11 replies to this topic

[jeffsw6]

Here is a breakdown of current damage per ton of ammo, if all shots landed, without accounting for splash, crit, or spread:

AC2 75 * 2 = 150
AC5 30 * 5 = 150
AC10 15 * 10 = 150
AC20 7 * 20 = 140
Gauss 10 * 15 = 150
LB10X 15 * 10 = 150
MG 2000 * 0.04 = 80
UAC5 25 * 5 = 125
LRM 180 * 0.7 = 126
SRM 100 * 1.5 = 150
Streak SRM 100 * 1.5 = 150

If it's not obvious, the reason LRM boating was so easy is, pre-nerf, you could carry way more dmg/ton of LRM ammo than any other kind of ammunition in the game. Other than the ultra-gimp Machine Gun, all ammo is kind of clustered around 150 dmg/ton now -- but that's if you land every shot.

Why is dmg/ton not being used to balance the difficulty of aiming some of these weapons?

If you do a dmg/heat and range comparison, there is also some things that do not make sense, particularly the Gauss Rifle; however the slot and ton of the weapons themselves do try to take this into account.

My gripe is basically this: some mechs have as many as 3 hardpoints for ballastic weapons in the same area of the chassis, which you can't use unless you like AC2 or MG, because you do not have enough slots for multiple big guns. That's kind of stupid.

The ammunition should be used to balance weaponry. Today it really isn't. LRMs themselves did need a nerf, but you can still have 180 of them per ton. That's foolish. If you could only carry 50 LRMs/ton then people would have to decide more carefully when to fire them, or they would waste all their ammo. That would have been an effective nerf too, and IMO a better one.

$0.02.

[Noobzorz]

A good topic, especially since ammo takes up so much tonnage, but the ease of deployment should really be a factor, which is why I can understand that PGI emphasizes using a "balance by feel" instead of "spreadsheet warrior" approach (as in the case of this recent LRM change). Incidentally, that's another part of what made LRMs so unbelievably overpowered prior to the fix: many boats could unload 320 some damage in five or less cooldown periods, or about 25 seconds.

For example, I find that I have a much easier time burning a ton of AC/20 shots effectively than I do connecting with 30 AC/5 rounds.

[Franchi]

Because LRM's will miss 30% of the time or better even on solid locks.

[anonymous175]

[AnnoyingCat]

FIRE EVERYTHING!

[Xyroc]

Difference is the SRMs and LRMs dont do it in 1 location and 90% of the time not all the missiles hit.


Funny part is I have never been a splatcat pilot nor a LRM boater and you know what? I never was QQing about it either ... just learned how to avoid the fire and counter the attack made by these mechs.

Edited by Beliall, 26 March 2013 - 03:41 PM.

[jeffsw6]

Franchi, on 26 March 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

Because LRM's will miss 30% of the time or better even on solid locks.

Even if true, pre-nerf LRM ammo was 324 dmg/ton, or 130% more than any other ammunition. So a 30% miss rate on a weapon that forces enemies to stay behind cover or use ECM to move did not warrant a 130% ammo dmg/ton advantage vs other weaponry.

Weapon damage, hardpoints, tons, and slots should be used to balance alpha strikes. It's the only thing that can.

Ammunition should be used to balance the long-term effectiveness of particular weapons throughout the match.

So for example, it's probably bad that some mechs can carry more than one gauss rifle. It's also bad that they can load up on ammo and take shots carelessly. This is not what snipers do, and not how mech snipers should do, either. Gauss rifle ammo should be nerfed to the point that you have to choose your shots carefully, or find that weapon useless.

PPCs, on the other hand, are not limited by ammo at all; they just use up hardpoints and make your mech less effective in a brawl. This should be the sniper weapon of choice, for someone who wants the luxury to be able to miss. Gauss rifle should be a weapon for someone willing to bet on hits, not one where you can carry 80 rounds of ammo and mount 2 rifles.

[Tennex]

WTB magazine extending module

[Ph30nix]

jeffsw6, on 26 March 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Even if true, pre-nerf LRM ammo was 324 dmg/ton, or 130% more than any other ammunition. So a 30% miss rate on a weapon that forces enemies to stay behind cover or use ECM to move did not warrant a 130% ammo dmg/ton advantage vs other weaponry.

Weapon damage, hardpoints, tons, and slots should be used to balance alpha strikes. It's the only thing that can.

Ammunition should be used to balance the long-term effectiveness of particular weapons throughout the match.

So for example, it's probably bad that some mechs can carry more than one gauss rifle. It's also bad that they can load up on ammo and take shots carelessly. This is not what snipers do, and not how mech snipers should do, either. Gauss rifle ammo should be nerfed to the point that you have to choose your shots carefully, or find that weapon useless.

PPCs, on the other hand, are not limited by ammo at all; they just use up hardpoints and make your mech less effective in a brawl. This should be the sniper weapon of choice, for someone who wants the luxury to be able to miss. Gauss rifle should be a weapon for someone willing to bet on hits, not one where you can carry 80 rounds of ammo and mount 2 rifles.

lol "load up on ammo" you know how fast you burn thru ammo? also a "sniper" like you are thinking gets a kill IN ONE SHOT. even a gauss cant one shot (cept maybe a light thru the cockpit)
how about you not try to tell other people how to play and enjoy their game

frankly ballistic ammo could use a boost since while yes their damage is fine the extra tonnage required to actualy make use of them is a real pain.

OH and maybe if they had a vision mode that was effective past about 600 meters your idea of a sniper might be more viable.

can we get rid of the Damn haze on all these maps....

Edited by Ph30nix, 26 March 2013 - 04:03 PM.

[Moromillas]

No, not really. Per battery the amount of ammo you should take is close to what you need for each auto cannon. Spread sheets and arithmetic will only take you so far, you need actual data on how much to take.

[Franchi]

jeffsw6, on 26 March 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Even if true, pre-nerf LRM ammo was 324 dmg/ton, or 130% more than any other ammunition. So a 30% miss rate on a weapon that forces enemies to stay behind cover or use ECM to move did not warrant a 130% ammo dmg/ton advantage vs other weaponry.

Weapon damage, hardpoints, tons, and slots should be used to balance alpha strikes. It's the only thing that can.

Ammunition should be used to balance the long-term effectiveness of particular weapons throughout the match.

So for example, it's probably bad that some mechs can carry more than one gauss rifle. It's also bad that they can load up on ammo and take shots carelessly. This is not what snipers do, and not how mech snipers should do, either. Gauss rifle ammo should be nerfed to the point that you have to choose your shots carefully, or find that weapon useless.

PPCs, on the other hand, are not limited by ammo at all; they just use up hardpoints and make your mech less effective in a brawl. This should be the sniper weapon of choice, for someone who wants the luxury to be able to miss. Gauss rifle should be a weapon for someone willing to bet on hits, not one where you can carry 80 rounds of ammo and mount 2 rifles.

What I said is the miss rate under IDEAL circumstances, when you have a SOLID lock on a target who is in the open for the duration of a shot, 30% is the amount of missiles that will miss on average under these circumstances. Its lower versus assualts about 30% versus heavies and a hell of a lot higher versus mediums and lights who can out run most of the missiles by moving at a 90 degree angle from the path of the missiles.

I for instance have a 27.77% accuracy rating with LRMS, yet I have a KDR no lower than 2.20, and as high as 5.70 across my 3 LRM boats as well as W/L ratios from 1.60-6.00 That is what pug stats on LRM's look like (I refuse to run LRM's in group play)

For comparison I have a 73.55% hit rate with large lasers, despite the fact that I spend the time before making contact with the enemy writing my name in the ground.

Edited by Franchi, 26 March 2013 - 04:54 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

http://mwomercs.com/...13#entry2024113

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