30 replies to this topic

[Aim64C]

I think the simple solution is to make ECM not effective against streaks.

The way I envision streaks is similar to an IR guided missile. I realize this is "inconsistent" with portions of the lore - but reading the descriptions of LRMs and Artemis makes me think of Command Guidance versus Semi-Active Radar Homing.

The descriptions of streaks make no sense, functionally, (unless SRMs are supposed to home rather than be a sort of rocket launcher) - and I think of them as more like IR guided "dogfight" missiles that should be relatively hardened against ECM.

Of course, why no one has come up with an anti-radiation/Home-On-Jam mode for LRMs is beyond me (the lore says that it was created and 'defeated' by better ECM... which doesn't make any functional sense, either - as anti-radiation modes home in on the point source of radar/radio emissions... changing the color/pattern of flashing lights doesn't affect something designed to home in on sources of light in general). But if this were a "If Battletech Were Real" scenario - missiles would be the dominant weapon in the game, gauss rifles would generate large amounts of heat (but have very high ammunition capacity), and ballistic weapons, when they hit, would just rip the bejesus out of you.

[CrashieJ]

the fact is, the ECM/Streak/PPC/Narc/Tag debacle is what's creating this sludge of a mess.

Narc and locks are countered by ECM, then is counteracted by PPC, and Tag.

PPCs can keep their scrambling ability
Tag works inside 180m but only helps the user
Narc is active inside ECM only in LOS
Streaks have their Lockon removed but is given a hitscan with simple AI (ie. no 180 flips)

there are many solutions where people can have their cake and eat it too, but right now, the other guy takes both cakes and leaves the first guy bleeding on the floor

[RealityCheck]

I am an avid Cicada pilot. I've had a lot of experience with them and know that tangling with a light mech isn't on top of the bright ideas list. Still, I've managed to outmanuever some light mech pilots and come out on top. The fights are intense and extremely fun (even if its glorified circle strafing). I will tip my hat off to any light pilot who can outshoot me by aiming. However, lights with streaks always end up on top unless I make it back to friendlies (and sometimes I still die). Light mechs are a weakness of Cicadas, but streaks really just put the nail in the coffin...

RealityCheck

[Mypa333]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 28 March 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

ECM capable mechs should not be able to fire their streaks unless on counter, disrupt should disrupt their streaks too.

I totally agree with this.

focuspark, on 28 March 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

Loss of lockon would help balance SSRM a lot. Really sick of missiles taking a "J" path to hit me over a mech's shoulder.

"j" path is too less to say. I play a spider, whenever i get a ssrm lockon, the damn streaks CIRCLE me, until they hit my torso. Not "j" patch, they stick to me and CIRCLE me. That's bad, really bad.

Swiffllama, on 28 March 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

Wow, some of these posts are out there! SSRM's do a whopping 4 damage. You are talking about a weapon that does less damage than a medium laser. Yes, they lock on and track. That's what SSRM's are supposed to do. Once they lock they don't miss (TT that is). Taking away staying locked won't matter one lick. And for those that think SSRM hit every single time you are absolutely wrong. My hit % for streaks is just a touch over 80%. My hit % for medium lasers..... 94%!!!!! And the combo of ECM and SSRM is just a part of the game. Just fix ECM!!! I am really beginning to think that everyone that gets on here to cry for a nerf is just a horrible pilot boohooing because someone killed them. It's really getting to a sad point. Almost all of my kills in my 3L are laser kills. SSRM's do exactly what they are supposed to do and soften the opponent up. Want to see how "Overpowered" they are. Take a mech with 2SSRM's into the training grounds, find a medium size mech and stand in front of it and shoot. Let me know if you kill it before you run out of ammo.

I was sure after your first words that you play a 3L. Please add some SRMs, not SSRMs and then will see how your lasers aim make you a better pilot. At least stop being fake and pretending that the streaks don't help you big time.

focuspark, on 28 March 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

WTF game are you playing? SSRM did 5 damage up until mid-this-week. Now they do 3 damage; nearly always to CT and they can make 180 degree turns to hunt their targets down.

Seriously, know your stuff before you start spouting off.

As I said above, SSrms circle me if they are shot besides me or in a position where the RAVEN 3L is not facing.

RAVENS SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SHOOT THE SSRMS when on DISRUPT. Damn ravens, i can't enjoy a ride in a light because i'm getting hunted by the SO SKILLED Raven 3L pilots.

[Skunk Wolf]

Streaks are image recognition/heat guided.

They should be completely unaffected by ECM.

No.

What are you guys going to do when the SSRM-6's come for you?

Or get legged by a CERLL at 1500 M ?

Or cored by dual UAC20's?

Clan ECM is supposed to be way better.

[Ignatz22]

Tarvitz, on 27 March 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

This seems like an unfair combination when it comes to light mechs. At the moment a fair number of light classes are now capable of taking ECM. It effectively removes light mechs' biggest weakness, target locks from missiles both at close ranges. This might not be so much of a problem were it not for the fact the game does nothing to hinder a light mech from using the very weapons they are now immune to.

This seems like a very unfair advantage. Along with being able to stay completely out of sight of any large mech and block the weapons which can most effectively hit them, they can constantly destroy their front armour from any position. This makes the task of taking out anything from a medium to an assault extremely easy.
If you're going to give them ECM you could at least stop them from using the very weapons now useless against them.

"Easy?"
"Did you say,'Easy'?"
"NOTHING is EASY until WE say it is!"

Ok, have you ever piloted a small, light, thin-skinned Mech? What advantages do we have? Speed? Ever tried to hold laser lock while racing around at 130+?? Atlases have Streaks to COUNTER light mechs, what's the problem with the lights having them?
Try a poll for larger mechpilots who successfully downed a Light with a ballistic shot; not only will you find them VERY satisfied with themselves, but numerous.

I don't see a poll for light pilots complaining about Centurions with 90KPH speeds and multiple missile points...
Give us SOME breaks!

-ignatz22
Dies often in small, Light mechs.
Likes cats.

[Cest7]

Streaks should lock when ecm is switched to counter, not when it is on disrupt.

[ackstorm]

How about ECM affecting the mech running it the same way it affects those targeting at it.
ie: unable to lock mechs under a 180M or so, just as they cannot lock you.

That means turning ECM to counter mode (or off, if such existed) in order to use streaks up close. That would mean giving up the protection of ECM in order to use streaks.

[Skyfaller]

Tarvitz, on 27 March 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

This seems like an unfair combination when it comes to light mechs. At the moment a fair number of light classes are now capable of taking ECM. It effectively removes light mechs' biggest weakness, target locks from missiles both at close ranges. This might not be so much of a problem were it not for the fact the game does nothing to hinder a light mech from using the very weapons they are now immune to.

This seems like a very unfair advantage. Along with being able to stay completely out of sight of any large mech and block the weapons which can most effectively hit them, they can constantly destroy their front armour from any position. This makes the task of taking out anything from a medium to an assault extremely easy.
If you're going to give them ECM you could at least stop them from using the very weapons now useless against them.

The problem is with the SSRM locking mechanic. It retains a lock even when you move the aimpoint off the lock-icon.

This literally enables the ECM mech to lock and turn around a target at point blank range with the aimpoint drifting in and out of the lockbox every 4 seconds (meaning the aimpoint is only in the lock-box for a split second and then outside of it for 4 seconds). Which in turn means the mech can fire the SSRM at over 90 degree angle from the max left/right slew position of the torso.

Translation: Commando/Raven firing SSRM 90 degrees from their max torso twist position. When they are full twisted to a side they literally can fire backwards for 2 to 3 seconds before their lock breaks (aimpoint not in lockbox).

The solution is absurdly easy: Make the SSRM lock be broken the INSTANT the aimpoint leaves the lock-box.

That solves the problem of the SSRM being impossible to beat in knife fights of lights vs lights. ECM is not an issue for SSRM in this context.

[focuspark]

I've been advocating this solution:

SSRM should drop the lock on mechanic. Instead, when the trigger is pulled SSRM should emit a 270m long targeting beam for up to 2.0 seconds. If the beam can be kept on target for 0.5 seconds continually, or 1.0 seconds cumulatively the missiles fire and work as they do now. If not, the missiles do not fire, ammo is not consumed, heat is not wasted.

It's a simple, easy to understand model. Launchers is separate body locations would lock on independently and rely on convergence like nearly every other weapon system, giving reasons to place SSRM in arms. Pilots could not lock on before being in range or preserve their lock on between launches. Finally, because SSRM would behave like lasers when attempting to lock on, they would require skill and missiles would launch directly at the target and not require fancy trajectory manipulation to make them strike their targets,

[Voivode]

Swiffllama, on 28 March 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

Wow, some of these posts are out there! SSRM's do a whopping 4 damage. You are talking about a weapon that does less damage than a medium laser. Yes, they lock on and track. That's what SSRM's are supposed to do. Once they lock they don't miss (TT that is). Taking away staying locked won't matter one lick. And for those that think SSRM hit every single time you are absolutely wrong. My hit % for streaks is just a touch over 80%. My hit % for medium lasers..... 94%!!!!! And the combo of ECM and SSRM is just a part of the game. Just fix ECM!!! I am really beginning to think that everyone that gets on here to cry for a nerf is just a horrible pilot boohooing because someone killed them. It's really getting to a sad point. Almost all of my kills in my 3L are laser kills. SSRM's do exactly what they are supposed to do and soften the opponent up. Want to see how "Overpowered" they are. Take a mech with 2SSRM's into the training grounds, find a medium size mech and stand in front of it and shoot. Let me know if you kill it before you run out of ammo.

The problem is the combination of SSRM as it is and ECM as it is allows the Raven 3L to be entirely too dominant. When it comes to light on light fighting there shouldn't be just one variant of one chassis that controls the field. Not having to aim is a tremendous advantage at 150kph, and due to ECM no variant that isn't carrying ECM can use the same nonaiming weapon against you. Add in the fact that the Raven 3L can move as fast as the Commando 2D and sports way more armor and there is no competition. If the Raven 3L is the only light worth piloting, why did they bother making the rest of them?

Edited by Voivode, 01 April 2013 - 10:49 AM.