7 replies to this topic

[Cart]

I hope, that this wasn't already posted anywhere...but if so, I couldn't find it.
So, at first let me say, that I too think, that it's impossible to use zellbrigen for balance. Sure, some real Clanners would follow it but not much. And the Players who aren't know to the lore would surely not.
But on the other side it seems to me, that the Clan-Mechs will be a lot more expensive. And trying to balance them by changing the weapons is a dangerous thing...I'd say the next shitstorm is imminent.
So my balance-idea is based on a combination of balance by numbers anD XP/C-Bill bonus/malus.
Let me explain it:
First of all the base-config for a match should be an IS-Company vs an Clan-binary-star. Still not even, I know. But because of that, the Clan-side should get a XP/C-Bill malus because they are superior.
The second step is: Using the Pre-Match-Screen for a batchall. The Clan-Players can bid away some of their Mechs. According to that, they get a smaller malus on XP/C-Bill or even a bonus if they win with a smaller force. If they are close to defeat, they can reactivate Mechs that were bid away, but by doing this, they will get back to the malus at the beginning.
On the other side, the IS-Players will get a bonus on XP/C-Bills depending on how big the Clan-Force is.
That idea is based on the fact, that in the current point (and near future) of the timeline, it shouldn't be possible that Clan-Mechs fight FOR the IS. So no mixed Teams...Clan vs IS...
So, for those who are known to the lore, the batchall should be self-explaining and it could give them a nice amount of extra XP/C-Bills per match. For those who are not, the option of a XP/C-Bill BONUS SHOULD GIVE THEM A REASON TO USE IT. (SORRY, MY "SHIFT" IS SOMEHOW TRIPPED, NOT MEANT AS SHOUTING)
MAYBE THERE SHOULD BE AN OPTION FOR THE PLAYERS WHO WERE BID AWAY TO DISCONNECT AND GET THEIR MECHS BACK...SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO WAIT...
SO, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?

Edited by Cart, 16 December 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[Mcchuggernaut]

I actually love the idea of challenges laid down batchall style. That would add some flavor. it's kid of not what you were getting at, but putting up mechs or c-bills in a challenge sounds cool.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Zellbrigen could be encouraged via reward structures, but enforcement would be nearly impossible.

If I were going to try to set it up, I'd first bifurcate each account into one IS pilot and one Clan pilot. The IS pilot would function as now, with c-bills and such. The Clan pilot would earn Honor or something like it in place of c-bills.

In a match, Honor would replace c-bills in the reward structure. However, it'd have some quirks to accrual that would provide incentives for following Zellbrigen.

1 - Add the ability to claim a target. A claimed target has a marker over its radar box visible to all team mates. Anyone besides the pilot who claimed the target who does damage to it loses Honor proportionate to the damage dealt. Killing someone marked by another would have huge repurcussions.

2 - In the lobby, add a bidding system. The company commander (binary or trinary commander depending) would be able to lower the team's max drop weight or limit the potential pilot slots, with each step of decrease applying some kind of multiplier to the total Honor gains of all team members. This could be left to a vote system as well, though I'd think that it'd be hard to bid away pilot slots once a full team is in the lobby.

3 - Honor increases in a similar fashion to salvage, where efficient kills (head shots and such) get you more rewards than inefficient or cruel kills (one leg, both arms, both side torsos, and a kill location). This would reflect the Clans' disdain for wasting resources, even inferior IS battlemech technology.

[MustrumRidcully]

Zellbrigen does only apply when both sides follow the rules.

Quote

The proscriptions of zellbrigen consist of the following rules:

• Each warrior will issue a challenge to a different enemy. If one side outnumbers the other, then the extra warriors on that side will stand aside until one of their comrades falls in battle. A warrior can challenge more than one unit at a time.^[4] Typically the challenge will be made verbally, for example: "I am MechWarrior Franklin of Clan Smoke Jaguar, piloting the lone Warhawk in Beta Star. I hereby invoke the ritual of zellbrigen and challenge the pilot of the Atlas adorned with the unit designation seven to a duel of warriors. In this solemn matter, let no one interfere!"^[5]
  
• A warrior has right to refuse challenges from Inner Sphere units, especially if underhanded ploys are suspected.^[4]
  
• A warrior has the right to refuse a challenge from an unit of differing weight class if other unengaged units are available.^[4]
  
• No artillery or other Area-Effect Weapons shall be employed by either side.^[4]
  
• Intentionally moving out of the line of sight of the opponent is prohibited.^[4]
  
• Systems that requires multiple units to operate, like C3 and TAG, are forbidden.^[4]
  
• Moving out of weapon range is prohibited.^[4]
  
• Failure to fire a weapon when possible is prohibited.^[4]

A warrior is also expected to not retreat from inferior foes, or to engage his opponent in melee combat, though these are not part of the formal rules of zellbrigen.^[4] Also, though it plays a central role in Clans' combat challenges, the ritual of batchall remains a separate tradition. If the rules of zellbrigen are broken the fight will then degenerate into a melee, a free-for-all battle with no restrictions. Such an outcome though is considered a major breach of honor, usually punished by a loss of rank.^[5][6]

Adhering to these rules would be pretty impractical, but the bolded ones are pretty important. Batchall is not Zellbrigen. And IS challenges can be refused.

[Cart]

I FEEL SOMEHOW MISUNDERSTOOD...
I DON'T MEANT THE IS TO DO A BATCHAL AT ALL! THEY DROP WITH 12 MECHS (WITH ALL THEY HAVE). ONLY THE CLANS DO A BATCHALL. EITHER THEY BID LOW ENOUGH, TO EVEN THE CHANCES, AND BY THAT GET RID OF THEIR XP/C-BILL MALUS (OR EVEN GET A BONUS FOR TRYING TO WIN WITH VERY LITTLE FORCES). OR THEY BID HIGH OR DO NO BATCHALL AT ALL AND WIN EASILY, BUT WITH A BIG XP/C-BILL MALUS.
THE IS WILL JUST FIGHT WITH ALL THEY HAVE AGAINST WHATEVER THE CLANS CHOSE TO BID...LIKE IT WAS AT THE BEGINNING OF THE INVASION. IF THE CLANNERS BID VERY LOW, THE IS GETS NORMAL XP/C-BILL (NO BONUS). IF THE CLANNERS BID VERY HIGH (OR DON'T DO A BATCHALL AT ALL AND DROP WITH 2 FULL STARS), THE IS WILL GET A XP/C-BILL BONUS DEPENDING ON HOW SUPERIOR THE CLANFORCES ARE ( JUDGED BY TONS/ELO OR BV).

[Slepnir]

There is already balance, I have played the TT game for over 25 years, just use the balance that already exhists in the game. there is no need to mess with weapons the simple solution is 2:1 odd. the IS should always have 2 lances for every clan star they face. zellbrigan was abandoned shortly after the invasion began because the clans realized the IS would not follow the rules. so in short-if your playing as a clanner bring your A game and expect to be outnumbered.

[Cart]

Slepnir, on 16 December 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

There is already balance, I have played the TT game for over 25 years, just use the balance that already exhists in the game. there is no need to mess with weapons

That's what I want...leave the Clan-Weapons powerful as they are...

Slepnir, on 16 December 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

the simple solution is 2:1 odd. the IS should always have 2 lances for every clan star they face. zellbrigan was abandoned shortly after the invasion began because the clans realized the IS would not follow the rules. so in short-if your playing as a clanner bring your A game and expect to be outnumbered.

Yes, that's the direction my idea is aiming for!
But if it were fixed (maybe 2 Stars against 4 Lances), the Shitstorm would follow directly from all the "wannabe"-Clanners, because they are sooo outnumbered.
With my idea it were flexible enough, that at one hand the true Clanners can bid low and get a tough, challenging fight and the fitting reward for it.
And on the other hand the "wannabe"-Clanners can drop with 2 full Stars, grab an easy win, but with a very low reward(and honor).

Edited by Cart, 16 December 2013 - 05:46 AM.

[Cart]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 16 December 2013 - 12:28 AM, said:

If I were going to try to set it up, I'd first bifurcate each account into one IS pilot and one Clan pilot. The IS pilot would function as now, with c-bills and such. The Clan pilot would earn Honor or something like it in place of c-bills.

Also an good Idea, by the way...