62 replies to this topic

[Monkeystador]

This is a scenario for a hardcore community warfare mode.


Some of you might played EVE Online. There is a saying: "don't take out more than you can afford to lose". That single line reflects the experience of a game where you can actually lose stuff. Sounds tough but is very rewarding for many players.

I would love to see something similar here in MWO. Like a hardcore mode where you can drop with the chance of higher rewards and the chance to loose your mech.

Some suggestions:
* mechs can be switched to hardcore but not back
* mechs can be insured. ( will give you back a fraction if it is a total loss ) Different insurances are possible depending on the scenario
* reward for victory is higher: the wreckage's of enemies can be salvaged.
* retreat to evacuation point is possible
* depending on the scenario a mech pilot capture is possible. Ransom has to be paid. Mech pilots don't die but can be injured as well. Healing would be necessary. Injured pilots are out for a while. Naturally on a few hours to mostly a day.
* map selection
* selectable tonnage limits enforced by server.
* in game merc corps with corp accounts
* different missions like : Assault - Opponent has favourable position at the start: Defend - defend a destroyable strategic target ; Conquer - a strategic target has to be secured for a while to achive the objective ; Raid - attackers deploy shortly after defender at a random map entry point, far enough form enemy of course.
* Challenges end with either all mechs die, escape or timer run out ( timer is weird but necessary )
* Reinforcements after a certain amount of time a new wave of reinforcements can enter the last battlefield. #1
*mech in field repair and rearming ( units would commit some extra resources which then are applied if the units stays on the goal for a prolonged timeframe )

Design for a general goal based gameplay - usable by the above described

#1 The winner would claim salvage by default. After a previously determined reinforcement timer a new force could be dropped. This could be done to claim salvage and increase the chance of fallen mechwarriors to be rescued. There is a possibility for a prolonged war of attrition in this. Although there has to be a limiting factor for reinforcements to be available. Units would have to be stationed or committed before dropping for a mission. Units are locked to a certain goal/area for a while. This could simulate stationing of units.
Let me explore this some more:
If the committing is done with a player dialog where a GOAL can be selected freely with a ID like registeredmerccorpname/goalname then you have a simple yet powerful tool to implements game play on this.
Lets say the locking process works like this:

Parameters for locking:
1. Prelude time - a time the units needs to commit on a goal.
2. Lock time - the time a unit is committed to a goal. In this timeframe the unit can be challenged on that goal.
3. Unlocktime - is equal to travel time + a percentage of the lock time.
4. Challenge time: a time/timeframe when events can take place.

Explanation and Examples:
Prelude time: generally the design could have a minimum travel time. If the game has more meta gameplay to offer, travel time could be adjusted accordingly depending on the goal.
Lock Time: This could be a merc corps time it is commited to the a goal. Like defending an outpost or counting as ready to fight in a bigger army units. Generally alot can be imagined here.
Unlocktime: like traveltime, just add some factor. Units that would have to pack up from defending a planet take additional time. Units that just do a raid need less additional time.
Challenge time: This is needed to account for reality. It forces people to only be able to challenge the goal at the given time. Its weird but its needed.

With this just a template for a goal driven game feature. Alot can be done with it. In the examples i listed, its easy to see, that a IS warfare could be build on top of it. But its easily possible to build other things like a Solaris with it.



If you find grammar and spelling errors you can keep them. I wont go beyond a draft for my suggestions.

[Mercules]

Good luck... the community couldn't even handle having to pay repairs on their mechs. I hope someday Repair and Reload may come back.

[xenoglyph]

Way before closed beta I posted a similar idea, and others before me had the same idea. I would love a hardcore mode, but it should probably be on it's own server.

One of the things that made early Ultima Online so awesome was the risk involved.

[Adridos]

That would be a hardcore Battletech game.

But that would be closer to lore and 90% of the people would call out on PGI for catering to the community of 2 people and that the game will fail and that they are stupid and slow and power-hungry, pervetrs, that they eat children and so on...

[Exoth3rmic]

For waging a declared campaign in CW against another house/clan over specific territory any form of hardcore with asset loss/removal/pilot attrition would be very inviting to most people who play the game more than a little seriously.

Even if the assets weren't lost, but became "incapacitated" for the remainder of the campaign until a victor was chosen that would satisfy your requirements for a more "hardcore" mode.

I still play a lot of eve myself and I do not think that there's much parity between the cost/effort of getting any particular ship in Eve and the cost/effort of getting a mech in MWO.

There are also vastly different income streams in Eve and ways of generating the required isk to get a ship; here there is only mech on mech combat. More 'fights' in eve end up with someone/a fleet escaping than they do in actual killmails/destruction of assets. In MWO someone would always lose - which would make people very glum in the long term.

Edited by Exoth3rmic, 26 March 2013 - 04:49 AM.

[Anjian]

When you allow for game losses, you need a mechanism for players to regain their money back. This usually means grinding PvE mission until they get all their money back. EVE has its mining and agent missions. Even games that feature faction warfare like Chromehounds had plenty of PvE missions to grind to level up and get your money to build your mechs.

Such content creation is far too sparse in this game.

[Mercules]

Exoth3rmic, on 26 March 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Even if the assets weren't lost, but became "incapacitated" for the remainder of the campaign until a victor was chosen that would satisfy your requirements for a more "hardcore" mode.

This would make for a very good way to handle it. You don't lose the mech, but you can't use it during a series of matches. Put in the Repair and Reload costs so that even if you keep your mech but all the weapons were blown off you still have a consequence. With decently matched teams where you get those close games where it is 6-8 or so there would be some interesting games played.

I wonder if people would buy 4 of the same mech assuming you could bring 4 of them into that "match style" or if they would have a variety?

[Kdogg788]

I highly doubt you would ever see a form of permanent equipment loss in this game considering players have paid for mechs with MC (real world currency). Temporary lock might sound good at first, but if someone has a limited mech stable it would really suck for them, and force them to stop playing. To the high level, competitive player with tons of good machines, this is a good idea. To most players who are just fighting for fun, this would handcuff them to the point of not wanting to continue, especially given the cost of mechs. Not to be a downer, but I can't see this happening.

-k

[Agent of Change]

Mercules, on 26 March 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

Good luck... the community couldn't even handle having to pay repairs on their mechs. I hope someday Repair and Reload may come back.

Sadly consequences are too much for many people. There was an answer in Ask-the-devs a whiles back saying the aren't planning on putting it back in because it didn't add anything.

As to the OP, I would play the hell out of that.

[Mercules]

Agent of Change, on 26 March 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Sadly consequences are too much for many people. There was an answer in Ask-the-devs a whiles back saying the aren't planning on putting it back in because it didn't add anything.

As to the OP, I would play the hell out of that.

Actually, that was kinda the game I thought me might be getting... thus the investment.

[Kdogg788]

Agent of Change, on 26 March 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Sadly consequences are too much for many people. There was an answer in Ask-the-devs a whiles back saying the aren't planning on putting it back in because it didn't add anything.

As to the OP, I would play the hell out of that.

In a game where actual investment in money is made and equipment can take a good amount of time to obtain, it doesn't make sense to lose it over a 30 second firefight. I doubt people are afraid of consequences per say, but more and rightfully so, realistic in not wanting an investment in time and money to instantly evaporate. This isn't the Poker Room at Foxwoods. Most players came to have fun with the mech stable they've built, not gamble it all away. There will be a tiny sub-faction of the game that will want this, but the general player will not be into it. It's like the game Evony where you'd spend a couple weeks building your little town, only to see it wiped off the map in five minutes. Insta-Quit. A mode like this would have to be played with alternative assets, and not a player's main mech base.

-k

[Vassago Rain]

Eve has insurance.

[Kdogg788]

Vassago Rain, on 26 March 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Eve has insurance.

So does Evony, but you have to pay for it, in real world money, not in game currency.

If I'm going to gamble mechs, I want to win money, as in actual Dollars in hand, not game salvage, and that would involve a gambling system, which likely wouldn't be possible.

-k

[KinLuu]

Not going to happen.

[vvvvvvvvvv]

Monkeystador, on 26 March 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

This is a scenario for a hardcore community warfare mode.


Some of you might played EVE Online. There is a saying: "don't take out more than you can afford to lose". That single line reflects the experience of a game where you can actually lose stuff. Sounds tough but is very rewarding for many players.

I would love to see something similar here in MWO. Like a hardcore mode where you can drop with the chance of higher rewards and the chance to loose your mech.

Some suggestions:
* mechs can be switched to hardcore but not back
* mechs can be insured. ( will give you back a fraction if it is a total loss ) Different insurances are possible depending on the scenario
* reward for victory is higher: the wreckage's of enemies can be salvaged.
* retreat to evacuation point is possible
* depending on the scenario a mech pilot capture is possible. Ransom has to be paid. Mech pilots don't die but can be injured as well. Healing would be necessary. Injured pilots are out for a while. Naturally on a few hours to mostly a day.
* map selection
* selectable tonnage limits enforced by server.
* in game merc corps with corp accounts
* different missions like : Assault - Opponent has favourable position at the start: Defend - defend a destroyable strategic target ; Conquer - a strategic target has to be secured for a while to achive the objective ; Raid - attackers deploy shortly after defender at a random map entry point, far enough form enemy of course.
* Challenges end with either all mechs die, escape or timer run out ( timer is weird but necessary )
* Reinforcements after a certain amount of time a new wave of reinforcements can enter the last battlefield. #1
*mech in field repair and rearming ( units would commit some extra resources which then are applied if the units stays on the goal for a prolonged timeframe )

Design for a general goal based gameplay - usable by the above described

#1 The winner would claim salvage by default. After a previously determined reinforcement timer a new force could be dropped. This could be done to claim salvage and increase the chance of fallen mechwarriors to be rescued. There is a possibility for a prolonged war of attrition in this. Although there has to be a limiting factor for reinforcements to be available. Units would have to be stationed or committed before dropping for a mission. Units are locked to a certain goal/area for a while. This could simulate stationing of units.
Let me explore this some more:
If the committing is done with a player dialog where a GOAL can be selected freely with a ID like registeredmerccorpname/goalname then you have a simple yet powerful tool to implements game play on this.
Lets say the locking process works like this:

Parameters for locking:
1. Prelude time - a time the units needs to commit on a goal.
2. Lock time - the time a unit is committed to a goal. In this timeframe the unit can be challenged on that goal.
3. Unlocktime - is equal to travel time + a percentage of the lock time.
4. Challenge time: a time/timeframe when events can take place.

Explanation and Examples:
Prelude time: generally the design could have a minimum travel time. If the game has more meta gameplay to offer, travel time could be adjusted accordingly depending on the goal.
Lock Time: This could be a merc corps time it is commited to the a goal. Like defending an outpost or counting as ready to fight in a bigger army units. Generally alot can be imagined here.
Unlocktime: like traveltime, just add some factor. Units that would have to pack up from defending a planet take additional time. Units that just do a raid need less additional time.
Challenge time: This is needed to account for reality. It forces people to only be able to challenge the goal at the given time. Its weird but its needed.

With this just a template for a goal driven game feature. Alot can be done with it. In the examples i listed, its easy to see, that a IS warfare could be build on top of it. But its easily possible to build other things like a Solaris with it.



If you find grammar and spelling errors you can keep them. I wont go beyond a draft for my suggestions.

KinLuu, on 26 March 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

Not going to happen.

KinLuu, on 26 March 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

Not going to happen.

[Corwin Vickers]

F that mech stuff.

Real Death is the only way to go. How many cat pilots would there be if when you lost your cockpit you lost your account.

How many people would be face hugging anything. It would be sniper warrior online.

Match timers would regularly time out.

More people would run stock mechs.

It would be a different world.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

would be cool.

but they would try to monitize too hard and would just screw it up.

besides, they don't want to cater to us hardcore fans... they want a nonexistant casual player base.

[Vassago Rain]

Corwin Vickers, on 26 March 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

F that mech stuff.

Real Death is the only way to go. How many cat pilots would there be if when you lost your cockpit you lost your account.

How many people would be face hugging anything. It would be sniper warrior online.

Match timers would regularly time out.

More people would run stock mechs.

It would be a different world.

Sounds pretty terrible for a videogame.

[Mercules]

Vassago Rain, on 26 March 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

Sounds pretty terrible for a videogame.

Yes... It does....

Please don't make me agree with Vassago Rain twice in one day.

[Kdogg788]

Staying by the OOB would be the way to go. That way you could boot out of bounds. If there is a trial mech system here, that would be the way to run your mechs. Wouldn't matter if how many you lost. There'd be a massive discrepancy between people hiding in expensive mechs next to the OOB and those running trials like cannon fodder in WW1.

-k