches, even if they were afk /DCed , every match was assault, and every match was a loss.

Pre-cadet bonus, it was a pain, but now you can buy your first mech after like an hour of active play should you so desire, so I don`t really understand where this is coming from....

Edited by Zerberus, 25 March 2013 - 03:28 AM.

[DeadlyNerd]

MustrumRidcully, on 25 March 2013 - 02:56 AM, said:

It seems my expression "PvUI" was not sufficiently explained.
It isn't about "winning" against some opposition. It was meant to be about learning controls.


How do you find the Training Grounds?
You have to explore the interface and figure out that the tiny mech icon next to the big, green "LAUNCH" button is actually to switch game modes. Who would have thought? Certainly Mr.NewToMWO, right?


Yes, exactly. Every frigging new game I play gets me even through the mind-numbing boring standard steps of "Use WASD to control your character" phase. MW:O doesn't.


So you're not a new and you still don't know what these "thingies" do. But you believe everything about the UI explains itself to a new player that might have never played a Mechwarrior title before?

Come on, you are trolling me, right. Even if not, I'll try to blend this part of the thread out. If you think that the UI is fine and explains itself, I have to disagree with you. And I know that PGI is at least that far, because they took steps to simplify certain aspects (arm and torso by default are now locked? Throttle Decay is on by default, making the game more FPS like) and hide complexity, and are even contemplating a much better step (3rd person perspective so people don't get so confusing about their torso rotation and movement).

Training grounds gives NO opposition. You are free to do whatever you like, fire your guns at whomever you like.
If that's not a friendly enough environment for learning the controls, I don't know what is.

http://mwomercs.com/...raining-grounds Should'v linked this earlier, would've saved me a ton of arguments.

So you're saying that your average Joe can't notice that when he sees an enemy, a red diamond pops up on the compass? You must be living in the hillbilly country then. "Hey Joe, what's that red dot there?" "How should I know Moe, it's not there long enough for me to find out. It keeps appearing and disappearing as that big robot is walking past us.".
And I'm back to what I said before. How hard is it to notice that the big red bar on the right of the radar rises and drops as you fire your weapons?

Also, if you'd look at the BF UI, there are numerous indicators on the screen, as to what is where. Almost everyone basically just clicks "join server" and then tries to depict what is what on the screen while getting murdered.
Why he stays you ask? Because there's content to play for.


Look, lets just go your way, PGI should implement a hand holding tutorial and put it into one of their patches saying "We're sorry, but no new content this patch as we were hard at work constructing a tutorial for those that aren't capable of using our website".
See how the community reacts.

[Nightcrept]

I don't know about you guys but I used to run more then a few gaming groups in various games and most beta testers are habitual testers and I am no different in that area. That being said I have tried to get probably 50 players to play this game. All by 2 quit within a week. Considering some of the really bad games we played that is not a good sign. (Navyfield, Astro empires..lol..just to name a few of the lamer ones.)

This is the list of solutions I have came up with from the list of complaints i have compiled.

1. Tutorial
2. A simplistic beginners interface.
The interface needs to have a list of competitive mechs from the various weight classes with weapons grouped and set up for mouse control. i.e. two groups. The new player interface needs to be free of the advertisement style display and have much larger intuitive button layout.
3. A more complex interface to change to when you get more advanced.
4. A lobby.
5. MUCH BETTER PRE-MADE GROUPING CONTROLS.
6. Better weapon variety.
This one drives the lore boy nuts but it is really the only thing I see that can turn this game into a hit. (This is going to get the most QQ so i will stop on this point for now.)
One of the biggest issues that gets brought up to me is that this game feels old. The weapons being the object most talked about. Lets face it they are basically 1950's technology. The most exciting weapons tree being lrm's which are still 1950's technology. The result is that my players have designated this a old mans game.

Why is it a old mans game? The mechs are slow. This makes the aiming easy. It's a futuristic sim which is a plus (not a typical fps) but weapons and tech are old.

So you have the old and I mean old BT weapons in a slow sim.

If players want imagination and innovation in a sim they are sol with this game. And other then that is it a 30 year old retread.
Most players are going to hawken because although it has even less mech options it is more fluid and feels newer.

So my advise is for the devs to break lore and add new and unique content that will make players who are not lore boyz but who know the game go " wow what's that..did you see that cool weapon in mwo". Instead of "oh yeah i played that game it's just another mech warrior game."

[No7]

The posts above give good feedback, but I would also say lack of immersion.

That aspect is coming more and more but it has been lacking for 7 months of open beta.

Very good immersion would make new pilots forgive a lot of beta issues and make them interested in what's to come.

I still remember when I first launched MW2 and was totally blown away. Which is the only reason why I am still here today.

7

[StalaggtIKE]

I know this will be unpopular:

The game should be balanced around the stock builds. In other words the trial mechs should be viable amongst the premades. Changing your stock build should not necessarily equate to being better, but more personalized.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 25 March 2013 - 04:52 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

DeadlyNerd, on 25 March 2013 - 03:32 AM, said:

Training grounds gives NO opposition. You are free to do whatever you like, fire your guns at whomever you like.
If that's not a friendly enough environment for learning the controls, I don't know what is.

See, I am writing a software that people use under no pressure, to design scrap books or "photo books". The software is free, the printed product isn't, and that's where the money lies for us.

And yet, they can stumble to find certain features. As I mentioned before, they can fail to find a button. They might desperately want a certain feature but they don't know whether it exists or where it is.

Are these users dumb?
The answer is: Who cares?
We want their money regardless of whether they are MESA members or dumber than a dead snail.

Our software is IMO not as good as it could be (even though some think it's the best on the market), but at least it's good enough to make a lot of money.

Just putting someone in a static environment where no one shoots at you will not be enough for everyone to learn controls. You guide them through, step by step, control by control.

Sometimes you actually have to tell them that certain features exist. "Oh, by the way, these thingies next to your reticule indicate the status of your weapon group, oh, and if you notice that your missiles take some time to launch, your mech might have missile bay doors that must first be opened, to open them manually press this button and you can see the status her with these yellow-brown lights that are kinda hard to see but now you know what to look for right? But now back to torso twisting and arm movement. If you move your mouse you should see ...yadyadayada"

StalaggtIKE, on 25 March 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

I know this will be unpopular:

The game should be balanced around the stock builds. In other words the trial mechs should be viable amongst the premades. Changing your stock build should not necessarily equate to being better, but more personalized.

Well, you're popular with me.

I want the full mech lab experience. But I think it's quite possible to have that and stock mechs that work. Maybe not even quite as good as someone's super-optimized "boat", but at least so that the mech doesn't overheat after 8 seconds and still deals only 1/2 the damage of someone's custom build.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 25 March 2013 - 04:58 AM.

[Felbombling]

I have had friends try out the game at my request and every single one of them did not stay. I have other friends who I have told to stay away for the time being, until some brutal issues are taken care of. The main reason identified for their leaving was, far and away, being thrown to the wolves in Trial Mechs. Another friend left because his computer couldn't handle MW: O.

Until they create a workable tutorial and match Trial Mechs vs. Trial Mechs for the first 25 matches of a players experience with this game, I think they'll always have a small player base. Eye candy alone will not make people plop down money on a title if the main incentive is to avoid pain... or at least that is the way my group of friends saw it. Some were stunned they didn't get their own Mech to begin with.

[JuiceKeeper]

what i talked to friends its mostly no content available so actualy theres no reason to buy **** loads of mechs when u dont have any missions or anything to try them. Bashing each other is nice but its not enough for long time playing.
i think other things like heat managment etc its just part oflearning curve.

[Teralitha]

The game needs a cinematic intro to help draw the new players into the immersion of the battletech universe.

I remember the first time I watched the MW4 intro.... I knew I was hooked before I even played it.

Edited by Teralitha, 25 March 2013 - 08:22 AM.

[DeadlyNerd]

Let me do this again as you obviously didn't notice the first time.

http://mwomercs.com/...raining-grounds

No one, and I mean absolutely NO ONE, writes hand holding tutorials for each and every feature of his software.
Users have documentation and the "Help" button for those sorts of things.

Also, you can't compare digging through drop menus to searching for something displayed on the screen. It's like comparing the story of Boardwalk Empire to CSI.

As I said earlier, if one is ignorant enough to not run the training grounds to test his controls and the mech, he deserves every single stomping he'll get against veteran players.

Again, think about how the community will react when devs spend 2 weeks doing nothing but constructing a tutorial for those that can't use the site.
You're developing some insignificant software hardly anyone's ever heard about. This is a game based on a well known table top game and a fairly long franchise of games.
Your customers couldn't care less whether you add the button(instead of using the drop menu) for creating a new page in your scrapbook or an option for sorting pictures alphabetically. They paid for a product as it was at the time of when they bought it. Anything you update is just bonus.
MWO has a pay2play model, even if PGI denies that.(Yes, in order to progress you need mech bays, mech bays cost real money)
People expect content updates for something they're funding.
Nobody cares about a tutorial that'll help some newbie, who will then leave the game for something else due to the lack of content.

And lets just take another reference. This time Red Orchestra. That game has the steepest learning curve of them all, yet people are still playing it, and even more are playing the first one than the second one.
Why you wonder?
Because the devs NEVER started to cater to the needs of CoD players and just kept on releasing CONTENT.
The ones that developed the first one were AMATEURS at the time and LESS of them than there is PGI.
They also had an older graphics engine.
You know what they did right? Stuck to their promises of keeping the game as hardcore as possible.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 25 March 2013 - 05:33 AM.