67 replies to this topic

[Cab]

[N0ni]

Radko, on 24 March 2013 - 11:01 PM, said:

To anyone who says "I use them and they work":

Use nothing but flamers in testing grounds. Put 9 of them in your hunchback and see what they can do.

Try killing the stock commando with them.

I ran a similar test just for the sake of testing (When the Training Grounds came out).
1 Flamer (used my C1 for this test since it already had flamers on it), Atlas CT, Frozen City.

If i remember correctly it took 4 minutes to strip the armor, another 3:30 minutes to kill it.

Will go back to confirm this, will edit if necessary.

EDIT: Test Results: Same conditions as above. (i.e. 1 flamer, same Atlas CT, same map)

• Test Commenced at 02:00.
  
• CT Armor stripped at 05:57
  
• Mech Destroyed at 08:30

Edited by Dead Eye 01, 24 March 2013 - 11:39 PM.

[FlourBoy]

Well, I hate to admit it, but I've been roasted to death before while in an Atlas. It was a hunchback and a light, I have no clue what it was. But the hunchie has only flamers, the light has flamers and machine guns. They ripped me to pieces before my teammates can get to me. Couldn't do much myself because I'm can't fire a shot without overheating.

[SPencil]

Flamers are great at distraction and harassment, as well as keeping known 'hot' builds from firing all their weapons.

See this video for demonstration:

[hashinshin]

Terror Teddy, on 24 March 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

If PGI limits the total heat you can inflict on an enemy mech then they essentially forbids boating of that weapon since using more than X of them is useless.

Why? PGI has no problem with people trying to boat 4-6 ERPPC's and oneshotting people left and right but using the shortest range weapon in the game with the ability to shut down enemies mechs is somewhow too good?

It's not like you can SNIPE an enemy into shutdown with that weapon.

because the loss of the ability to fight back is rather dumb.

Dying is one thing, you die. Getting stunlocked is another thing.

[TravelerTraveler]

I think flamers need to be completely reworked. They need a minimum and maximum range, you shouldn't just bump the mech and then light him up. Heat generated from that close should be very minimal and basically overheat the mech firing first. There needs to be a "sweet spot" around maybe 5-15m to cause real heat, and flamers should generate heat on their target and no damage. The reward for using flamers would be in heat generation and then eventually when the enemy mech overheats, they are sitting ducks obviously.

With this new rule, the amount of flamers on a mech should be capped to maybe 2 or 3 MAXIMUM to prevent abuse of this mechanic OR flamers should get depreciating returns OR flamers should be a lot heavier in weight due to potential for abuse since their mechanic is so much different than other weapons in the game. A little mech shouldn't just run up and incapacitate a bigger mech. At the same time, the mech falling victim to the flamer should be able to somewhat easily maneuver out of the "focus range" of the flamer.

Edited by TravelerTraveler, 25 March 2013 - 12:33 AM.

[Terror Teddy]

hashinshin, on 24 March 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

because the loss of the ability to fight back is rather dumb.

Dying is one thing, you die. Getting stunlocked is another thing.

Ufortunately that is the entire POINT with the weapon and combined with the abysmal range makes it useless.

[Voidcrafter]

I was killed by a flamer... once...
But shhhhh - don't tell anyone
In AWESOME - Forest Colony.
Actually it was one of my greatest game I ever made since I started playing - I left alone against 4 mechs, I already've killed 2 or 3 till the midgame.
Killed another 2 of those 2, there were a default K2 with 2xPPCs that manage to core my orange armor, I danced with a dragon for about 3 mins, so I got my shoulder cored too - amlost got that *******.
And then... a Spider came, with few flamers on it.
He actually manage to kill me without any serious harm done - cause of the cored components.
It's not that terrible weapon I guess, but I agree that's pretty bad.
The idea of depending on others to core stuff for you, so you can just be effective is scary but yea...
I guess that's what MWO is kinda about
Teamplay.
Compared to the other weapons tho... flamers are almost lined up with the machineguns - they are bad.

[Y2kHippy]

Talking about a optimum firing range or 5 to 15 meters is a joke I'm sorry. Its hard enough to close in to that 64 meter range and your talking about essentially ramming the enemy who will then cause you damage just because its there. Next time your in a game, no matter what mech you are in try picking a 10 meter range for you to stick to. By this I mean say 250 to 260 meters or 470 to 480 meters. Now in combat only fire when you are inside the 10 meters and see how well you do. Next do the same for 64 meters and see what happens. I actually have a under 50% miss rate with the flamers just because its hard to not just get into range but keep there. And before you say just stop or match your speed with the target, if I can hit him he is an easy target and I'm not putting myself into his position for his friends to take me out. At the moment they are a 100% non viable weapon until the heat output and the heat generated are reversed and the values altered significantly. Also the hard cap imposed should be removed. If a Splat Cat can pretty much 2 shot most mechs with 5+ SRM's at 270 meters then a 9 flamer Hunchback should be a viable build (with enough heat sinks of course) as he needs to then catch and close into 64 meters and HOLD that target in his weapons damage and range.

[General Taskeen]

Flamers in MW3 were so much better... Oh, and also MG's in MW3 and MW4.

[Onmyoudo]

Terror Teddy, on 25 March 2013 - 12:56 AM, said:

Ufortunately that is the entire POINT with the weapon and combined with the abysmal range makes it useless.

Then the weapon needs to be completely reworked. Everybody hated rogues and 'locks for a reason, and even with diminishing returns and stun breaks in later WoW expansions it never stopped being incredibly frustrating. Rogues anyway, 'locks were nerfed to the ground.

In a game like this that already has so many issues with new player introductions there should be no way that a player can permanently shut down another player and prevent them from doing anything. Just think of the griefing.

[Captain Stiffy]

Vrekgar, on 24 March 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

Funny but ???

How are you using flamers that they work for a damn?

[Captain Stiffy]

Also I don't get how dumping plasma from your engine heats up your mech. Shouldn't you be able to use flamers to reduce heat levels if they are very high already? Dunno. TT is kinda weird sometimes for as good as it is.

[Captain Stiffy]

ok well I actually just did manage to kill someone with a flamer

I put one in my YLW... D-DC is charging me cause I ate his CT armor with my AC/20

Charge him back, turn the flamer on.... BOOOOOM

But that was luck.

[Utilyan]

Cab, on 24 March 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

Its the LOW SIGNAL that made me laugh.

[Captain Stiffy]

Flamer
1 ton...
1 hard point...
.4 damage...
.6 heat to fire...
.2 heat inflicted...

Something might be wrong here...

[gavking]

i once saw someone with 8

[Captain Stiffy]

Well after trying it again a few matches... it kinda is like a machinegun... it really attracts attention and ****** people off.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Kaspirikay, on 24 March 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

Only works vs inexperienced players, though. Most good people will just fall back on electronic targeting and sensors.

Still annoying and if you are using it to draw fire too you it makes a good distraction. Been in a couple games where it was kill the annoying HBK-4P with 9 flamers only to have my last sight be a fresh Atlas right infront of me because I could not see my red indicators and the white from thermal was very hard on my eyes. Not fun.

[Sable Dove]

Captain Stiffy, on 24 March 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

What is up with these things? They seem almost completely useless. I once put like 9 of them on a hunchback just to see if it could do anything... almost nada.

Has anyone actually used them effectively?

I did the same thing once. Gotten two kills total with a 9-flamer HBK-4P.