152 replies to this topic

[jay35]

valkyrie, on 26 March 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

• Revise the ENTIRE Trial 'Mech system. I've since realize that the reason I'm so hopelessly outclassed at all times in WoT is because I'm not putting the time into each tank to upgrade it and make it viable because I'm busy tech rushing right to the tank I want. MWO doesn't have this issue since you just buy everything outright, but the Trial 'Mechs present a serious issue. They're very, very rarely competitive in the metagame at all - the Hunchback -4SP and Catapult -K2 having thus far been the sole exceptions.
  
• Chances are it would be far better to fully explain how the game and 'MechLab work, have the player play some in 'Mechs that are custom designed to help new players learn the system rather than designed for TT, then give them a free 'Mech of their own to continue tweaking and learning the ropes on - ideally a Hunchback of their choice, since it can easily fill almost any role sans "ECM *******." This way, they'll have an opportunity to learn different playstyles and have something that could actually be rebuilt to stay competitive, as well as start them on the right foot towards whatever ride they eventually decide they really want.
  
• Of course, if they like the game enough to want to buy a 'Mech outright with MC, that's fine too - perhaps give them a one-time "new player discount" on a stock (read: non-Hero) 'Mech option instead of the free Hunchback. However, to get them to stay long enough to spend money, they have to actually like the game first, which will be greatly helped by the aforementioned tutorial far more than something like 3PV.

This is a fantastic suggestion and I hope PGI give it strong consideration. Well done.

[Huoshini]

That was a great opening post. Thank you for that.

Now if PGIGP were to actually read that and use it.....that's a whole 'nother story. The trial mech system is ....ok.....but the problem lies with no real guided "progression" which is good for vets of games like this but bad for newer players. Also, there is nothing to aim for in MWO. Yeah, we can master mechs all day long but at the end of the day, there are no leagues, achievements, unlocks for being awesome and so on. I am not saying that I personally care for they stuff because I just play a game for the action, not the gratification of stuff.

[Cik]

please do not use LoL or WoT as things to emulate, both are **** games with **** F2P. only use them as stores of things not to do. thanks.

[Monky]

Solid critique and suggestions OP.

[EmeraldSongbird]

Do what shooters do, create some form of XP counter and levels then add a "Beginner" option to the game search that accepts players under a particular level. Keeps the big boys away. That and for playing in that mode they get 25% more exp and GP maybe.

Edited by Doobles, 28 March 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Beef Hands, on 28 March 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

Mechwarrior has never been new player friendly. This is not the call of duty crowd and I have no problem throwing my money at this project to keep it on track so it doesn't have to kowtow to the moronic masses. Sorry about your unpleasant WoT experience. It brings a tear to my eye that newbs are still getting stomped just because they lack experience with gameplay, familiarity with core tactical concepts, and mastery of basic controls. When I first played CS 1.6 I was awful, but I got better by emulating better players, when I started WoT I was awful, but I got better by emulating better players, when I started EVE I got faceraped by goonswarm and got better by emulating better players, etc. ad infinitum. MWO may be tricky to grasp at first, but any grown human could master this game, it's really not that difficult.

Funny, I recall playing CS once at a friend's house in middle school. I got stomped and flamed so hard the next time I played a PC FPS was in 2009 (more than 10 years later) and it was single-player. For a decade I stuck to RTS, sim, and arpg games due to that first experience.

That kind of experience is what we want to avoid by having a tutorial.

[Bishop Steiner]

@Houshini,

Matt from pgi already posted and commented. Usually a good start.

[Demoned]

Doobles, on 28 March 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

Do what shooters do, create some form of XP counter and levels then add a "Beginner" option to the game search that accepts players under a particular level. Keeps the big boys away. That and for playing in that mode they get 25% more exp and GP maybe.

You'll find, with WoT anyway, a lot of the higher ranked players play tier 2 tanks for the sheer fun of it, the higher tier games can be just as frustrating as games in MW:O.

and even WoT didn't have a tutorial till much latter on in its life, say about 2 years in (from open)

[Gopblin]

I'd say WoT isn't exactly "pay-to-win":
- gold tanks are actually inferior to many normal tanks (except T2)
- gold ammo does have more pen, but it's expensive as balls and generally doesn't do more damage, making you pay out the nose for being a bit more lenient with your aim
- premium account doesn't give any special benefits except increased income and the ability to create platoons/companies (but anyone can join them)

In general, based on my extensive experience with WoT and very limited MWO experience, I'd say the following:
- WoT has more balance/equality because MWO has more customization (there's really only one model for most tanks, zero reason to use anything but the top-tier engine or tracks in WoT, some tanks can choose between two guns one of which is better for pubs and another better for organized play)
- Therefore, WoT is more suited for competition while MWO is more suited for pub play (because the playing field is more level in WoT). I may be wrong here as I don't actually play MWO competitively, in fact I'm a total noob still. This is just a guess
- WoT in general has better teamplay/tactics due to better interface and actual voice chat for organized play
- MWO has better brawling due to a more advanced combat system and greater variety
- WoT is a lot easier to learn while being actually quite complex on the inside

Etc etc. Basically I'd agree that MWO is a better game but WoT has a lot of advantages, especially in being easier to master for novice gamers. The difference is somewhat akin to the difference between HOMM and Dominions, although not as deep. I do agree that with some easy steps this game could be a lot more popular.

PS. BTW after reading the excellent new player guide from the forums I was able to drop in the games with trial mechs and do OK (had a few 3-kill streaks in my first 20 games). However, I wasted a lot of money by not understanding some things about mechlab, so had to grind another account in order to get back the Cadet bonus money . So yeah, this game could use a lot more tutorials, as well as some interface tweaks - e.g. the WoT or PS2 map/minimap are a lot more intuitive and easier to read.

Best wishes,
Daniel

[TruePoindexter]

Great post valkyrie. Just before taking a two month hiatus I conducted an experiment creating an alt account and seeing for myself what it was like to start from scratch. It was painful. it wasn't intolerable - but was very very painful. I agree with your points especially the scripted tutorial. It needs it!

[Wrenchfarm]

TruePoindexter, on 28 March 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Great post valkyrie. Just before taking a two month hiatus I conducted an experiment creating an alt account and seeing for myself what it was like to start from scratch. It was painful. it wasn't intolerable - but was very very painful. I agree with your points especially the scripted tutorial. It needs it!

Keep in mind you have months of experience under your belt and know the difference between a good mech and bad one. Imagine how bewildering it is for a truly new player!

[TruePoindexter]

Wrenchfarm, on 28 March 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Keep in mind you have months of experience under your belt and know the difference between a good mech and bad one. Imagine how bewildering it is for a truly new player!

Exactly! Struggling through earning C-Bills for a first mech is harsh even when knowing which trial gives you the best starting point. Imagining it from the point of view of someone who knows nothing about MWO is just painful.

[Yogiyosh]

Admittedly I'm a total noob with too much time on my hands! And that is the only reason I've stuck with MWO. A real shame this isn't noob friendly, because if I had less time and a lower IQ, I'd have been put off within the first 5 minutes! There should, without question, be a buffer zone before being thrown to the sharks as my stats will affirm that.
I do like MWO and have even thrown some cash into the game, in the vain hope of getting a decent set up and a few more kills. But as a solo player, I'm definately beginning to think that playing lonestar is not going to do me any favours and have been contemplating joining a house, which you shouldn't really feel obligated to do. But how else are you going to try and get on? Because there's little to no training options, little to no advice or help on loadouts either (which was very, very daunting first time around.)
These are minor gripes, but necessary ones, as when I get bored, I then jump into WoT for some more exciting action. At least you're not punished for flying solo in WoT...and it's got a new tutorial!!
I really do want to like this game and I can see why not enough people are swelling the ranks of mech pilots. At this rate, MWO will only appeal to a very niche, hardcore, corner of the internet..quite possibly to the point of becoming extinct too soon.
I'm not going to offer any solutions, because all too many people are already doing it and quite possibly, none of these ideas are being implemented.
So, for the time being, I'm going to see how far MWO goes, because currently it could swing either way and only the devs can avert an outright flop...up to you guys, make us noobs feel at home and loved......please!

Edited by Yogiyosh, 28 March 2013 - 04:02 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Irvine, on 28 March 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

I'm sorry but when CoD must have done something right when it consistently has a giant player-base/revenue. Call of Duty actually has a good new player experience.

But this is MWO, not CoD or WoT. Not everything is the same.

[valkyrie]

Merchant, on 28 March 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

But this is MWO, not CoD or WoT. Not everything is the same.

You're right. 100% right. This isn't CoD, or WoT, but both games have a description that's gained them a large userbase - easy to learn, hard to master. Right now, learning MWO in comparison is like trying to decipher the Rosetta Stone for anyone who has never played a MechWarrior game before. Again, vids are helpful, but people have very little patience when it comes to video games these days. PGI needs to get players doing hands on things to learn the ropes as quickly as possible once the game is downloaded, or these players will seek instant gratification elsewhere.

This isn't to say that we need to start adding big "+100 ENEMY MECH DESTROYED" splashes over your crosshair, but something has to be done to make new players feel like they're accomplishing something. Right now the NPE is about as rewarding as playing "pin the tail on the Bengal tiger."

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

Stopped reading at "weeaboo"

[Vassago Rain]

Bump.

[Bishop Steiner]

bump to Vassagos bump

[Wildstreak]

valkyrie, on 28 March 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

You're right. 100% right. This isn't CoD, or WoT, but both games have a description that's gained them a large userbase - easy to learn, hard to master.

A bunch of games are like that and I am all in favor of making MWO easier to learn though the attempt to remove SHS is silly to me. However I have seen CoD and WoT used in comparison to this game in ways they should not be compared. Point is you have to be particular in what you compare from different games else it raises the question why have different games of the same type when only 1 will do.

[Peiper]

The tutorial could be simply an obstacle course and a firing range pop-up targets and duck-train style moving targets. If you successfully navigate the obstacle course, and are able to hit some of the targets, you can 'qualify' to be a mechwarrior and enter the game proper. The tutorial can always be accessed even after you've done it to practice and measure your skills.

This is the one place 3rd person could really help too, though I am an opponent to putting it into the game proper. You can run it both ways, so you get the idea of how a mech moves, centering torso-to-legs, etc.... This is the toughest thing for new players to understand, and being able to SEE how your legs are moving independently from your torso would go a long way toward not embarrassing yourself spending you first matches hung up on buildings and other mechs. Even with the 3rd person option, a player would have to qualify in 1st person to unlock the rest of the game.

Another drop in the bucket...