31 replies to this topic

[Nonsense]

Every single game I play has absolutely terrible players on both teams. Multiple heavies and assaults doing 27 damage, lights running around thinking they can win a conquest game when it's 1v8, etc. We're talking people who not only have no idea how to configure a Mech*** but they also have no idea how to play games in general. Either that or the objectives in the game are incomprehensible to these people. If I weren't so discouraged and annoyed, I'd try to remember the 50 examples of absolutely idiotic behavior I've witnessed while playing this game. This is on top of the fact that frequently the matchmaker gives you games with absolutely mismatched tonnages, i.e. one team has ~3 DDC atlases and the other has one Founders atlas and an awesome. Sometimes I benefit from this, sometimes I don't.

That said, the biggest problem isn't the mismatching or the disconnects, it's the newbie players being matched with veterans. For the sake of the newbs AND the veterans, I implore you, PGI...DO SOMETHING TO SEPARATE NEWBS UNTIL THEY GET SOME EXPERIENCE. It sucks for both groups to play together, especially when the communication options within the game are sub-par and there's little to no chance the newbs will learn anything from their failures. Newbs feel like they get owned and veterans feel let down by their teammates.

League of Legends is the best example I can think of that attempts to combat this. They have a 1-30 leveling system on top of their Elo ranking. You can't compete in ranked games until you level to 30, and that takes quite a few games. During this time, the matchmaker attempts to match people with others around their level. Does that mean you never have a terrible, uncooperative player on your team? No, of course you do, but it's generally less frequent in my experience.

Don't want to copy LoL? Fine, but please come up with something similar, then. I like this game and I want to stick with it and I hope it does well because I love the franchise, but every time I think of loading up the game to play I think of all the terrible players I'll be matched with. Having high Elo means nothing when you still get matched with people who run off by themselves straight at the enemy team and do 23 total damage. Even in a well designed and maneuverable mech, the nature of Mech combat and heavy armor means you can't carry games of MWO the way you can carry games of LoL or FPS games. This makes teamwork very important and PUG games are naturally devoid of it.

Handle it, please! I'd love to spend more money on this game but I'm losing confidence that the devs are tuned in to this problem AT ALL. These issues are combining to make the game somewhat awful. I realize it's still "beta", but I'd reeeeeeaaallly like to see some effort to fix it, especially with Community Warfare supposedly right around the corner.

***I'm sure you all have a favorite example of the worst or most underpowered build you've seen...the assault mech that has the loadout of a heavy or medium mech and you're wondering where the rest of their tonnage went.

[MadPanda]

I agree.

[Roughneck45]

Yes, a level based system to represent experience in the game would be good. Could make the pilot trees worth xp as well.

[MrPenguin]

Nonsense, on 26 March 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

League of Legends is the best example I can think of that attempts to combat this.

Oh, you mean that game thats infamously known for having the highest smurf count of any game out there right now?

Edited by MrPenguin, 26 March 2013 - 07:32 PM.

[Jonathan Paine]

Use Elo to create tiers. Add cadets as the (temporarily) lowest tier. Cadet > Green > Veteran > Elite (for example). Don't let the matchmaker put Cadets against anything but:
Cadets and Greens.

Now to be outrageous and continue down the path to separation anxiety
Greens can ONLY play with and against Cadets/Greens/Veterans
Veterans can ONLY play against Greens/Veterans/Elite
Elite can ONLY play against Veterans/Elite

Might prevent some of the weird 8 - 0 matches that still happen.

Thoughts?

[MadPanda]

Jonathan Paine, on 26 March 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

Use Elo to create tiers. Add cadets as the (temporarily) lowest tier. Cadet > Green > Veteran > Elite (for example). Don't let the matchmaker put Cadets against anything but:
Cadets and Greens.

Now to be outrageous and continue down the path to separation anxiety
Greens can ONLY play with and against Cadets/Greens/Veterans
Veterans can ONLY play against Greens/Veterans/Elite
Elite can ONLY play against Veterans/Elite

Might prevent some of the weird 8 - 0 matches that still happen.

Thoughts?

Nice. I like this idea.

[Roadbeer]

I don't disagree that, occasionally, you run into a ROFLSTOMP having to do with bad n00bs, but I can't entirely back up your premise or your suggestions.

I have to say, that while the weight matching is COMPLETELY out of whack, I'm not getting the relentless 8-0/0-8 matches I was getting a couple months ago... most of the time they're a lot closer.

At least for me. Maybe it's the people I'm grouping with, I can't honestly say. but out of 15 drops tonight, there were only 2 that were severely lopsided.

So, I guess all I have to say about the system as it stands now is YMMV

Jonathan Paine, on 26 March 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

Use Elo to create tiers. Add cadets as the (temporarily) lowest tier. Cadet > Green > Veteran > Elite (for example). Don't let the matchmaker put Cadets against anything but:
Cadets and Greens.

Now to be outrageous and continue down the path to separation anxiety
Greens can ONLY play with and against Cadets/Greens/Veterans
Veterans can ONLY play against Greens/Veterans/Elite
Elite can ONLY play against Veterans/Elite

Might prevent some of the weird 8 - 0 matches that still happen.

Thoughts?

I am Roadbeer, and I approve this message.

That's twice today that MadPanda and I have agreed on something, I'm going to go buy a lottery ticket now.

[armyof1]

As mentioned above, we really need some harder lines drawn between different levels of ELO, the current system of "Sum of ELO is kinda equal between teams" is just not working out. As it is now I find even 8-4 matches are pretty rare.

Edited by armyof1, 26 March 2013 - 08:10 PM.

[MrPenguin]

Roadbeer, on 26 March 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

I don't disagree that, occasionally, you run into a ROFLSTOMP having to do with bad n00bs, but I can't entirely back up your premise or your suggestions.

I have to say, that while the weight matching is COMPLETELY out of whack, I'm not getting the relentless 8-0/0-8 matches I was getting a couple months ago... most of the time they're a lot closer.

At least for me. Maybe it's the people I'm grouping with, I can't honestly say. but out of 15 drops tonight, there were only 2 that were severely lopsided.

So, I guess all I have to say about the system as it stands now is YMMV



I am Roadbeer, and I approve this message.

That's twice today that MadPanda and I have agreed on something, I'm going to go buy a lottery ticket now.

Its the plug-in air freshener.

[Mister Blastman]

I have a theory and it is that ELO is working... but...

It is counting brand new players with 0 - 50 drops and a base ELO score as the same as a player that has 100's of drops and their score remains at the base level.

I think PGI could solve this by preventing warriors with less than 50 drops from being put into games with players that have hundreds or thousands of drops.

[Teralitha]

We already know they can do a 'games played' stat, like they did in the first tourney... This should work for matchmaking too.

[Nonsense]

Good suggestions/discussion so far, gents...keep it up.

MrPenguin, on 26 March 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

Oh, you mean that game thats infamously known for having the highest smurf count of any game out there right now?

Yes, smurfing is a thing, but especially at high levels you really need the variety of several unlocked champions to really compete in LoL. For MWO, hopefully Community Warfare will provide enough incentive in the form of bonuses or whatever that you won't really want to smurf.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

Jonathan Paine, on 26 March 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

Use Elo to create tiers. Add cadets as the (temporarily) lowest tier. Cadet > Green > Veteran > Elite (for example). Don't let the matchmaker put Cadets against anything but:
Cadets and Greens.

Now to be outrageous and continue down the path to separation anxiety
Greens can ONLY play with and against Cadets/Greens/Veterans
Veterans can ONLY play against Greens/Veterans/Elite
Elite can ONLY play against Veterans/Elite

Might prevent some of the weird 8 - 0 matches that still happen.

Thoughts?

perhaps... perhaps...

But I kind of think Elo simply does not work when you mix groups with solos, so it isn't really an effective metric to put in to the equation. And I don't think groups and solos need to be segregated, just balanced.

[Noobzorz]

My matches are pretty close generally.

I've had a string of pretty crappy ones this evening (I think I'm 1-7 for the night), only two of which I colossally screwed up in, but that's what happens when you have 8 man teams with no snowball mechanic, and they were all at least close. Hopefully I'll have a nice 7-1 regression shortly.

Warrax the Chaos Warrior, on 26 March 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

perhaps... perhaps...

But I kind of think Elo simply does not work when you mix groups with solos, so it isn't really an effective metric to put in to the equation. And I don't think groups and solos need to be segregated, just balanced.

That like was for the first sentence of the post. I think that LoL, WC3, SC2, and the like have demonstrated, manifestly, that if you want to have a good system, you absolutely have to segregate solos and groups.

Edited by Noobzorz, 26 March 2013 - 08:55 PM.

[Utilyan]

How bout a option before drop of powergamer or playground?

Personally i'm less inclined to power game unless theres a meta objective like community warfare.


I don't own a splat-cat, raven-3l, cata-3d..........YET. My atlas has machine guns and flamers. My awsome has a flame sword. I have a cicada 3c and a jager-dd with machineguns and flamers. I got a hunchback with flamers, even done a TAG-BACK. I got a trebuchet that shoots LRM 20s....through the narc tube. I got 2 wanabe urbanmech spiders.

I could prob do way better in anything else. Its certainly better training, I guarantee you run a MG/flamer cicada for a month your going to come back a more dangerous pilot. Not crappier, they take more discipline.

Ive made OPmechs that just flat out destroy mechs to the point people on my own team are laughing.......and its like I know this mech makes me feel so dirty.

If it does more then 1500 damage im done with it.....

Its more fun to make a mech thats memorable.


Theres a paradox to powergaming and just having fun. Fun might be all toys but playing can be the most serious focus, Theres a complacency in using best all the time......

[Jonathan Paine]

Weight matching is, of course, still a must

[Primetimex]

It also does not help when veteran players like me type what I think is helpful information about the enemy, their movements, and their next intended action and noobs tell me to ****.

Those noobs then proceeded to get their behinds kicked real hard - it is then I feel like DC'ing straight away - rather than wasting any more of my time.

People say use the chat more but there are certain players who don't want to chat at all or improve themselves they'd rather just do their own thing.

[Hedonism Robot]

Warrax the Chaos Warrior, on 26 March 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

perhaps... perhaps...

But I kind of think Elo simply does not work when you mix groups with solos, so it isn't really an effective metric to put in to the equation. And I don't think groups and solos need to be segregated, just balanced.

ELO would work better with groups of 2 rather than four. I agree that it's current implementation could use some work but things are much better than they were before.

Edited by Hedonism Robot, 26 March 2013 - 09:53 PM.

[ProtoformX]

Primetimex, on 26 March 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

It also does not help when veteran players like me type what I think is helpful information about the enemy, their movements, and their next intended action and noobs tell me to ****.

Those noobs then proceeded to get their behinds kicked real hard - it is then I feel like DC'ing straight away - rather than wasting any more of my time.

People say use the chat more but there are certain players who don't want to chat at all or improve themselves they'd rather just do their own thing.

Yeah man, I encountered this frequently. Now I just shut up and let them kill themselves. It's not worth the hassle.

[Noobzorz]

ProtoformX, on 26 March 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

Yeah man, I encountered this frequently. Now I just shut up and let them kill themselves. It's not worth the hassle.

They should be straight up ripping off LoL / DotA and get a big ol' report system going. While it's true that most people who get reported never get disciplined, having a karma / report system is definitely an important part of the infrastructure that causes LoL or DotA to be taken so seriously.

If PGI takes the right approach and attempts to ripoff LoL or DotA, it's going to colossally improve the player experience. After all, the average moron bronze league solo queuer is well versed in the meta and has a strong grasp of game fundamentals that makes the average MWO pugger look decidedly unsophisticated, and there is no way that it is because the MWO player is dumber.