19 replies to this topic

[Major Derps]

I have noticed a lot of commotion about the trial 'mech system, and have a few opinions of my own to share on this. I love this game, so I want to see it reach it's full potential. And while I understand that there is a big need for attention elsewhere, I also understand that we need to hold on to prospective players to see it thrive. However, before I add clutter to PGIs suggestions, I though I would try to consult and brain storm with some of the player base (hopefully we can get some newcomer ideas/views in here too), before I go tapping PGI on the shoulder all like 'hey PGI, implement my half thought out idea or else'.

Now, here is my suggestion;

Instead of the trial mech system, I believe first time players should be given a lump sum of 5 or 6 million cbills (contrary to previous views I had), and retain the cadet bonuses. 5 mil can buy a player any light, and most mediums (even 1 heavy), and still allow for some customization.
But we can't just leave it there, now we have no way of trying new 'mechs...So I propose in it's place there should be a 'test drive' system, where we can try any 'mech in the training grounds.

That's just my 2 cents. Please post any other ideas here, or support for mine, or even tell me there is in fact no issue. Perhaps if we can consolidate ideas, and present them in one well thought out idea, we can seriously get PGIs attention, and create a solid solution to (what I consider) this problem...maybe

*A special thanks to the Mod who fix the title for me.

Edited by Mokey Mot, 27 March 2013 - 06:51 PM.
title

[HereticalPsycho]

giving new players a lump sum of money wont help. The way I see it, even with a test drive, which I think is a fantastic idea, players will just buy the biggest or the coolest looking. Effectively wasting the 5 million starter buff you gave them. I know personally I blew 3 mil on altering my engine only to work out I broke the entire system and ended up straight back where I started and missing 2 million c-bills. With the 5 million they will get one mech and if they made a wrong choice they are screwed for a substantial while. The trial mechs however allow you to pilot and get blown to pieces in a few different mechs, which I think is mildly preferable to getting a lump sum at the start. But the trial mechs suck so we are still stuck and square one where something needs to be done... Test drive mechs I still a wonderful idea

[Redshift2k5]

The best fix for trial mechs is to stop using underpowered stock mechs.

For the month of April players will be able to use the community-created custom Heavy trial mech

http://mwomercs.com/...y-edition-poll/

[Syllogy]

But Trial Mechs are based on actual TT Builds!

They follow Canon, so they must be the best builds available!

[SerEdvard]

Just buff single heat sinks, and trial mechs will instantly become more viable.

[Tennex]

Make it so that 1.0 is heat efficient. Instead of having to be 1.3-1.6


Stock mechs run at around 1.0 (mwo scale) heat efficiency. I generally find that a 1.3-1.6 heat efficiency is ideal to be functional.

easy solution. shift the scale down, so that 1.0 is functional. and 1.4 is overkill. In custom builds, players will allocate more tonnage to weapons/armor/speed instead of heat sinks. and even custom builds start to look like trial mechs.

it seems like they settled on a heat system and has not toyed with it since. i would love to see a second draft.

Edited by Tennex, 27 March 2013 - 07:55 PM.

[Major Derps]

HereticalPsycho, on 25 March 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

giving new players a lump sum of money wont help. The way I see it, even with a test drive, which I think is a fantastic idea, players will just buy the biggest or the coolest looking. Effectively wasting the 5 million starter buff you gave them. I know personally I blew 3 mil on altering my engine only to work out I broke the entire system and ended up straight back where I started and missing 2 million c-bills. With the 5 million they will get one mech and if they made a wrong choice they are screwed for a substantial while. The trial mechs however allow you to pilot and get blown to pieces in a few different mechs, which I think is mildly preferable to getting a lump sum at the start. But the trial mechs suck so we are still stuck and square one where something needs to be done... Test drive mechs I still a wonderful idea

Yeah, I understand where your are coming from there, but I'm still making those mistakes now, that's how I find a build that works (although I do have a few more bills behind me now). But after pondering on your post, I agree the lump sum won't work by itself, as I first thought it would. It would only work that way, if we were refunded 100% on any items we sell. And PGI already killed half this thread with the player voted trial mechs (also point out by Redshift). So I'm feeling a little redundant now.

Tennex, on 26 March 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

would love to see a heat revision, where trial mechs zero the scale.

biggest issue new players have is heat. they have no idea why they all of a sudden can't move and explode.


Stock mechs run at around 1.0 (mwo scale) heat efficiency. I generally find that a 1.3-1.6 heat efficiency is ideal to be functional.

easy solution. shift the scale down, so that 1.0 is functional. and 1.4 is overkill. In custom builds, players will allocate more tonnage to weapons/armor/speed instead of heat sinks. and even custom builds start to look like trial mechs.

"but tennex! think of how OP the energy builds will be now!"
Thats won't be the case, because builds will still be restricted by hardpoints and tonnage.


it seems like they settled on a heat system and has not toyed with it since. i would love to see a second draft.

I'm a little unsympathetic there, there are training grounds and instructional videos. I personally am happy, and I think a rescale of the heat system would advantage seasoned player more than they would new players.

SerEdvard, on 26 March 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

Just buff single heat sinks, and trial mechs will instantly become more viable.

A simple, yet brilliant idea...I'm still baffled as to why PGI haven't done it already, it won't hurt to do it.

Edited by Mokey Mot, 27 March 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[HereticalPsycho]

Mokey Mot, on 27 March 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

Yeah, I understand where your are coming from there, but I'm still making those mistakes now, that's how I find a build that works (although I do have a few more bills behind me now). But after pondering on your post, I agree the lump sum won't work by itself, as I first thought it would. It would only work that way, if we were refunded 100% on any items we sell. And PGI already killed half this thread with the player voted trial mechs (also point out by Redshift). So I'm feeling a little redundant now.

yeah those mistakes while costing you money are a nice I wonder if this works sort of trade off for us that have been playing a while (personally I just blew 2.9 million on a spider and outfitted it with MG's just because), but new players aren't always going to have the patience to blow 3 million on a new build only to find you cant make it work or they overheat in 3 shots, so a temporary 1 week full refund system for newbies would be a nice way of validating your idea and letting them just screw with everything to get a feel with a temporary no repercussion system. Side note the fact that the refund is temporary should be VERY clear. I agree on its own the lump sum wont help but your full refund idea balances perfectly, it should be temporary and for new players only though in my opinion

[KableGuy]

HereticalPsycho, on 27 March 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

yeah those mistakes while costing you money are a nice I wonder if this works sort of trade off for us that have been playing a while (personally I just blew 2.9 million on a spider and outfitted it with MG's just because), but new players aren't always going to have the patience to blow 3 million on a new build only to find you cant make it work or they overheat in 3 shots, so a temporary 1 week full refund system for newbies would be a nice way of validating your idea and letting them just screw with everything to get a feel with a temporary no repercussion system. Side note the fact that the refund is temporary should be VERY clear. I agree on its own the lump sum wont help but your full refund idea balances perfectly, it should be temporary and for new players only though in my opinion

Why not just give them the lump sum at the END of the cadet buff and make sure they know it is coming, This way they will have a goal and gain some much needed experience at the same time. Also they will be better equipped to do something intelligent with the money they have EARNED.

Edited by BitMonger505, 27 March 2013 - 06:35 PM.

[Major Derps]

HereticalPsycho, on 27 March 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

yeah those mistakes while costing you money are a nice I wonder if this works sort of trade off for us that have been playing a while (personally I just blew 2.9 million on a spider and outfitted it with MG's just because), but new players aren't always going to have the patience to blow 3 million on a new build only to find you cant make it work or they overheat in 3 shots, so a temporary 1 week full refund system for newbies would be a nice way of validating your idea and letting them just screw with everything to get a feel with a temporary no repercussion system. Side note the fact that the refund is temporary should be VERY clear. I agree on its own the lump sum wont help but your full refund idea balances perfectly, it should be temporary and for new players only though in my opinion

Yeah, a 1 week full refund guarantee would be nice for cadets, but at the moment, maybe drop it to a 1 day refund system once the cadet period is over? I only say that, because with the balancing changing every month, effective builds change. I just blew about 6 mil, experimenting with new atlas builds...only to find how I had it was by far the best.

BitMonger505, on 27 March 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

Why not just give them the lump sum at the END of the cadet buff and make sure they know it is coming, This way they will have a goal and gain some much needed experience at the same time. Also they will be better equipped to do something intelligent with the money they have EARNED.

I just face palmed myself, I like that idea, why didn't I think of that?

[Targetloc]

Fixing the heat system would be a huge step towards fixing trial mechs.

[Major Derps]

Targetloc, on 27 March 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

Fixing the heat system would be a huge step towards fixing trial mechs.

I kinda like it, requires more thought than previous titles, just my opinion. I agree heat sinks could use a little buff though.

[WVAnonymous]

I hit "like" on the extra bonus at the end. I always plan on the extra 2 million CBills on top of any mech I buy for DHS plus the Endo or Artemis. CBills are free anyway, and anything to get new users hooked (buy two variants, and you just have to buy the third to get the double basic bonus) is a good suggestion.

[Elizander]

Mokey Mot, on 27 March 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

I kinda like it, requires more thought than previous titles, just my opinion. I agree heat sinks could use a little buff though.

I still think that they can still afford to buff engine SHS by 20%-40% and slap on Cool Shot 6 for free on all Trials without removing the 'need' to upgrade to better things.

Having 1 community or custom trial each cycle is an even better solution because I don't think people will stop complaining about it until all trials mechs match custom mechs in capability.

Edited by Elizander, 27 March 2013 - 08:37 PM.

[Targetloc]

Mokey Mot, on 27 March 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

I kinda like it, requires more thought than previous titles, just my opinion. I agree heat sinks could use a little buff though.

There's nothing really special about the MWO heat system. It works very similar to Mech2 and 3... at least in Mech4 your mech would chug and your HUD would fuzz out and glitch when you hit the upper portion of the heat bar.

One of the most telling issues IMO is they lowered Cool Run from one of the most expensive upgrades to dirt cheap, and buffed it big time since closed beta.

You know what I hear way too often on teamspeak? "Ug, new mech. Feels soooo gimped without cool run." Luckily at 750 XP that's only 1 or 2 matches. It's integral enough they made it cost a fraction of the other upgrades...

But it makes adventures in a trial mech that much more arduous.

Before Double Heatsinks, most mechs were carrying far fewer weapons than a similar weight TT mech. The fastest (cheapest) way to upgrade a HBK-4P is to rip off 3 lasers and add more heatsinks.

Stock mechs are over-weaponed and under-sinked.

[armyof1]

Slap DHS in all those trial mechs and we're basically good to go.

[Mahws]

In engine single heatsinks should be buffed to the same values as DHS. Wham, bam, trial mechs now viable, single heatsinks now viable, double heatsinks now a sidegrade rather than an instant free ten tonnes/slots of heatsinks.

Everything else in the game is a choice, with a downside to the advantage it gives you. DHS are just a straight upgrade and a massively advantageous one at that. Removing the in engine advantage makes them a space vs. weight comparison rather than a 1.5 million checkbox to make your mech viable.

Edited by Mahws, 27 March 2013 - 07:48 PM.

[HereticalPsycho]

armyof1, on 27 March 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Slap DHS in all those trial mechs and we're basically good to go.

That is a solid solution, but it does kind of shift away from the trial mechs being "just" a trial not a fully gears mech. Im actually impartial as to how they fix them, DHS or just better loadout designs but they are fine for older players as we should know better then to fire everything and shutdown, but since trials are all new players have... They need to have a chance at overheating just so new players learn heat management but it shouldn't be that bad

Mahws, on 27 March 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

In engine single heatsinks should be buffed to the same values as DHS. Wham, bam, trial mechs now viable, single heatsinks now viable, double heatsinks now a sidegrade rather than an instant free ten tonnes/slots of heatsinks.

maybe buff them to 75 or 80% of DHS inside the engine? should help make SHS more viable in trials and still get you a instant bonus for your 1.5 million

Edited by HereticalPsycho, 27 March 2013 - 07:59 PM.

[Mahws]

Nothing else gives me an instant bonus. Endo-steel and FF take up a huge amount of slots, Artemis costs tonnage and slots. Heck even ECM at least takes up space and 1.5 tonnes. When making a build I have to look at these things and decide "am I better off with or without them?".

That's almost never the case for DHS, they're a flat upgrade for 99% of builds. The only mechs where SHS are a real option is on sub 250 engine mechs that use ES/FF and medium laser boating AWS-Q's, for everything else it's ten tonnes and slots of free heatsinks advantage over a single heatsink using mech.

I'd certainly accept 75/80% improvement, but other than 'because canon says so' I've yet to hear a convincing argument as to why DHS should give a player a straight advantage over someone who hasn't saved up to buy them yet.

Edited by Mahws, 27 March 2013 - 08:28 PM.

[Major Derps]

HereticalPsycho, on 27 March 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

That is a solid solution, but it does kind of shift away from the trial mechs being "just" a trial not a fully gears mech. Im actually impartial as to how they fix them, DHS or just better loadout designs but they are fine for older players as we should know better then to fire everything and shutdown, but since trials are all new players have... They need to have a chance at overheating just so new players learn heat management but it shouldn't be that bad



maybe buff them to 75 or 80% of DHS inside the engine? should help make SHS more viable in trials and still get you a instant bonus for your 1.5 million

I like the engine heat sink buff, but like you said, only like 80%.