82 replies to this topic

[Native]

Hayashi, on 24 March 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

Early Closed Beta testers will remember the 300kph Trollmando...

Psst, the Flea will likely break the 160kph mark. It'll be the non-flying version of the troll Spider.

When talking about useless Mechs, we should talk about the UrbanMech.

Which should be added as a 'Lunatic' difficulty setting for MWO.

lol I dont remember the trollmando going quite that fast... been here since early closed beta.. I remember it being able to fit a 300xl and go 200kph... still insanely fast. made the current troll light look like a joke. it literally teleported around the map. the lag shield was great with that one

Edited by Native, 25 March 2013 - 11:06 AM.

[chewie]

A chassis is only poor or useless, if you cannot change everything about it just to feel happy about your ability to kill the enemy (quickly enough).

And as everyone just has to modify something into something else (weapons wise), it then can be deemed useless if you cannot get it to do what you want it to, even though its not normally meant to do it in the first place.

So, is it the chassis that's useless, or the player and their mindset (raaaaaaarr pew pew pew BOOM.......I KILLE DYOU!!!!!!! )

[Nathan Foxbane]

Flea lacks for almost everything except speed and size. It will be the smallest and quite likely fastest thing on the battlefield. So what if has all the durability of a house of cards, you have to hit the damned little thing first and it will likely get some good shots off before you do.

[stjobe]

Nathan Foxbane, on 25 March 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Flea lacks for almost everything except speed and size.

It won't lack for firepower.
It can mount at least four medium lasers, or even four medium pulse lasers if you go with an XL engine.
And it will do so at 50% heat efficiency if you use DHS.

[Fremen]

I don't know why they chose the Flea as their well-armed, underarmored, light Mech over the Panther. With current Speed Restrictions you can't take advantage of it's greatest asset, so why even bother? Panther's way slow Stock, sure, but it's no slower than Stock Ravens, and it can mount all kinds of crazy builds. Plus it fills a legit Combat role on a team, rather than Scout-Cap-Strike, like Com/Jen/Rav.

P.S. If there's a Flea variant that can mount ECM it's going to be ABSURDLY annoying.

[General Taskeen]

stjobe, on 25 March 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

It won't lack for firepower.
It can mount at least four medium lasers, or even four medium pulse lasers if you go with an XL engine.
And it will do so at 50% heat efficiency if you use DHS.

If MG's weren't so terrible, my theory craft build for the Flea-15, in the widowmaker MechLab program is Max XL 170, Endo, Masc, Full Armor, 2 MG's, 2 ML's, 3 SL. 183 km/h mini-beast.

[Nathan Foxbane]

stjobe, on 25 March 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

It won't lack for firepower.
It can mount at least four medium lasers, or even four medium pulse lasers if you go with an XL engine.
And it will do so at 50% heat efficiency if you use DHS.

Hence the almost and the statement about good shots. I am just glad that like the Spider none fo the Fleas mount missiles.

[stjobe]

Fremen, on 25 March 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

I don't know why they chose the Flea as their well-armed, underarmored, light Mech over the Panther

You can make a very fun Ghetto Panther PNT-10K from a Commando.
Twice as fast as the real thing and half as much armour, but other than that, it's not a bad impression.

I've played that build for a few weeks now, and it's fun and quite effective.

[Terror Teddy]

Victor Morson, on 25 March 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

The engines would already allow for the Urbie, given they're restricted now.

Nope.

The 60 engine that the Urbie has USUALLY weights 2 tonnes and INCLUDE the weight of the FREE 10 heatsinks but they took up internal crit space but no weight.

The lowest rating 100 engine require 6 external heatsinks bumping its weight to 7 tonnes since we dont get the weight for free. I'd be ok with it if the required heatsinks just took space.

[Oni Ralas]

You know whats weird? Everyone hates the spider - but I've had some of the most exciting fights in it. Hell, I once topped the damage meters and kills in a 5D. I could almost hear the screams of frustration from the enemy.

In a tight coordination, I found the 5D in a disruptor/capper role is pretty stout. I could zip between the lrm line and jam them while my folks advanced to the next tier of cover. Bail, hide, maybe base/cap tickle to see who pulls off.

If they end up making LRM's a true support weapon, then a spider+TAG becomes my new go-to forward observer.

[Wolf Clearwater]

I have killed 3 enemy mechs in a single match with the spider 5k. 1 med pulse laser, 4 mach guns, max armor and XL255 engine.... On the other hand, I am lucky if I do 100 damage before dying in an Cataphract 4x. Some chassis are better for different people, its hard to knock a build just because you don't like it.
edit: bad spelling

Edited by Wolf87535, 25 March 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[Oppresor]

stjobe, on 25 March 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

I would love this too, if the game only rewarded it properly. At the moment the game mostly rewards damage and kills.

Your absolutely right, there is very little reward for Recon work apart from the thanks that you get from your Lance when you get it right. With the new large scale maps like Alpine and Tourmaline we really do have a role for Recon; fast movers like the Spider and the Flea when we get it fit this role perfectly. I have been experimenting with a Spider recently on Tourmaline. It is set up for Recon and is almost totally defensive e.g. AMS & BAP and one small laser. I very rarely get more than 10 Damage, but I often manage to capture bases (at least until heavier units can take over from me).

The Flea http://i.imgur.com/BRq8C.jpg is a slightly different proposition; yes it will make a brilliant Recon unit (especially if the speed is not restricted) but I also see the Flea as a possible Jenner Slayer; something that can beat a Jenner at its own game.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Oppresor, on 25 March 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Your absolutely right, there is very little reward for Recon work apart from the thanks that you get from your Lance when you get it right. With the new large scale maps like Alpine and Tourmaline we really do have a role for Recon; fast movers like the Spider and the Flea when we get it fit this role perfectly. I have been experimenting with a Spider recently on Tourmaline. It is set up for Recon and is almost totally defensive e.g. AMS & BAP and one small laser. I very rarely get more than 10 Damage, but I often manage to capture bases (at least until heavier units can take over from me).

The Flea http://i.imgur.com/BRq8C.jpg is a slightly different proposition; yes it will make a brilliant Recon unit (especially if the speed is not restricted) but I also see the Flea as a possible Jenner Slayer; something that can beat a Jenner at its own game.

Flea is 20 Tons. Good luck going toe to toe with a Jenner on a regular basis.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Anyone who think lights are useless...imagine they'd be gone, you'd wish them back soo enough. Diversity in the matches! Plus I believe that many do contribute and not just the strong ones, like the Raven 3L.

[jay35]

As long as I get some Zeus action, specifically the X model as a Hero mech, I don't mind.

[stjobe]

Oppresor, on 25 March 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Your absolutely right, there is very little reward for Recon work apart from the thanks that you get from your Lance when you get it right. With the new large scale maps like Alpine and Tourmaline we really do have a role for Recon; fast movers like the Spider and the Flea when we get it fit this role perfectly. I have been experimenting with a Spider recently on Tourmaline. It is set up for Recon and is almost totally defensive e.g. AMS & BAP and one small laser. I very rarely get more than 10 Damage, but I often manage to capture bases (at least until heavier units can take over from me).

The Flea http://i.imgur.com/BRq8C.jpg is a slightly different proposition; yes it will make a brilliant Recon unit (especially if the speed is not restricted) but I also see the Flea as a possible Jenner Slayer; something that can beat a Jenner at its own game.

I've been piloting Commandos since August, and there's never been a time where it didn't pay better to play as a Striker rather than a Scout. Until the game actually starts rewarding scouting and other activities such as capping, relaying target information etc you will always earn more by loading up as much firepower as you can and try to do as much damage as possible.

And as for the Flea vs the Jenner... As an old Commando pilot it hurts me to say that unless they lift the engine restrictions, the Jenner's going to take that more often than not. But then again, a light's worst enemy (besides its own pilot) has always been other lights.

Edited by stjobe, 25 March 2013 - 02:17 PM.

[Rippthrough]

There are plenty of times I've made a big difference to a match in a spider, they're awesome. I just wish the speed cap was gone so I could outrun 3L-easymodes.

[Scraper]

Unless they make a Mech with 0 hardpoints, there is no useless Mech... only worthless pilots. I love two of my Spiders (and I have a disagreement with my ECM equipped one). The funny thing is that some pilots ignore me even while I do massive damage to their backs... Even Spider pilots who aren't that great often end up the last one standing (though often quickly die at that point as well).

[Kyoulkoa]

just more mechs to love i say.

[mikerso]

verybad, on 24 March 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Spider IS useful in somethings. It's just not recognized in the game score.

It's an excellent scout, and capper. You're never going to get a high damage number in it, but as a team unit, it can provide some interesting usefulness.

Yesterday, River City. I'm in a Spider, only light on my team. I go out and encounter 2 ECM Ravens. I shoot at them a bit to get their attention (with my TAG and One Medium Laser) Then I run away from them back towards my group.

They take the bait and run into a whole lot of pain.

Now the opposing team is out of lights. I'm damaged, but I still have full mobility. I run along the side and get to their base to cap.

I'm the only one on their base, so it's not a fast process, but my intention isn't to actually cap, it's to break up their front line.

This works, a couple of their mechs, a Centurion and a Stalker (of all things) come back after me. Depriving their front line of firepower. I run away, though the Cent does some more damage to me. In the mean time, their front line is crushed. because we have regional superiority. We win the game. My final score?

Damage 9, Game score 10.

So while it may not have done much damage, and it didn't cap the base and win the game, it was VERY, VERY useful overall It changed the way the enemy force fought us.

The Spider is a VERY good scout. It's not a fighter, it's not a threat by any means, it's very rare to get a kill when using one.

It can change games however.

I would say the SDR-5V could be considered useless, but I once used my 5D to keep three mechs (Atlas, Catapult, Cataphract) from capping our base while my only teammate left alive capped theirs. They shot themselves more than they hit me. The combination of speed, ECM, and JJ make the SDR-5D one of the most useful lights in the game.