32 replies to this topic

[Vapor Trail]

Tor6, on 24 March 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

Hex-PPC stalkers should definitely NOT get to make a 'called shot' every minute.

Six C-ER PPCs is 36 tons, which is a 7ton 7 crit Targcomp, effectively an additional ton and crit per weapon, with an additional ton and crit. And that must be slotted as a single unit.

Even an assault omni is going to have serious heat issues firing that. 90 heat is an instant shutdown.

Though 90 damage to a called location without actually aiming is nothing to sneeze at.

I agree some other implementation has to be found that doesn't allow an auto-hit alpha strike. Hexapeds are problematic with IS tech... I'm picturing an assault class Hex-Pulse boat with TC.

I used to build similar custom mechs for TT.

Just off the top of my head:

100ton Omni chassis.
300 XL engine (9.5 tons). 3 ton cockpit, 3 ton gyro, 10 ton internal structure. 19.5 tons of standard armor.

==> 55 tons of pod space, 47 crits available.

Five C-LPLs. (30 tons, 10 crits)
Targeting computer (6 tons, 6 crits)
16 extra double heat sinks (16 tons. 28 crits (2 DHS go to engine))

Leaves 3 tons and three criticals. ECM, Active Probe, and TAG? Or a Streak 4 and ammo?

Edited by Vapor Trail, 24 March 2013 - 03:19 AM.

[Leimrey]

How about PGi makes the Targeting Computer do what it did in MW3: provide you with a lead indicator for ballistic weapons and PPCs and give you the ability to select which body part you want to aim at? This might sound imbalanced at first, but remember that TCs are countered by ECM since you need to lock onto the target and probably get his targeting information (which takes quite a while if the enemy is covered by ECM and you're within the range to get a lock on him) first.

I like this idea, because it would make the currently useless BAP much, MUCH better, since it would allow you to use the TC at longer ranges, which would help tremendously on large maps. This would also make the Target Info Gathering and Advanced Sensor Range modules much more useful, which is a very good thing, since it would make them more viable when compared to the current and future consumables like coolant or airstrikes.

This TC implementation would also add another layer to ECM and ecm countering methods, as now you would have the incentive to counter it even when not boating missiles. Direct fire mechs with TAG? More likely than you think. I think even PPC boats would carry a TAG in this situation, since they would still need to shoot their target by leading manually, before being able to use their TC and even then it would provide them only with a 4 second window.

And before anyone starts using the "l2 play" or "l2 lead, noob" arguments: the main feature of the targeting computer is its ability to provide a lead indicator for a specific body part which can be chosen by the user (MW3 used the numpad for this purpose and it was very easy to quickly configure the TC to provide a lead indicator for the desired body part even in the heat of battle). I have little problems hitting lights going at max speed with my PPCs at medium ranges (within the 270-400m pocket), hitting them precisely in the leg or that XL carrying side torso is a different matter.

Oh, forgot to add: the TC should also use TT rules when it comes to crits and weight, so it would be a significant investment, especially if we consider additional stuff like TAG and BAP.

Edited by Leimrey, 24 March 2013 - 03:59 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Are we talking about this Targeting Computer?

If I'm guessing right, the lighter Clan one will be introduced first (Some of the Clan Mechs have prime variants mounting this).

All it has to do is exactly what it does in MW3, nothing more and nothing less.

Quote

Targeting Computer: A valuable unit, allowing you to target specific body locations, and provides an aiming circle to help target moving enemies. Especially useful for ballistic and long range missile weapons, it's value to energy based attacks is less. Lasers reach the target almost instantly, so there is no need to lead a moving target. Machine guns, too, with their limited range and fast projectiles usually do not require additional support for aiming and firing. It's effectiveness is severely limited by the use of the ECM suite, rendering the aiming circle choppy and unstable.

Edited by General Taskeen, 24 March 2013 - 04:05 AM.

[Shae Starfyre]

Just cut to the chase, and have auto lock and convergence for 3rd Person View implementation.

[Panthead]

General Taskeen, on 24 March 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

Are we talking about this Targeting Computer?

If I'm guessing right, the lighter Clan one will be introduced first (Some of the Clan Mechs have prime variants mounting this).

All it has to do is exactly what it does in MW3, nothing more and nothing less.

[/font]

if we are worried about timeline vs tech then we need to strip all ER weapons, XL engines ans the Ultra AC/5. None of that came up til we encountered clan tech.

What we have now is a timeline/story massacre, don't get me wrong I love the tech I just hate when people bring up the timeline to justify stuff here.

[General Taskeen]

Panthead, on 24 March 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

if we are worried about timeline vs tech then we need to strip all ER weapons, XL engines ans the Ultra AC/5. None of that came up til we encountered clan tech.

What we have now is a timeline/story massacre, don't get me wrong I love the tech I just hate when people bring up the timeline to justify stuff here.

No, what I am saying is that-> PGI adds Mechs based off Record Sheets. And some of the MAIN Clan Mechs Mount Clan Targeting Computers on those record sheets (prime variants). So it may end up the same way they added an Atlas D-DC, they had to add the Command Console, but it is dead weight currently until implemented, or it will be implemented right out of the box.

Everyone knows they are going to add Clan Mechs, so that's why I am making an educated guess as to when the first 'version' of the Targeting Computer will be implemented.

A good example is the famous Masakari: http://goodsects.got...White_White.png

Edited by General Taskeen, 24 March 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[Zaptruder]

I'd be happy with:

1. A leading circle for ballistics/PPC/deadfire missle weaponry.
2. Slowing down the reticle when it's over a target (to instant fire weapons)
3. Decreased target acquisition time for lock ons, and increased target retention.

I mean... this is a weighty system. It should provide concrete advantages; but it shouldn't be so utterly overpowered so as to necessitate its use. Those things I mention pretty much go in line with what you'd expect out of a targeting computer, are useful, but can be compensated for with a higher skill player.

Edited by Zaptruder, 24 March 2013 - 05:33 AM.

[Team Leader]

Erasus Magnus, on 23 March 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

i ask again, why should the tc prolong the time for a weapon to lock on?
if at all, it should REDUCE it. and we already have that, its called BAP.
second, why should the tc mess around with lock on type weapons (streaks, lrms) at all? the TC in tt only works fir direct fire weapons, NOT for srms,ssrms ,mrms and lrms.

howevver, i think it actually would be pretty huge if it would provide convergence adjustments, like you suggested.

i`d support that. it could be well another module for that single purpose.

Oh, oops. Yeah that's what I mean. Like, increasing the lock on speed, not how long it takes to lock on haha my bad

[Josef Nader]

TC shouldn't affect non-direct fire weapons. Lockons should be completely unaffected.

Other than that, it's a neat suggestion.

[Team Leader]

Josef Nader, on 24 March 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

TC shouldn't affect non-direct fire weapons. Lockons should be completely unaffected.

Other than that, it's a neat suggestion.

Guess you're right. The convergence thing was really my biggest point lol but I would also like the variant ID bonus showing up too!

[Khanublikhan]

What if a targeting computer allowed you to:-

• R target multiple enemies at once and tag them (F1, F2, F3, F4) to represent an entire enemy lance.
  
• The order in which you pressed represented your target priority (F1 = greatest threat, to F4, least threat / ignore).

Edited by Khanublikhan, 24 March 2013 - 09:43 AM.

[Vahnn]

Don't touch lock-on times, and leave advanced team info sharing to the Command Console.

I like the idea of forcing all weapons to converge at your target's current range. This would make it possible to lead targets with SRMs at distances approaching their maximum range.

But most importantly, the TC should superimpose the same info from the top-right of your onto your target. Perhaps a simple wire frame outline of each component of the enemy mech, color-coded to represent the amount of damage to the armor. After maintaining a lock for a number of seconds, perhaps it could place a small, but noticeable dot in each component section, 1 for each active weapon in that section. If the weapon is destroyed, due to critical damage, overheating, ammo explosions, etc., the dot will disappear.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Panthead, on 24 March 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

if we are worried about timeline vs tech then we need to strip all ER weapons, XL engines ans the Ultra AC/5. None of that came up til we encountered clan tech.

What we have now is a timeline/story massacre, don't get me wrong I love the tech I just hate when people bring up the timeline to justify stuff here.

Actually if you look at the Techmanual, most 'lost' tech started coming back in the 3030's and 3040's. The Helm memory core was recovered prior to the 4th Succession War, and limited amounts of recovered tech had stated to trickle out around the time of the War of 3039. Yes it was super rare, which is why the majority of units fighting agains the Clans were using 3025 tech, but it did exist. Then the Clans came and refit kits became the new stimulus package for the Free Worlds League economy .