30 replies to this topic

[ElLocoMarko]

Let's just ignore that ECM gave a monopoly on streak missiles to exactly two mechs.

Let us fire all weapons at all opponents please. Or give us all ECM. Or give us all ECCM (counter mode only).
End the monopoly.

Edited by ElLocoMarko, 27 March 2013 - 09:54 AM.

[Asakara]

A salvo of streaks from a raven went from 10 damage to 6 damage, a 40% damage nerf. Streaks, once locked are supposed to hit 100% but they do not (I am at 75% myself), yet my manually aimed medium lasers have a 92% hit rate. One medium laser now does almost as much damage (5), while weighing less, with a better max range, and not requiring any ammo when compared to 2 X SSRM launchers. Therefore streaks are fine in my book.

[Coolant]

to OP, your post is really hard to read (formatting). Hotfix was temporary (probably).

[Dagger906]

They hit you if you're not moving. Start moving.

They hit your center torso if you're not turning. Start turning.

In short, learn the game.

[Vapor Trail]

ElLocoMarko, on 27 March 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

Let's just ignore that ECM gave a monopoly on streak missiles to exactly two mechs.

Technically it's 3 mechs. The D-DC can use streaks just as well as the 3L and the 2D. It just doesn't very often because the 3x LRM15 is likely to be able cause more damage because the D-DC isn't very fast.

But I agree where you're coming from. Direct missile fire shouldn't be affected by Guardian ECM.

[Alistair Winter]

I don't understand how the solution to this problem can elude so many players, let alone the devs themselves.

1) Fixing ECM doesn't solve the problem. Even if ECM has no effect on target lock, making Jenners a viable choice again, it doesn't change the fact that Streaks are considerably better than all other weapons, except for a very small group of players with extraordinary aim and very low ping. While streaks may miss by hitting terrain, they will always hit a target on open ground. That is an incomparable advantage.

2) Fixing the Raven 3L doesn't solve the problem. A Commando with Streaks is still much deadlier than a Commando with Medium Lasers, 99% of the time.

3) Fixing collision and knockdowns doesn't solve the problem. It nerfs all lights, and makes all light mechs without missiles even more useless than before.

4) The "learn to play" and "just use cover" arguments are pointless. There are maps with very little cover, and that's good. Every map shouldn't be filled entirely with buildings and hills. And saying "learn to play" to the majority of players makes no sense, especially when Streaks have been a problem for an extended period of time. Some people were saying "Don't worry, the metagame will change and people will find a way to deal with it." Take a look around. It's not happening.

[Kdogg788]

sC4r, on 27 March 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

you know what is funny?
most peeps i asked about their ssrm hit rate had it around 70%... doesnt sound so unrealistic
dont ask about mine... never used ssrms since introduction of stats

70% because those missiles are impacting terrain and obstructions or max out their range, not because they fail to track. It's the tracking aspect of the streaks that needs to be toned down and the ability to maintain lock with the reticule nowhere near the target.

-k

[Dishevel]

Voridan Atreides, on 27 March 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

They are not fine. There hit rate is very unrealistic.

The hit rate of a guided missile fired from within a few hundred meters 1000 years from now at something bigger than a semi truck travelling 40 - 80 mph is unrealistic?
So it hits what ??? 900% of the time?

[Kdogg788]

Dishevel, on 27 March 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

The hit rate of a guided missile fired from within a few hundred meters 1000 years from now at something bigger than a semi truck travelling 40 - 80 mph is unrealistic?
So it hits what ??? 900% of the time?

If you wanted to apply real life physics and technology to Mechwarrior it just won't work. You could also say that by that point there would be targeting computers to place all your laser and ballistic shots on mark as well. Streak lock characteristics should be re-examined to balance a video game, not actual combat in the year 3050, if humans are still around by then.

-k

[Vapor Trail]

Dagger906, on 27 March 2013 - 10:26 AM, said:

They hit you if you're not moving. Start moving.

They hit your center torso if you're not turning. Start turning.

In short, learn the game.

Due to splash, even when they don't hit the CT... they generally hit the CT.

It's less apparent now, due to the restricted splash, but to stay in line with TT they should be damaging only one section.

Frankly, any given missile salvo should be dealing only ~20% of it's total damage to the CT, on average, if you want something close to TT rule distribution. Each other location has a lower distribution (between 10 and 18%... would have to calculate it out to get closer than that), except the head, which should have, on average, only about 2.78% of the damage of an average missile salvo.

So for an SSRM 2, on average, a mech should see an average of 0.0695 damage/missile applied to the head (or death by headshot, on average, in more than four tons of ammo).

Also for an SSRM 2, on average, a mech should see an average of 1 damage/shot (20% of 5 damage) applied to the CT. For a light mech with a ton of armor on the CT front (and 16 internals, for a total of 48 damage to kill) should die, on average, in about half a ton of ammo expended. For a mech with 3 SSRM2 launchers (and firing only those), that's a kill in 16 salvos, on average.

Which is almost a minute of continuous Streak fire.

To extrapolate to C-SSRM6 launchers on a boat... lets say six launchers. 36 missiles, 90 damage.

Headshot kill in 13 salvos.

CT Kill on a mech with a ton of armor on the CT and 16 internals (48 damage to kill), 3 salvo kill (roughly 10.5 seconds... minimum, depends on the cycle time of the C-SSRM6).

Haven't run the numbers on actual performance, but just from what I've seen, Streaks are alot closer to inline with this than they were previously.

[Gaan Cathal]

Asakara, on 27 March 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

A salvo of streaks from a raven went from 10 damage to 6 damage, a 40% damage nerf. Streaks, once locked are supposed to hit 100% but they do not (I am at 75% myself), yet my manually aimed medium lasers have a 92% hit rate. One medium laser now does almost as much damage (5), while weighing less, with a better max range, and not requiring any ammo when compared to 2 X SSRM launchers. Therefore streaks are fine in my book.

OK. Being honest and admitting that Streak and Artemis IV are both upgrades for SRMs...

Artemis IV SRM2 - Slots 2, Tons 2 = Upgrade Cost of 1 Slot, 1 Ton
Streak SRM2 - Slots 1, Tons 1.5 = Upgrade Cost of 0 Slot, 0.5 Ton

Artemis IV SRM4 - Slots 2, Tons 3 = Upgrade Cost of 1 Slot, 1 Ton
Streak SRM4 - Slots 1, Tons 3 = Upgrade Cost of 0 Slot, 1 Ton

Artemis IV SRM6 - Slots 3, Tons 4 = Upgrade Cost of 1 Slot, 1 Ton
Streak SRM6 - Slots 2, Tons 4.5 = Upgrade Cost of 0 Slot, 1.5 Ton


So. Streak, the clearly superior upgrade (sorry if you disagree, but I don't think it's tenable to hold that not needing to aim, not needing to lead, having 75%+ guaranteed accuracy and seeking to CT are not a colossal upgrade over a tighter grouping) is cheaper than Artemis IV except, arguably, in the case of SRM6 where it costs an entire half ton more - on the launcher that benefits the most from the power disparity.

For anyone about to argue that we don't have SRM4/6 yet - Firstly, we will have them, and the problem is the core mechanic balance, so it's best to fix it before they come in. Secondly, I run an AIV 6-pack on my Raven, because I prefer the bigger punch when going hit-and-run against large targets. It means I generally loose in a light-mech duel against a pilot of my own skill (in a halfway competitive light) and is by and large a slightly inferior loadout to paired SSRM2s. A slightly inferior loadout that I pay a ton for the privilege of having to aim, instead of running on lazymode.

Streaks are not fine.