162 replies to this topic

[DKTuesday]

All right! Post count goes up!

Basically what this thread is for. Free posts for everyone!

[Aesthetech]

Roadbeer, on 26 March 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

Now you're just being pig-headed.

Yes, Community Warfare was listed on the Bill of Sale for development. Since you like peppering your posts with legal issues, at that point an argument could be made for malfeasance.

I don't think they would have been so careless as to not have their *** covered there, but if you've got a link/source I'm game.

[Mercules]

Aposiopesis, on 26 March 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

This is, quite frankly, not a very welcoming community at times.

Well, quiet frankly we have to deal with people denying evidence in front of them saying things like, "It's not a Beta." so often our patience for the silliness grows a bit thin.

Code is in a "beta state". Icon states Beta on it. Selling things has nothing to do with Beta status.

[Roadbeer]

Aposiopesis, on 26 March 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

As someone who wants the game to succeed, I would like the devs to show a little more commitment to their 'beta' tag and improve accessibility to new users with a bit less emphasis on trying to sell. I believe that if they find more of a balance point they might find more players willing to stay and pay money.

However, this thread is much more a criticism of the community than the devs. As a previous poster pointed out, the "it's a beta" mentality is much more prevalent among people with gold/orange/blue logos under their name than the devs. It tends to come off as quite elitist and does not do much to welcome new players, or find ways to help them adjust. This is, quite frankly, not a very welcoming community at times.

The lack of a New User experience proves that the game is still in BETA. Who in their right mind wouldn't want to make the game more accessible to a broad spectrum once it's been released. I'll go back to my very first BETA experience, Ultima Online, that game had a SUPER HUGE learning curve while still in BETA, little documentation and an almost required knowledge of the Ultima universe to understand WTF was going on.

DKTuesday, on 26 March 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

All right! Post count goes up!

Basically what this thread is for. Free posts for everyone!

Post. Always.

Aposiopesis, on 26 March 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

I don't think they would have been so careless as to not have their *** covered there, but if you've got a link/source I'm game.

Already gave you one. The fact that those statements were made prior to the release of the Founders Program, it stands to reason that it was a core tenant in the Bill of Sale.

I've said all the constructive things I'm going to on the topic. Back to trolling it.

Edited by Roadbeer, 26 March 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[Aesthetech]

LordRush, on 26 March 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

We paid for the DEVELOPMENT of CW, same thing.
If they came out tomorrow and said it wasnt going to happen, you would be hearing birds chirp the following day

Most likely, but barring possible issues with the bill of sale of the Founder's packages guaranteeing certain future features (as per the above), they'd still have whatever money you already gave to them.

Roadbeer, on 26 March 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

Already gave you one.

I meant in regards to the financial obligation towards CW, not the dev blog. My bad, should have been more clear.

[WVAnonymous]

TL;DR

Can we get a "this isn't really beta" aggregated thread pinned somewhere so I never have to read one of these again?

[JTAlweezy]

Totally dropped my cell phone

[skamage]

And I just added one more to my post count. Thank you OP!

[LordRush]

Aposiopesis, on 26 March 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

Most likely, but barring possible issues with the bill of sale of the Founder's packages guaranteeing certain future features (as per the above), they'd still have whatever money you already gave to them.



I meant in regards to the financial obligation towards CW, not the dev blog. My bad, should have been more clear.

Now, ask yourself this, if this is the case do you really think that money is still in the bank? It isn't. Again...not to go off topic but they have already stated where that money went. And it was NOT fully implemented into MWO.
Now, with the PAX delivery yesterday,the cat is out of the bag and as a founder, if you paid attention at all, you should be dumbfounded and disgusted. I do believe man you just simply are ignoring the facts or not interested in them.Either way, this all boils down to management

Edited by LordRush, 26 March 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[Aesthetech]

Roadbeer, on 26 March 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

The lack of a New User experience proves that the game is still in BETA.

The lack of a new user experience only proves a lack of commitment to a new user experience.

In the purely developmental sense of the word, as others have pointed out, if anything this is Alpha (I liked Alpeta, it made me hungry).

However, there's more to beta than just the state of code (else anything that is not performing up to expectations could simply be called beta, as long as it was labeled beta somewhere before it was provided). But this is a very longstanding topic that goes back well before PGI was even a thing (hence my use of an ancient Dilbert comic).

WVAnonymous, on 26 March 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

TL;DR

Can we get a "this isn't really beta" aggregated thread pinned somewhere so I never have to read one of these again?

That would be really stupid, so the chances of that happening are nil. What is more likely is this gets deleted or locked so it gets off the front page ASAP.

LordRush, on 26 March 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

Now, ask yourself this, if this is the case do you really think that money is still in the bank? It isn't. Again...not to go off topic but they have already stated where that money went. And it was NOT fully implemented into MWO.
Now, with the PAX delivery yesterday,the cat is out of the bag and as a founder, if you paid attention at all, you should be dumbfounded and disgusted. I do believe man you just simply are ignoring the facts or not interested in them.Either way, this all boils down to management

I'm under no delusions about the money. They could build teepees out of the dollar bills and retire to a life of nature. But to my knowledge, as far as legal obligations go, I bought beta access, existing features, and MC, not promises. I'm okay with that. I may not spend more money if they don't develop the game in a way I like, and may be very disappointed and not likely a future customer of the company in that case, but I do not have any outstanding issues with the services I have already purchased.

Edited by Aposiopesis, 26 March 2013 - 11:01 AM.

[Balfor]

The OP can write as much he wants, but:

A Programm that is Beta will stay Beta as long as the Developers say it is so.

[Aesthetech]

As a side note, I seem to have got this a bit off topic by having to restate what I already said in the OP that I am content with my own purchases and time in the game. This is more about the new player experience, the community, and how the "beta" tag is treated and the conversation should probably steer back in that direction (but I'm about to go to work. Joy of joys...)

[Vercinaigh]

hammerreborn, on 26 March 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

OH LOOK ITS THIS THREAD AGAIN

Star Citizen and Marvel Heroes are glad you just defined their games as release!

Edit: Oh, and also Banner Saga: factions and Path of Exile

Says the Spawn Team Killing baddie

[Sifright]

Not willing to read this thread because it's all been said a million times and denied another million times by battletech/MWO fanboys who would swear blind that up was down if it improved an outsiders perception of the game.

Fact mwo is a product.

Fact MWO as a product is out in the market.

Fact MWO has no barrier to entry.

Fact MWO heavily advertises else where.

Fact a product that is a availiable on the market is released regardless of whether it is working or not.

Fact software can be released in a beta alpha or fully working state.

Fact an Alpha build of software is feature incomplete.

Fact MWO is feature incomplete.

Fact MWO therefore is a released Alpha.

Fact every one that quibbles with the above is biased and has an agenda they are pushing.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

PANZERBUNNY, on 26 March 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

We all know how they treat people who are "pre ordering" or supporting through a founders program. ie. Ingoring them and attempt to move onto other gamer demographics to propr up the glass house.

Regardless of whether its not called "Beta" or not, its a live product that is both generating money(like a Live Game) and is still feature incomplete(Like a Beta Product).

What if I told you it was a Live Beta.

I know, crazy concept to grasp for some people.

Guess what, regardless of what you think, it is what is -- so by all means start trying to convince everyone of your moot ideas. Lose sleep over it, it means the world to everyone as of what the state of the game is called.

[Scryed]

Jetfire, on 26 March 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

It is not simply incomplete, it is inadequate. Anyone paying money now is effectively pre-ordering content with the option to use it during game development for testing purposes. Steam is now offering the same type of thing.

It is a BETA because it is not even close to considerable as a complete game. It is basically an engine with some content until CW and Lobby are introduced which will likely coincide with Launch.

LOLOLOL he thinks this game is getting a lobby ......


HAHAHAHAHHAHA




<LOLOLOLOL

[Precarious]

Syllogy, on 26 March 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

The Beta Development Phase generally begins when the software is feature complete.

The rational basis of this statement is that, once all the desired features are implemented, they can "tighten things up" and make everything function flawlessly. Here's the problem with your statement, though:

THEY ARE STILL ADDING FEATURES TO THE GAME.

So, you're wrong. I really hope you will accept this because if you cannot understand that adding a new feature to the game means that a new feature has been added to the game, I have no idea how you even managed to survive long enough to learn the English language and make a post on this forum.

[Metal Maverick]

This game is whatever PGI wants it to be. If you decide to play and put money in their pocket that's your choice.

The way I see it, it's like kickstarter. If you like the idea you can put money toward it to support it. Difference here is that you can also play the game and better decide for yourself if it's worth your money.

So many people lately are willing to drop tons of money on game potential without having hardly anything to go off of but hype. At least right now we can download and play the game quite a bit before we decide if it's worth our money.

[Utilyan]

I thought beta means "PART 2".

So we are playing mechwarrior online PART 2

Its just the title!......Mechwarrior online beta.


I remember playing ALPHA.........back in the day with just left turns.......feels like almost 20 years ago....back in the msn gaming zone.....was like a mechwarrior 2 or 3 mod or ww2 europe flight sim/fighter ace...... I bought a bunch of unlimited stuff then MFs think I don't remember they Should give me the stuff here too.

You got to remember WAY IN THE PAST. Like 1990s


Reason we got hardpoints now. Then we didn't have hardpoints. Its was cheesy tho cause you could calculate how much of a kill you got by machine gun ammo and just instantly kill folks.

Cheating and the accusations of cheating was bad.

The game packed up and disapeared.


Now the whole "beta" features not here, "game no play way i like"...... Man this ain't nothing compared to other betas in the past. Even games that weren't beta.....wwiionline


They can keep this beta forever..... they can do closed KAPPA mode

They should do CLOSED KAPPA MODE......its like non-whining STFUP and play mode. F2stfup.



It ain't money folks.....they can make money anytime they want. They could make a mech skin that says "IM with stupid -->" .......bout 30 mins of "work".....sell it for 3000mc and sure enough it would sell.

[nightsniper]

Wow I come back and the same old same old.

The topic and discussion seems stressful. Maybe we all need to get in a circle and hold hands and exhale.

This is a real beta no doubt about it. more like the old days long before we were spoiled by the big boys putting out finish product and having content to add. Not to mention this is a small company appox. 50 employees writing an very complicated game with a tough engine that does not have a long history. So innovation takes time. I was lucky to be at Pax East this weekend and on Sunday attended the discussion group with Bryan and Russ and Chris Roberts from Wing Commander. The video is here on the forums so you can hear the discussion first hand the great thing was the talk after one on one. I heard a lot from as the saying goes the horses mouth that made me very pleased. I now have my new computer set up after the early Beta melted the heatsinks off my north and south bridge and so I returned. Only to be greeted by the MD5 Hash issue which I still can not solve.

Any way I heard they believe launch is near and 12v12 is very near and their plan was to create not just a great game to continue the line of Mech genre games but a really great game with great visual as well as actual playability. They have had some challenges if I can be allowed to read a little between their lines who would not using an EA engine. You have to laugh as I did picking up the newspaper and seeing the EA CEO getting sacked for the sim collapse, Heck I cheered and my wife thinks I am really nuts. They deserve it for not finishing MPBT 3025, and yes I hold a grudge. To get back to Piranha yes they did do some crowd source funding in the founders packs and raised $5 million according to them (watch the video) why not get the community to invest. Works for me and these small independents really have no other choice. So unlike a couple of months ago when I was doubting this enterprise I can say that these guys are giving it 110%. It has not been easy on them as well as a mech starved horde.

Beta is a time to stretch your legs work through the crap and get the bugs out. They seem to be taking 3 steps forward and 2 back but the point is it is moving forward.

By the way in my opinion in a community getting frustrated and bitching is ok that is what having friends on line is all about just try to listen to the cooler heads and stay for your buddies who like you are hoping for a great game to play and drop once again together. Reminds me now of the Clint Eastwood, Tom lee Jones, Donald Sutherland, James Garner, and William Devane movie Space Cowboys. Maybe you should think about who here you would put in their place on the poster. Don't look in a mirror now you may scare yourself