36 replies to this topic

[Vora MacEvedy]

Yeah... I remember reading about two different scenes of the First Wave of the Clan invasion.

One was a FedCom officer (might have been Trell I) answering the batchall of the Falcons and calling them pirates. And then when told they wanted the world, said something about "Better than you have tried, better than you have died." And really pissed them off.

The other was some FRR planet. The Ghost Bears showed up and the lead officer of the defender basically went, "Look I don't know what military size a galaxy is. Just bring everything you got, and we'll do the same." She nearly beat them. (Serves them right for landing on a desert world where the group was training for months in desert fighting tactics.)

[Gherrek]

Generally the IS always outnumbered the Clans in a stand up slugging match because of the clan's bidding process. They would ask the defenders what they had and find out what they faced and then put it to their Star comanders etc who could achive the objective with the least possible forces.

That and in the board game the BV of clan mechs was so much higher than IS ones that you was always outnumbered, well at least with earlier levels of tech you was.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Skylarr, on 01 June 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

I hear allot of Clanner say allot of thing about hw better the Clans are. There is not politics in the Clans. The Clans believe in being honest. The Clans love a fair fight.

I like the Clans, I am thinking about joining Ghost Bears. But, I strongly disagree with how they invaded. They sceemed with Comstart to find out intell about every planet they were invading. In exchange for the Intell Comstar would run each world for the Clans.

ComStar then gave the Clans full intell about every unit on every planet. Unit sizes, Quality of Mechwarriors and types of Mechs.

When the Clans invaded a world they would issue a batchall. Not an explination of who they were and their rules of engagement or how they conduct warfare. In the Bachal the Clans did say hw many MEchs were attacking and maybe even gave Mechnames. So, How was this a fair fight?

Uh what are you on about? The Clans declare a batchall & ask for the unit size & strength of the defenders to match them as fairly as possible.



Clan Wolf Sourcebook - Pg.31

This was noted by Shin Yodama:

Quote

In thinking of his life, everything before the invasion seemed faded and unreal like early holodramas and ancient newsreels. The invaders were, in many ways, the most honorable of foes. Again and again, they tried to match their forces to ours so that we would not lose too much face, even in defeat.

Lethal Heritage - Pg.161 (this is a pdf & it counts the cover as page 1 so it might possibly be 162 or 163)


Oh as promised, the Grand Council exchange between the Falcons & the Vipers.

Quote

Declaration of Honor

[Loremaster Kael Pershaw]: The Council recognizes saKhan Nicole Hoskins of the Steel Vipers.

[saKhan Nicole Hoskins]: It pains me to hear not one, but several Khans argue in favor of the dezgra warriors who slaughtered honorable MechWarriors and Elementals sight unseen rather than face them in single combat. How far have you all fallen that you would defend such practices? I have seen record of the day when Khan Weaver’s demand for the censure of the Wolves for their excessive artillery use could count on broad support in this Council. And that incident did not include the wholesale slaughter of most of a Cluster!

[saKhan Samantha Clees]: Does saKhan Hoskins suggest that the Viper Touman is unfamiliar with the Arrow IV system, or the Naga OmniMech? Perhaps she is unaware that the Huey was developed in response to a requirement set forth by the Great Founder himself? I did not realize the education system of the Steel Viper had become this feeble, but perhaps the Hoskins line has become unable to maintain long-term memory. Did the saKhan forget the damage inflicted to her Clan on Tukayyid? Did she forget the damage suffered by all the Clans at the hands of the Inner Sphere armies during the Invasion? The Steel Vipers so rarely faced them, the instances should be easy to memorize.

[Hoskins]: What has addled your mind that you would remark upon their battlefield utility, with battles against Spheriods as evidence of said utility? Why is the barbarism of their methods no longer an example of what to avoid, and instead an example of what to emulate? When have such tactics become something to admire?

[Khan Ariel Sukorov]: SaKhan, it is a foolish Warrior who fails to adapt to their enemy.

[Hoskins]: Foolish? Is it foolish to select a course based on honor instead of utility? Why do we then shun orbital bombardment and nuclear weaponry? Why have BattleMechs at all? Would you have us rather do battles by proxy, sending mindless robots to do our every bidding? Is that what we must become?

No! I refuse to accept that! I aspire to something greater! The Steel Viper Clan aspires to the true Way of the Clans, the true intent of the Founder when he made the Clans, not this slow perversion back to the very ways that sundered the Star League, and fueled the Pentagon Civil War.

[Clees]: Then you are like a child, blind, seeing only what you choose to see, rather than what is, and what has become.

[Hoskins]: No, Khan Jade Falcon. I have made a declaration. And I will see my words made manifest by the instrument of my strength, and the strength of Clan Steel Viper.

[Clees]: [mutters] More like the mewlings of sibkos.

[Suvorov]: Bargained well and done, child of the Steel Vipers. Loremaster, I move we vote on the issue of censure of Clan Jade Falcon for the tactics they employed on Marshall.

[Khan Brett Andrews]: I second the motion.

—partial Grand Council transcript, 05113069

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 01 June 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[Morgan Kerensky]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 01 June 2012 - 06:03 PM, said:

So if I drop the wet blanket, you'll stop acting like a little child in his treehouse?
I hardly see that happening, that said, my points still stand: he dictates where I should go...rather than me dictating to him, same goes with all here.
And for the record, I don't have a 'section,' and I care not for 'sections,' like all here, I am free to come and go as I please.

First off. Little child in a tree house? What the heck are you on about... I'm tired of reading my favourite subforum and seeing your name pop up and having everyone try and defend what they like about the clans just because you feel the need to come in and be a little child about it. "Boo hoo, clan is OP. Boo hoo, IS should be buffed to compensate. Boo hoo boo hoo boo hoo." That's all your comments ever amount to, and that is quite frankly the most pathetic part(considering you're calling a vast majority of us "children in tree houses")

It's like saying "There should be no cylons in battlestar galactica! They have advanced technology and they always have the edge on the Colonies!"

or, "The Klingons shouldn't be so powerful in Star trek, they're always cloaking and killing people and it's just not fair that the federation doesn't get that too!"


And... No, you are not "stating your opinion," you're insulting anyone who doesn't agree with you and belittling what they like the most in a sci-fi fantasy.

So kindly, please make your response and go, your posts are not constructive and this game nor this forum is being contributed to by your negativity.

[Cyber Carns]

Skylarr, on 01 June 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

The DCMS warrior accepted the challenges because most believe they are modern day Samurai.




MW:O is making allot of lost tech available for use on every Mech. In Battletech history, and in the books, IS forces had 3025 tech when fighting against the Clans. So I can see they would use Zellbringing against you.

I hear allot of Clanner say allot of thing about hw better the Clans are. There is not politics in the Clans. The Clans believe in being honest. The Clans love a fair fight.

I like the Clans, I am thinking about joining Ghost Bears. But, I strongly disagree with how they invaded. They sceemed with Comstart to find out intell about every planet they were invading. In exchange for the Intell Comstar would run each world for the Clans.

ComStar then gave the Clans full intell about every unit on every planet. Unit sizes, Quality of Mechwarriors and types of Mechs.

When the Clans invaded a world they would issue a batchall. Not an explination of who they were and their rules of engagement or how they conduct warfare. In the Bachal the Clans did say hw many MEchs were attacking and maybe even gave Mechnames. So, How was this a fair fight?

I dont think anyone here in the clan section has ever stated that the Clans are perfect. They have their rivalries, politics ie: Wardens vs. Crusaders. The Clans are have their own problems and faults just like the IS has. A lot of people are drawn to the Clans because of their ideals and lore.Are the Clans perfect, by no means are they. They are humans with human faults just like their IS counterparts. Greed, envy, ambitions. So in a sense we are really not so different from the IS. But there are a lot of Clanners that try to uphold and follow their Clans ideals.

[KingCobra]

Sir you can post Zellbrigen till hell freezes over but if there is not a RP version of the game to RP in what good is it all i can hope is that on one account you can have 2 characters a Inner sphere and later on have a Clan character beyond that i don't see much of a RP future in MWO till they have league ladders or PVE.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Morgan Kerensky, on 01 June 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

That's all your comments ever amount to, and that is quite frankly the most pathetic part(considering you're calling a vast majority of us "children in tree houses")

Yes I think I may have gone too far on that one, but it was an undercurrent I was picking up on; reading a lot of posts about how clans can only be played by 'x' type of people, that if 'you' don't like zell, then get out' or 'oh you don't think zell should be in the game? well screw you' which judging by the responses I get, seems to be the norm.

as for 'all I ever comment about' well what does this thread and the dozens of other 'clan honor' and 'zellbriggen' threads prove or do? that's what 'you' guys all only ever comment about, so I fail to see a major difference.

Morgan Kerensky, on 01 June 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

And... No, you are not "stating your opinion," you're insulting anyone who doesn't agree with you

And labeling me a troll despite the points I've made is any different? How can I form a new more positive opinion, if the only responses to my posts are 'you're being negative, go away' do you or anyone else really read them?

Morgan Kerensky, on 01 June 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

So kindly, please make your response and go

how kind...

Morgan Kerensky, on 01 June 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

It's like saying "There should be no cylons in battlestar galactica! They have advanced technology and they always have the edge on the Colonies!"

There seems to be something wrong here; there is a BSG online game and players can play as cylons....but, what is this? Both sides push back and forth?
http://en.board.bigp...ad.php?t=430734
I'm not sure what an 'OP' is in the game...or a lot of the terminology, but the gist sounds about right, the original poster is complaining about high level Cylons rolling a particular server. However the rest of the discussion is even more enlightening; the response by cylon players. The summary of their response was "we win because we fight as a team, a highly coordinated team." I haven't seen any complaints over Cylon tech, rather they win because they are skilled, and even then some of the Cylon posters admit to 'bad days' where they get wiped. Sounds like a balanced game to me, where player skill determines victory, not a factions items that hilariously outrange the other factions items for no game-design reason.
That was 5 minutes of digging into their boards btw, I didn't even know there was a BSG game at all, its F2P so I'm actually tempted to try it.

Morgan Kerensky, on 01 June 2012 - 11:51 PM, said:

or, "The Klingons shouldn't be so powerful in Star trek, they're always cloaking and killing people and it's just not fair that the federation doesn't get that too!"

as for the Klingons in Star Trek Online, sounds like they've been slightly ignored by the devs and most attention being showered on the Federation.
http://forums.startr...ad.php?t=272224
again, this is limited forum diving, so either example may not be 100% accurate of the situation. My point being though, there are players who play Klingons despite being at a bit of disadvantage, also it shows that the Klingons in the game are not the same as the Klingons in the lore.
Notice how both Universes had to sacrifice a bit or some of the lore to balance the game? A lot of people in the clan forums have voiced their negative opinion that when the clans roll out, there will be a mass 'shift' (sorta like the BSO game mentioned above) because clan tech is literally superior. If people do not want to see this happen, and they don't want their faction flooded with munchkin CoD idiots, then the factions must be balanced.
However, as I've said before and will keep saying: Zellbriggen is not the balancer. How many more times do I have to show that Clan VS IS will always result in zell being broken, and the supposed balancer i.e. Zellbriggen, is taken off the table?
RP-ing zellbriggen is fine, and shows how rich CBT can be. Mandated zell will only frustrate the player base, or worse be ignored completely, rendering its existence moot. This may not be what you personally want to here, but that's the truth, and it's been said by more than just me. Game players play to win the game. IF winning the game means ignoring some seemingly arbitrary (to the average player) lore? then players will do that, all the time, without fail.

Edited by Aaron DeChavilier, 02 June 2012 - 07:40 AM.

[Morgan Kerensky]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 02 June 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

Yes I think I may have gone too far on that one, but it was an undercurrent I was picking up on; reading a lot of posts about how clans can only be played by 'x' type of people, that if 'you' don't like zell, then get out' or 'oh you don't think zell should be in the game? well screw you' which judging by the responses I get, seems to be the norm.

If I ever have agreed with you on something, it's that. That is immature but so is retorting the way you do and being rude to everyone else because of it.

Quote

as for 'all I ever comment about' well what does this thread and the dozens of other 'clan honor' and 'zellbriggen' threads prove or do? that's what 'you' guys all only ever comment about, so I fail to see a major difference.

Not sure what you mean. It seems people come into the forum(mostly non-clan players, from what I've observed?) and say "Oh, how can you guys be balanced because clan OP." I've mentioned it in another thread but people don't know how to use the search function 80 % of the time so we get these duplicate threads. And then clan players respond, and then their opinions get attacked by people like you also screaming "Clan OP!"

Quote

And labeling me a troll despite the points I've made is any different? How can I form a new more positive opinion, if the only responses to my posts are 'you're being negative, go away' do you or anyone else really read them?

In truth, no. I don't read your posts in length unless you directly reply to me. Reason being, the first time I had a discussion with you in these sub forums you began being negative as I've mentioned and being disrespectful about Clan's and their lore/tech. I just don't want to spend time reading it, when I can spend that time reading and replying to someone who actually likes the clan's and has common ground.

Quote

There seems to be something wrong here; there is a BSG online game and players can play as cylons....but, what is this? Both sides push back and forth?
http://en.board.bigp...ad.php?t=430734
I'm not sure what an 'OP' is in the game...or a lot of the terminology, but the gist sounds about right, the original poster is complaining about high level Cylons rolling a particular server. However the rest of the discussion is even more enlightening; the response by cylon players. The summary of their response was "we win because we fight as a team, a highly coordinated team." I haven't seen any complaints over Cylon tech, rather they win because they are skilled, and even then some of the Cylon posters admit to 'bad days' where they get wiped. Sounds like a balanced game to me, where player skill determines victory, not a factions items that hilariously outrange the other factions items for no game-design reason.
That was 5 minutes of digging into their boards btw, I didn't even know there was a BSG game at all, its F2P so I'm actually tempted to try it.


as for the Klingons in Star Trek Online, sounds like they've been slightly ignored by the devs and most attention being showered on the Federation.
http://forums.startr...ad.php?t=272224
again, this is limited forum diving, so either example may not be 100% accurate of the situation. My point being though, there are players who play Klingons despite being at a bit of disadvantage, also it shows that the Klingons in the game are not the same as the Klingons in the lore.
Notice how both Universes had to sacrifice a bit or some of the lore to balance the game? A lot of people in the clan forums have voiced their negative opinion that when the clans roll out, there will be a mass 'shift' (sorta like the BSO game mentioned above) because clan tech is literally superior.

I'd like to note that neither of these games are anything close to being what their original universe was like. STO(Star trek) feels like World of warcraft set in space with a hint of star trek wording thrown in here and there.

Don't even get me started on BSG:O... they add in ships and fighters that didn't even exist normally, they were added in to create something more for players to grind and spend money on.... which is totally cool, but if you're looking for a true battlestar experience, there are mods for games out there that do a better job at immersion.

What we(or atleast most of us, I hope?) want is a immersive battletech experience. We're following a live re-telling of the 3049-3050-3051(however long this game lasts!) of one of our favourite sci-fi settings! How crazy is that? Is it wrong for everything to be accurate? PG has put incredible amounts of detail into the cockpits just to further the immersion. And you want to ruin that for people who've been playing the universe for years by completely changing the weapons we're familiar with, essentially making our favourite mechs just re-named innersphere mechs. I don't like it, and I don't blame the rest of the people hoping for clan mechs, for defending their opinions on this either.

Quote

If people do not want to see this happen, and they don't want their faction flooded with munchkin CoD idiots, then the factions must be balanced.
However, as I've said before and will keep saying: Zellbriggen is not the balancer. How many more times do I have to show that Clan VS IS will always result in zell being broken, and the supposed balancer i.e. Zellbriggen, is taken off the table?
RP-ing zellbriggen is fine, and shows how rich CBT can be. Mandated zell will only frustrate the player base, or worse be ignored completely, rendering its existence moot. This may not be what you personally want to here, but that's the truth, and it's been said by more than just me. Game players play to win the game. IF winning the game means ignoring some seemingly arbitrary (to the average player) lore? then players will do that, all the time, without fail.

Ah, yes, but you can mandate and enforce it-- I've posted an explanation for a system I think will work in the... other... zell thread.

This system, coupled with other systems could effectively encourage the closest thing to a non-rp zell as you can get. Hardcore clan players wont lose their immersion, and the sheep will be encouraged to kill innersphere the way true clan warriors would.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

in the words of the elcor from Mass Effect: <conciliatory tone>

Morgan Kerensky, on 02 June 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

[/size]

If I ever have agreed with you on something, it's that. That is immature but so is retorting the way you do and being rude to everyone else because of it.

of course you would

Morgan Kerensky, on 02 June 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Not sure what you mean. It seems people come into the forum(mostly non-clan players, from what I've observed?) and say "Oh, how can you guys be balanced because clan OP." I've mentioned it in another thread but people don't know how to use the search function 80 % of the time so we get these duplicate threads. And then clan players respond, and then their opinions get attacked by people like you also screaming "Clan OP!"

it was a poorly worded way of saying: you can't call me out for being repetitive because other posters here have their points to make and do so over and over again.

I agree on the search function

I can see where you're coming from, and a lot do scream 'clan is OP' but a lot of posters then continue to say why, sometimes their reasoning isn't sound, sometimes it is, I try to approach the issues from a position of a Game Designer trying to make sure the game is fun for everyone cause that's how games survive and more importantly grow. I've seen many video games and tabletop games come to the same problem, of how to balance a particular faction's stats, and unfortunately, many games have done it better than CBT.

Morgan Kerensky, on 02 June 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

In truth, no. I don't read your posts in length unless you directly reply to me. Reason being, the first time I had a discussion with you in these sub forums you began being negative as I've mentioned and being disrespectful about Clan's and their lore/tech. I just don't want to spend time reading it, when I can spend that time reading and replying to someone who actually likes the clan's and has common ground.

That's fair, it's not always easy to read the posts of someone who doesn't agree with your views, but it can be helpful in two very important ways: reading the opposite viewpoint can reinforce and clarify way you like what you like OR can show what you like a different light and maybe get you to think a little differently. I try to read every post in a thread, especially someone like Winson's for those exact reasons.

Morgan Kerensky, on 02 June 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

I'd like to note that neither of these games are anything close to being what their original universe was like. STO(Star trek) feels like World of warcraft set in space with a hint of star trek wording thrown in here and there.

Don't even get me started on BSG:O... they add in ships and fighters that didn't even exist normally, they were added in to create something more for players to grind and spend money on.... which is totally cool, but if you're looking for a true battlestar experience, there are mods for games out there that do a better job at immersion.

I started to feel that you may have played/enjoyed BSG because of the reference. But think about it critically, could a game map over 1:1 the feeling of BSG? it has to work for everyone in order for it to be fun, I understand that sacrifices have to be made to a lore between translations because the mediums are different. There's a difference between a comic and a movie, a movie and a book, and all of the above and a video game.

Morgan Kerensky, on 02 June 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

What we(or atleast most of us, I hope?) want is a immersive battletech experience. We're following a live re-telling of the 3049-3050-3051(however long this game lasts!) of one of our favourite sci-fi settings! How crazy is that? Is it wrong for everything to be accurate?

its not wrong to want to be accurate, but after so many games and their hype, I'm very cynical that translation will survive 1:1 and still be fun, that way when a game is done well I'm genuinely impressed. My concern, is that it will be too accurate, and certain things that are broken or unbalanced will be brought over again for the umpteenth time. Remember, no game system is perfect, no lore was written by a supreme being, there are errors, there are bad calls during development.

Morgan Kerensky, on 02 June 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

PG has put incredible amounts of detail into the cockpits just to further the immersion. And you want to ruin that for people who've been playing the universe for years by completely changing the weapons we're familiar with, essentially making our favourite mechs just re-named innersphere mechs. I don't like it, and I don't blame the rest of the people hoping for clan mechs, for defending their opinions on this either.
[size=4]

I never said completely; fiddling with the numbers about an ERPPC never changes the fact that its an ERPPC, and an ERPPC has certain expectations. What I don't understand is; games get tweaked all the time, items buffed/nerfed in a constant cycle during at least the initial launch months, so why are so many here treating like the Apocalypse...its going to happen. Whether or not its massive buffs, or minor, they do and will happen.

That said, again you misinterpret me, then again I generally have failed to provide an example of what i mean, but I dunno if i have the space; Caveman started an awesome thread not too long ago about this idea, i'll post it there if warranted.

Morgan Kerensky, on 02 June 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Ah, yes, but you can mandate and enforce it-- I've posted an explanation for a system I think will work in the... other... zell thread.

This system, coupled with other systems could effectively encourage the closest thing to a non-rp zell as you can get. Hardcore clan players wont lose their immersion, and the sheep will be encouraged to kill innersphere the way true clan warriors would.

I get that too, I really understand, and your ideas are not without merit. But I've said over and over again, that against the IS, zell get's thrown out of the window in a heartbeat because it's in the IS best interest to not fight like clans due to the tech-gap. Something's gotta give, and my way relies on stat tweaks.

[Morgan Kerensky]

I'm glad your posts have taken a more respectful turn. Thank you, keep it up.

[OfTheDark]

Morgan Kerensky, on 02 June 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

I'm glad your posts have taken a more respectful turn. Thank you, keep it up.

2nded

Also I don't really believe balance will be a problem that Zellbrigen is the answer to. There has to be balance of some kind even in IS vs. IS fights. 4 Altases (Atlasi?) vs. 4 Commandos is not a balanced match (oversimplified example, yes, but you get the idea). There will have to be balancing not just based on tonnage or even disparate weight class. Clan tech will be an extentsion of this and (hopefully) balanced vs. IS with or withou Zell.

This brings me back to (not trying to say my idea is the ultimate answer or even original) Clans self-policing themselves. You're going to have people who want to play Clan for the tech boost (which will probably disappear anyway once it's disseminated to the IS as the developers have said it will be) and people who want to play Clans RPing Zell. They aren't going to mix. It would arguably be better to have Clan groups that RP it where you can be kicked out by fellow Clan members for not following it and Clans where it is more lax so people won't be getting on each other's nerves.

[NagaoftheWards]

To ask the spheroids to stick to their designated threads is like asking them to abide by zellbrigen, they would find a way to do what they want under their own justification. Anyway, to each warrior their own honor, to fight without regard is to fall to their level. Honor the ways and fall with honor and dignity, that is all we can ask for. I will say that at Kuritan warriors have a grasp on honor, and plan to issue challenges the minute the clans show up in MWO. Should they disregard my challenge, so much the better. As a recon pilot, fighting heavies and assaults on the field of battle may be within our honorable ways, but it does not make it any easier.

[OfTheDark]

Personally I don't have any problem with IS posting in here. It's just a lot of them (no not all) simply devolve into "Clan is OP" rants...


I want some kind of implementation of Zellbrigen I just worry about some kind of honour system hard-coded into the game. If my Warhawk challenges a Banshee and I see 3 Catapults lining up shots on me from higher ground I don't want to be bound, by the game programming itself, to have to wait until 90 LRMs land on my head to begin firing on them or expect the rest of my star to jump in...

[LordDeathStrike]

the only way clans vs is works, is if clans are forced to use zell, their weapons shoot 25% farther, their armor is 33% better, their double heat sinks have no drawback (is doubles take up 3 crits) they have omni hard points so will all be boats or er long range weapons.

to counter the obvious tech exploits that will ensue, clans need to be forced to be unable to fire weapons until hit, at which point they can shoot the guys that hit them, but the clanners buddy still has to wait to be hit himself. dont worry, we will hit you all eventually, just wait your turn. if impatient you can always step into a missile salvo.

[Rejarial Galatan]

actually, the instant the suspicion of dishonorable tactics arises the Zellbrigen goes by way of the do-do. Also, most Clans only enforce this on a Clan on Clan basis and do not consider it valid for use against the freebirths of the IS. Especially as they view those of Free Born nature to be less than equal in the eyes of the Clan and to be a dishonor to the battlemech to have them in the cockpit in the first place.

[LordDeathStrike]

Rejarial Galatan, on 02 June 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

actually, the instant the suspicion of dishonorable tactics arises the Zellbrigen goes by way of the do-do. Also, most Clans only enforce this on a Clan on Clan basis and do not consider it valid for use against the freebirths of the IS. Especially as they view those of Free Born nature to be less than equal in the eyes of the Clan and to be a dishonor to the battlemech to have them in the cockpit in the first place.

and to balance the broken clan tech of table top, you have to enforce zel in all fights. or take away clan tech and let clanners use the same gear as IS then they can fight however they want. otherwise most of the people playing clans will be doing so just to cheat (get 25% longer range 33% better armor and double heat sinks with no drawback).

those are your 2 options, enforced zel, or equal tech. since the game is taking Q's from table top, ild say enforced zel is more likely.

[OfTheDark]

But Zellbrigen doesn't balance things out. The primary effect (as most people seem to think) would be one on one fights which is exactly where the IS suffers. I'm not saying IS auto-loses but because of the oft lamented tech difference they will always be at the disadvantage in one on ones, they almost have to break Zell to have a chance.

And what, then, happens when Clan tech becomes availble to the IS too? Will it happen quick enough that balance won't be a problem? Will IS technology just become obsolete once Clan tech is so readily availble?

Yes I want to play Clans because I like the tech. I also want to play them because of what and who they are. I do think Clan tech needs to be balanced I just don't think that Zell is the way to do it. Assuming I can join a Clan when they are availble I plan to play by Zell wether it's forced or not but that includes only playing by Zell when my enemy does too.

Even if some way to code Zell into the program itself is done there will always be some way to exploit it and there will always be power-gaming players who do.