327 replies to this topic

[Major Derps]

Biased 1 sided poll, any results are void. Also, TDM doesn't fit into CW. I wouldn't expect to see it until we get Solaris.

Edited by Mokey Mot, 27 March 2013 - 02:36 PM.

[Teralitha]

Mokey Mot, on 27 March 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Biased 1 sided poll, any results are void. Also, TDM doesn't fit into CW. I wouldn't expect to see it until we get Solaris.

Opinions..... Why is it biased? Why doesnt TDM fit well in CW?(pssst CW isnt here yet so how do you know?)

And solaris is not TDM, its FFA.

Edited by Teralitha, 27 March 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[Davers]

Shismar, on 27 March 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

TDM matches are time limited. The team with the most mechs standing when the time runs out wins. Losers receive a death. There really is not much sense in running in that case.

I don't want this mode for myself. I find it incredibly boring. But since there are some players that want it and can't accept that assault/conquest are not TDM, I feel they should get it.

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Thats actually a pretty good solution, I cant believe I didnt think of it already. Thank you sir. Some ppl will still argue though that a griefer will still run and hide and the sky will still fall..... maybe... some people will argue over any stupid little thing...

It is more likely that when time runs out the team with the highest number of kills wins, not that all enemy mechs just suddenly have sudden engine explosions. The fact that everyone is brainstorming ways to ensure every match doesn't last the full 15 minutes might be seen as a problem with the game mode.

[Scraper]

I'd rather a 4 team mode or FFA before TDM, we have TDM if no one decides to cap rush.

[Teralitha]

Davers, on 27 March 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

It is more likely that when time runs out the team with the highest number of kills wins, not that all enemy mechs just suddenly have sudden engine explosions. The fact that everyone is brainstorming ways to ensure every match doesn't last the full 15 minutes might be seen as a problem with the game mode.

Its not a problem for the players who want TDM, its a problem for the players who dont, which makes no sense since they dont have to play it....

[Davers]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

Its not a problem for the players who want TDM, its a problem for the players who dont, which makes no sense since they dont have to play it....

Since we already have "No one wants to fight, just cap" Assault and "No one wants to cap, just fight" Conquest let's just assume that players will not do the expected in TDM either.

[Karyudo ds]

Praehotec8, on 27 March 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Right now this game mostly IS team deathmatch. Sure, once in a while someone wins by capping, but I don't see it all that often, and the option to cap, and the need to respond to opponents at your base adds a small layer of depth that would be absent in pure TDM. I'm not necessarily against it, but I don't really see that much reason to add it.

There is a depth in that, but there's lack of depth in finding the enemy, the OTHER thing fast mechs in MW4 were really good for. Your team would move around the map hunting, with a couple fast mechs looking for the target so you could flank them. Here it's mostly two teams walking in a straight line at each other for fear of fast mechs capping their base.

PGI has claimed it makes lights worth more but I see lights as valuable in TDM too. Only real problem is being awarded for your time spent (which MWO needs to do anyway with various map sizes) so that a longer TDM hunt is as rewarding as an Assault match.

So I would love both...in fact I'd love to see an version of Assault with only one base as well. Mechs aren't only used to capture objects around the block.

Edited by Karyudo ds, 27 March 2013 - 02:55 PM.

[Davers]

Karyudo ds, on 27 March 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

There is a depth in that, but there's lack of depth in finding the enemy, the OTHER thing fast mechs in MW4 were really good for. Your team would move around the map hunting, with a couple fast mechs looking for the target so you could flank them. Here it's mostly two teams walking in a straight line at each other for fear of fast mechs capping their base.

PGI has claimed it makes lights worth more but I see lights as valuable in TDM too. Only real problem is being awarded for your time spent (which MWO needs to do anyway with various map sizes) so that a longer TDM hunt is as rewarding as an Assault match.

So I would love both...in fact I'd love to see an version of Assault with only one base as well. Mechs aren't only used to capture objects around the block.

Since base capping gives you very little rewards, it would be the exact same rewards as an Assault game. What people would want is MORE rewards, since the game is guaranteed (almost) to last longer without multiple ways to end the game.

I would want that 'one base' mode too. But I am not sure how it would work with the maps we have. It would need to be equally distant from both starting areas, but I am not sure I want all the fights on Frozen City to be around Theta.

[Donas]

You could disarm every person in this 10 pages of back and forth by making different game modes individually selectable and deselectable to be part of their random rotation. Some folks like playing on random, and if they have the ability to remove just one game mode from their rotation, then there truly is no reason for them to object, since their game experience is completely uneffected. The problem with "I'll just play another mode" in the current incarnation is that everyone that doesnt like ONE mode, no longer has the ability to have random map and mode selection. And a bunch of folks enjoy that. Is it a big deal? nope. But would it darned near completely solve the problem? I believe it would.

Its a prospective solution that not only paves the way for TDM, but also for random waves, KOTH, CTF, FFA since anyone that doesnt like them, can just take them out of the rotation for themselves, instead of limiting their own play because of someone else.

Teralitha is currently being completely limited, and that sucks, since none of the game modes are to his (I'm assuming) play preferences. He's stated he's looking for something like the MW4 TDM and League play. I'd like to get TDM for him, and one way to do that is to get everyone either on board, or significantly indifferent. Ten pages of back and forth would indicate that is not currently the case, just as Insanity's poll of "Make TDM a Priority" has cooled down to nearly 50/50 (33:30 at last notice).

Edited by Donas, 27 March 2013 - 03:20 PM.

[Taemien]

EvilCow, on 27 March 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

Terrain Control is a very different beast than Conquest. I would prefer Terrain Control but a lame Team Deathmatch would be preferable to what we have now.

No the difference between Terrain Control and Conquest is the fact that you cannot respawn in MWO. Unless you're talking about fully automated base defense systems. Those sucked. There's no skill involved when you take more damage from a base than you do the enemy team's mechs. Bases shouldn't defend themselves. That was another annoyance that the community over there had.

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

I never played MWLL. MW4 had tons of game modes actually.

Team death match
Team attrition - Team Death Match with a different scoring system, Played entirely the same way
death match - Not team based, doesn't apply to MWO
attrition - Same as above, different scoring scheme
CTF - Already said this
King of the hill - same as above
seige - 3rd Party Map required, buggy in nature
mission play - Single Player
escort - No one played this often
instant action - Single Player
Solaris game types - Single Player
NHUA - An abomination, also merely a setting, NOT a gamemode
respawn/norespawn - Already have no respawn in MWO, respawn doesn't fit in MWO, and merely a setting, NOT a game mode
Fog levels - Already in MWO for some maps, merely a setting for a match, not a game mode
team only radar - Same as above
no radar - Again same as above


did I miss anything?

Edit: I forgot about STOCK, one of my favories... - Yet another setting and not a true game mode



Then my poll is working as intended.

All and all you pointed out only half a game mode more then I said there was in MW4. Escort which wasn't worth the time of the day. I'm pretty sure there is more people that select Assault or Conquest only, in the last month, then there was in the last 15 years since MW4 came out that played Escort. Just saying.

Oh and I will reiterate something I said in another thread. You can make Assault into a Team Death Match game, right here right now. Here's the steps.

1. Inform Team to stay at base.
2. Stay at base.
3. Fight the enemy team as they come in range.
4. Win or Lose

You just played Team Death Match. Try it! Lets put actions where your mouths are. PROVE to us that that poll is accurate and do as I suggested. If most of your games can play out like that then you are RIGHT! If no one listens, then I guess the forums are NOT the majority of players ingame and they do not want TDM and you are WRONG.

Ooh.. someone has to do more then post a poll lets see if he can pull it off. You have been challenged, lets see actions instead of words. I'll be waiting for the results. As my old platoon motto used to be, "put up or shutup"

[Major Derps]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Opinions..... Why is it biased? Why doesnt TDM fit well in CW?(pssst CW isnt here yet so how do you know?)

And solaris is not TDM, its FFA.

OP hasn't put in a No option. You ask a question, but tell me I can't say no? It's as bad as all my girlfriends loaded questions.
No, Solaris is a free for all, but there is no reason it can't have a TDM mode. And the not fitting into CW, is quoted from the devs (the quote was actually that it doesn't fit into current gameplay, I'll try and find the direct quote)

[Teralitha]

Taemien, on 27 March 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

All and all you pointed out only half a game mode more then I said there was in MW4. Escort which wasn't worth the time of the day. I'm pretty sure there is more people that select Assault or Conquest only, in the last month, then there was in the last 15 years since MW4 came out that played Escort. Just saying.

Oh and I will reiterate something I said in another thread. You can make Assault into a Team Death Match game, right here right now. Here's the steps.

1. Inform Team to stay at base.
2. Stay at base.
3. Fight the enemy team as they come in range.
4. Win or Lose

You just played Team Death Match. Try it! Lets put actions where your mouths are. PROVE to us that that poll is accurate and do as I suggested. If most of your games can play out like that then you are RIGHT! If no one listens, then I guess the forums are NOT the majority of players ingame and they do not want TDM and you are WRONG.

Ooh.. someone has to do more then post a poll lets see if he can pull it off. You have been challenged, lets see actions instead of words. I'll be waiting for the results. As my old platoon motto used to be, "put up or shutup"

Mission play was not single player, it was pvp only. That mode was 1 base, 1 attacker 1 defender and it was the most popular public league server mode. Followed by tonnage limited TDM.

My whole point was that MW4 had alot of ways to play it. I didnt say they were all popular. Stock only was also somewhat popular. There were at least 2 other leagues dedicated to stock only mechs, and they were fun.

As for Assault mode being the same as TDM per your description, you cant do that because there are TWO teams. and both could just sit at their base and do nothing... sorry. You didnt think of that did ya. Your plan relies on the other team being stupid, all the time.

Mokey Mot, on 27 March 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

OP hasn't put in a No option. You ask a question, but tell me I can't say no? It's as bad as all my girlfriends loaded questions.
No, Solaris is a free for all, but there is no reason it can't have a TDM mode. And the not fitting into CW, is quoted from the devs (the quote was actually that it doesn't fit into current gameplay, I'll try and find the direct quote)

dude... FFA = Free For All. Thats what I said.

Edited by Teralitha, 27 March 2013 - 06:39 PM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Remove bases from Assault.
PROBLEM SOLVED.

[Mal]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Poll results so far reveal that a majority of players would choose to play TDM over other current game modes. Just like we keep telling you devs... alot of players want it. 62%. it just might be worth implementing after all.



Opinion. Not fact, sorry...

Your poll is still not allowing for anyone that doesn't agree with you to vote. Having two yes options, and then saying "the majority says yes!" isn't accurate.

If you're so sure the majority wants TDM... why don't you have a no option?

[Writer]

Cato Phoenix, on 27 March 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

Enjoy chasing my spider for 15 minutes.

I would. Your Spider wouldn't be able to outrun everyone for 15 minutes. You'd die in 1-2 minutes, or at worst you'd try to hide on top of a building or something and power down.

Sweetie.

[Budor]

I dont see how this could be better than assault. Esp. on big maps with campers in slow mechs.

Edited by Budor, 27 March 2013 - 06:48 PM.

[Teralitha]

Prosperity Park, on 27 March 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

Good Luck boxing a Light Mech in while you're in the Tourmaline Desert or Alpine Peaks... that's the problem, right there. In order to do that, you have to fan-out very far, and then you risk being solo'd by a Light Mech or lacking the local firepower to stop it from escaping your thin trap.

I did it on even bigger maps. Didnt need luck, just good herding skills, and aim.

[Teralitha]

Mal, on 27 March 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

Your poll is still not allowing for anyone that doesn't agree with you to vote. Having two yes options, and then saying "the majority says yes!" isn't accurate.

If you're so sure the majority wants TDM... why don't you have a no option?

There isnt 2 yes options. There isnt a no option because there doesnt need to be one. "I will be playing other modes" is a sufficient answer. It doesnt mean yes in any way. It simply represents the portion of the player base that wont play TDM if it were implemented. Im sorry if you dont like those results, but the fact of the matter is, more players prefer TDM over the current modes. If TDM were implemented, you wouldnt be having any less fun playing your favorite modes, would you?

People who want to vote "no" are simply ppl who want to argue for the sake of argueing, when there is no reason TO argue over a potential game mode that they wont be playing. See? The poll choices are correct.

Edited by Teralitha, 27 March 2013 - 06:58 PM.

[Major Derps]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

dude... FFA = Free For All. Thats what I said.

Yeah, I only realised that after I had posted, my bad.

[Taemien]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

Mission play was not single player, it was pvp only. That mode was 1 base, 1 attacker 1 defender and it was the most popular public league server mode. Followed by tonnage limited TDM.

My whole point was that MW4 had alot of ways to play it. I didnt say they were all popular. Stock only was also somewhat popular. There were at least 2 other leagues dedicated to stock only mechs, and they were fun.

Stock was a setting, not a game mode, that was played in the other modes.

And mission play was a third party map, played in Team Deathmatch. I know this, because I've made such a map myself. The map maker had some interesting things you could do with it. Buggy at times, but interesting. NBT had very good successes with it. Though that has little relevance here.

Though if you want to compare MW4 to MWO, it will only strengthen the second part of my argument. The queue times. Finding a game in MWO takes about 3-6 seconds. MW4 it took 3-5 minutes primetime, if a game was already going, and this was only possible because of the respawning nature. Getting a league match (as you described in your counter point) took 3-5 DAYS maybe even a week.

Also all those matches were Unit vs Unit. Solo players never got into those competitive league games. Which when converting such over to MWO and its game launch system means solo players will likely see games where they have to play against 5-12 man teams, which is much worse than the 2-4 man teams they see now.

Remember these facts:

12 vs 12 is coming
NA and EU servers will be split
More game modes mean most likely teams will no longer have their own queues.

This means PUGing players will get their TDM and other game modes. But simply get stomped in them. Admittedly, this part doesn't bother me. I group quite a bit, and will simply expand my group to compensate. Its not an issue for me. But I better not hear whining about it, when I presented this info before hand.

Just merely saying, "Watch what you wish for, you might get it."

Quote

As for Assault mode being the same as TDM per your description, you cant do that because there are TWO teams. and both could just sit at their base and do nothing... sorry. You didnt think of that did ya. Your plan relies on the other team being stupid, all the time.

Funny thing about that is, they don't. The enemy always creep up on the base. I'm smart enough to suggest something I've already tried and know the results of. I only fudged them to work for me by launching with 3 friends so I can hold my team hostage by saying they'll get slaughtered if they leave the base by the other team, because we ain't moving.

Very effective, usually stomp the other team 8v0. But it is rather boring as I do prefer scouting and using other tactics that are involved with Assault. But that is my preference.

The point is, the enemy team will not sit back. Some fast mover is going to inevitably come in and get killed by your 8 mechs. Now the enemy team HAS to fight you or lose 1v0 once the time is up. But that never happens, they usually come in mid field. And you don't have to sit IN the base, just don't go beyond 1/4 a way out, its effectively the same thing.

So the fact is -I- can do it, and coerce convince others to stay and fight like TDM. Now I want to see if -You- can do it. The challenge is to see if the players in game, the ones that don't visit the forums, like to play by Team Death Match rules. If you cannot meet this challenge then your little poll means NOTHING.

Edited by Taemien, 27 March 2013 - 07:00 PM.