15 replies to this topic

[NitroBurst]

So this is my first topic creation and I wanted to point at something that has been in previous games but you normally don't see often. I personally feel like it adds a bit of a tactical element to the game and would like other's opinion as well on this idea. Of those of us who have read the novels and played the early games, we can remember quite well when a 'Mech was disabled or destroyed and its fusion reactor immediately shut down to avoid a catastrophic meltdown on the spot. But sometimes, the 'Mech had sustained so much damage that this was not possible and hence we get an explosion similar to what happens in the MechWarrior 3 intro video when the Mad Cat goes critical (though I believe that to be a bit exagerated for this game world, but that's just me).

Now the idea I have in mind is simple and doesn't go all catastrophic as in that video. When an engine gets crit, there is a damage calculator that takes only CT, RT, and LT into account (all three torsos). If there is a certain amount of damage or more between all three torsos, there is an RNG that determines whether or not containment is lost. If it is, it creates an explosion around the immediate area centered on the 'Mech who lost containment for about 10 - 25 meters that causes X amount of damage to everything caught in it, with damage falling off the farther from the exploding 'Mech you are. What do my fellow Mechwarriors think? Discuss!

PS: Please keep this discussion civil.

[Khobai]

Mechs are already too easy to kill as is. Reactor crits would make them even easier to kill. Do we really want that?

[Mackman]

PGI has already said they don't want this in the game (although with their recent behavior, you can take that however you will). It's a really terrible feeling to suddenly die (or just take a lot of damage) from something you cannot foresee cannot control, and cannot act against. It adds in an element of randomness that has no place in a skill-based game.

[Davers]

ib4 "Mechs exploding is not canon!"

Honestly, I would rather not have suicide bombers. In another TT game I played (Starfleet Battles) ships used to explode with a lot of damage. This led to light ships being charged right into the enemy and self-destructing. This led to poor gameplay. The same would happen here. I can imagine damaged lights running right in the middle of their opponents, who don't dare shoot them because they might explode.

[Phaesphoros]

There are ways and means to make this non-random and not faster than current kills, leaving the option to buff crit-seekers. I've posted two suggestions, both being rather unpopular unfortunately

[Davers]

Phaesphoros, on 25 March 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

There are ways and means to make this non-random and not faster than current kills, leaving the option to buff crit-seekers. I've posted two suggestions, both being rather unpopular unfortunately

What crit seekers need is TACs and more components to damage, like engines and actuators. If MG, LBX, and Flamers were the only weapons that had a chance to do a TAC or destroy these components then they might be worth something.

Having small fusion (fission? I can't remember) explosions is not the way to make machine guns useful.

[lorrylemming]

I think that if you destroy the CT then you should roll for a meltdown, this means mechs are no easier to kill than before and you get some explosions. This would make leg/cockpit/de-arming a safer and more meaningful option instead of going for the kill instantly. Another thing it would do is make teams spread out a little,

[LobsterPete]

Exploding mechs might not work but having some extra heat build up for each engine crit might (like in the TT game). I'd love to see a lot of the internal slots actually do sometihng. Maybe gyro and leg actuator hits decreasing max speed by a percentage or arm actuator hits decreasing range of motion of the arms. My Spider-5Ks machine guns need sometihng to chew on besides weapons.

[Skylarr]

Quote

Fusion engines usually will only shut down if damaged, and they are absolutely no risk of being a fusion bomb. There have been a number of cases of fusion engines being "over revved" and exploding with devestating force, but this is more akin to a boiler explosion than a true nuclear explosion. More often a destroyed engine will be punctured by weapons fire. Because the plasma is held in a vacuum chamber (to isolate the superheated plasma from the cold walls of the reactor; contact with the walls would super-chill the plasma below fusion temperatures), a punctured reactor can suck in air where the air is superheated. Normal thermal expansion of the air causes the air to burst out in a brilliant lightshow often mistaken for a "nuclear explosion". The Thermal Expansion damages anything within 90 meters of the destroyed 'Mech.



Such dramatic failures are rare, though. It is difficult to sustain the fusion reaction and very easy to shutdown. Safety systems or damage to containment coils will almost always shut down the engine before such an explosion occurs. The massive shielding of the engine (in the case of standard fusion engines, this is a tungsten carbide shell that accounts for over 2/3 of the weight of the engine) usually buys the safety systems the milliseconds needed to shutdown the engine when severe damaged is inflicted.

While I feel this would be an interesting addition to the game. It woud cause a a bigger riot on the forums than when they buffed the LRMs 2 weeks ago.

Edited by Skylarr, 25 March 2013 - 01:16 PM.

[Menetius]

And I quote SARNA:

"Fusion engines usually will only shut down if damaged, and they are absolutely no risk of being a fusion bomb. There have been a number of cases of fusion engines being "over revved" and exploding with devestating force, but this is more akin to a boiler explosion than a true nuclear explosion. More often a destroyed engine will be punctured by weapons fire. Because the plasma is held in a vacuum chamber (to isolate the superheated plasma from the cold walls of the reactor; contact with the walls would super-chill the plasma below fusion temperatures), a punctured reactor can suck in air where the air is superheated. Normal thermal expansion of the air causes the air to burst out in a brilliant lightshow often mistaken for a "nuclear explosion". The Thermal Expansion damages anything within 90 meters of the destroyed 'Mech.

Such dramatic failures are rare, though. It is difficult to sustain the fusion reaction and very easy to shutdown. Safety systems or damage to containment coils will almost always shut down the engine before such an explosion occurs. The massive shielding of the engine (in the case of standard fusion engines, this is a tungsten carbide shell that accounts for over 2/3 of the weight of the engine) usually buys the safety systems the milliseconds needed to shutdown the engine when severe damaged is inflicted."

So, say, if you get hit in an unarmored center torso with two AC/20's simultaneously, that kind of catastrophic damage to the tungsten shell could, theoretically, override the safety precautions of the reactor and cause catastrophic thermal expansion. Anyone remember the massive amounts of damage you could take from getting caught in a reactor 'explosion' in MW2?

Also, on a side note:
"... a light Mech can use the same engine as an assault Mech, but move much faster."

Engine 335 for my Spider, please?

EDIT: Heh, someone beat me to the quoting punch.

Edited by Menetius, 25 March 2013 - 01:24 PM.

[boomboom517]

if they implement to crits we see in tt as well as implamenting melee then id say explode if die to engine crit 3 that is similantus to ct destroyed so long as the explosion does low damage should be fine

Davers, on 25 March 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

ib4 "Mechs exploding is not canon!" Honestly, I would rather not have suicide bombers. In another TT game I played (Starfleet Battles) ships used to explode with a lot of damage. This led to light ships being charged right into the enemy and self-destructing. This led to poor gameplay. The same would happen here. I can imagine damaged lights running right in the middle of their opponents, who don't dare shoot them because they might explode.

your not going to like this but there is a boobytap in tt

[LauLiao]

Menetius, on 25 March 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

Engine 335 for my Spider, please?

Sure, the 335XL weighs 20 tons... so sure! That should leave you just enough space for your cockpit, life support, gyro, and internal structure. I've always wanted to see what a mech with no weapons or armor could do.

[Davers]

boomboom517, on 25 March 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

if they implement to crits we see in tt as well as implamenting melee then id say explode if die to engine crit 3 that is similantus to ct destroyed so long as the explosion does low damage should be fine

your not going to like this but there is a boobytap in tt

What would be the point of having them explode for only a little damage?

[Signal27]

Khobai, on 25 March 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Mechs are already too easy to kill as is. Reactor crits would make them even easier to kill. Do we really want that?

This.

The most I'd ever want to see is engine critical hits causing more heat to be generated and/or losing some top speed - but that's it. Engine should only be completely be destroyed when the internal structure is completely destroyed.

[Menetius]

LauLiao, on 25 March 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Sure, the 335XL weighs 20 tons... so sure! That should leave you just enough space for your cockpit, life support, gyro, and internal structure. I've always wanted to see what a mech with no weapons or armor could do.

With maximum armor, I'd have 2.7 tons left over. Given the fact that the Spider 5-D only has three hardpoints, I can still throw 2 medium lasers onto it... and get a rather notable lag-shield.

The Spider's base components (the stripped down skeleton with life-support, i.e. no armor, engine, weapons, etc...) only weigh three tons.

Edited by Menetius, 25 March 2013 - 04:47 PM.

[FireSlade]

I already started a poll that has this idea in it but adding an engine explosion would not break the game like you guys think. I've played the other MW games online and the reactor going nova didn't do much but keep us from rubbing mechs incase it did, considering that you had to run a 14ersmall laser shadowcat to play online. What we did was be more precise in our shots aiming for limbs. With today's tech 14 years later it shouldn't be too much for the programmers to add a roll for the reactor going nova keep the damage within 30meters and the size of the engine determine the damage. If there were "suicide bombers" every player that does that reduces the enemies team and a light wouldn't be able to destroy a heavy or assault with the explosion. We could use a little more strategy out there, with less people doing their own things and this would help with that. I know everyone hate change but why change a mechanic that was in the TableTop, Lore, and Games?