67 replies to this topic

[topgun505]

In the TT the LBX series of autocannons could use multiple ammo types. Solid slugs and cluster. Typically you would use the slugs to punch holes in the target armor then switch to cluster to try and cripple those exposed areas.

It would be interesting if we could mount both types on a mech in MWO. Make a hot key option that allows you to switch ammo types for all loaded LBX weapons (maybe make the switch take like 3-5 seconds).

Thoughts?

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

It has been asked for and ignored.

They tried to make the cluster rounds "crit seekers" but that failed to deliver.
As of right now the LB-10X is among the worst weapons in the game, it is ironically very similar to the AC/5 in that if you spend another ton and crit you will get its useful cousin, in this case the AC/10.

Edited by CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, 28 March 2013 - 08:38 AM.

[Ryokens leap]

Never head of this before, great idea! You should post this in suggestions thread, maybe the Devs will take notice.

[Khobai]

The LB10X should be able to freely switch between cluster and slug ammo. However, in the interest of keeping the AC/10 viable, the LB10X should fire slugs at a 4.0 cooldown instead of a 2.5 cooldown.

Cluster rounds should also fire in a cylinder pattern instead of a cone pattern so their accuracy doesn't drop off as rapidly with range

I think those two changes would make the LB10X more appealing without making the AC/10 useless.

Edited by Khobai, 28 March 2013 - 08:48 AM.

[Null Signature]

They have an opportunity to make a really interesting weapon here.

Birdshot: 20 pellets that do 10X damage each with a wide spread (for the equivalent of 11-13 total damage)
Buckshot: 10 pellets that do 10Y damage each with a more narrow spread (for the equivalent of 13-15 total damage)
Slugs: 10 damage

You could use s hots/ton as a balancing factor, where the LBX will always have ~25% less shots than the equivalent AC.
As someone else mentioned, the gun could also fire slower than its AC counterpart.

Edited by Null Signature, 28 March 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[Jazzbandit1313]

i think the LB should have 4 modes...this may sound like a lot but hear me out

slug

cluster shot

No imagine dead space...the plasma cutter has a verticle line mode and a horizontal line mode....those two would be perfect to see

[Fuzzbox]

I might be off here, but the LB10X AC has a range of:
540 meter (max 1620) at 11 tons for 2 heat
AC 10 has a range of:
450 meters (max 1350) at 12 tons for 3 heat

So for one ton less you will get a weapon with the same damage at a greater range for less heat making the AC10 deprecated.

Having different ammo types does not negate this as they have the same amount of shots per ton.

If the cooldown would be different it would make it possible, especially if you would have to carry slug and cluster ammo separatly. (My memory might be wrong, but I dont think TT or other games differentiated the ammo, so there it was always overpowered, but cost twice and also had a different battle value.

Cost is of no concern in MWO atm and BV are not in the game, so allowing slugs will probably take a while before implemented.

[Royalewithcheese]

Incidentally, LBX+slugs would add *exactly* what the ballistic weapon class is missing right now, which is something smaller* than an AC/20 that is worth putting on a robot.

*For UAC/5, those are mostly good in groups, so they don't count

[topgun505]

In TT you did have to load those ammo types separately in one ton increments.

Ingrid, on 28 March 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

I might be off here, but the LB10X AC has a range of:
540 meter (max 1620) at 11 tons for 2 heat
AC 10 has a range of:
450 meters (max 1350) at 12 tons for 3 heat

So for one ton less you will get a weapon with the same damage at a greater range for less heat making the AC10 deprecated.

Having different ammo types does not negate this as they have the same amount of shots per ton.

If the cooldown would be different it would make it possible, especially if you would have to carry slug and cluster ammo separatly. (My memory might be wrong, but I dont think TT or other games differentiated the ammo, so there it was always overpowered, but cost twice and also had a different battle value.

Cost is of no concern in MWO atm and BV are not in the game, so allowing slugs will probably take a while before implemented.

[Smokeyjedi]

Or The LBX could shoot a solid slug and that fragments and splashes crit damages for max armour stripping and making a hole. like a flak cannon.

[Lord Psycho]

well as I'm concerned the closer you are when firing the current LB10X the more pinpointed the damage...if I shoot you enough to make your opponent red ..the farther you are ( cause they are running like hell) the more the spread will try and go after your internals. assuming you are getting ahrd to pinpoitn hit after a good range..like them pesky lights...

Smokeyjedi, on 28 March 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Or The LBX could shoot a solid slug and that fragments and splashes crit damages for max armour stripping and making a hole. like a flak cannon.

we don't want any more spalsh damage issues like the LRMs

although that'd be a great ammo type to implement

Edited by Lord Psycho, 28 March 2013 - 10:22 AM.

[Maliconus]

Asked for before and ignored. Too busy implementing 3rd person.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ingrid, on 28 March 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

I might be off here, but the LB10X AC has a range of:
540 meter (max 1620) at 11 tons for 2 heat
AC 10 has a range of:
450 meters (max 1350) at 12 tons for 3 heat

So for one ton less you will get a weapon with the same damage at a greater range for less heat making the AC10 deprecated.

Having different ammo types does not negate this as they have the same amount of shots per ton.

If the cooldown would be different it would make it possible, especially if you would have to carry slug and cluster ammo separatly. (My memory might be wrong, but I dont think TT or other games differentiated the ammo, so there it was always overpowered, but cost twice and also had a different battle value.

Cost is of no concern in MWO atm and BV are not in the game, so allowing slugs will probably take a while before implemented.

On TT the Player had to identify whether Slugs or Cluster were equipped in the record sheet.

For a long time LB_X and Ultra's had replaced standard ACs then the alternate ammo was added and only usable in standard ACs. Precision and one other really had potential. It would make streaks look like a baby's chew toy! when once you had target lock you could fire your AC and hit the Mech with with the barrel aimed elsewhere!

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

Ingrid, on 28 March 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

I might be off here, but the LB10X AC has a range of:
540 meter (max 1620) at 11 tons for 2 heat
AC 10 has a range of:
450 meters (max 1350) at 12 tons for 3 heat

Technically correct.
The LBX autocannon is made from Endosteel and has an advanced fire control system. This reduces weight, dissipates heat better and gives it better range.

Quote

So for one ton less you will get a weapon with the same damage at a greater range for less heat making the AC10 deprecated.

Unfortunately with only cluster rounds you get a weapon with a drastically reduced range and damage that is dispersed all over the target, which is a "best case scenario" for the target mech.

Even at the close range of 180 meters it takes 60 (4 tons) rounds of LB10X rounds to kill an Atlas.
And contrary to reports otherwise, the AC/10 rounds are more likely to destroy internal components.

The LB10X literally fails at everything, it would be nice to have a high-tech large bore AC to meet the Clans but that isn't likely.

[Tennex]

could someone enlighten me

it seems like the LBX10 is better than the AC/10 in every way.

it does the same damage, it has 1 less heat it weighs 1 ton less, it has 1 less critical slot. it can switch bewteen weapon modes. It has greater range.


By TT rules, why would anyone bring AC/10 over LBX10. (fire rate is same in TT once per turn) does the TT LBX10 have no drawbacks?

Edited by Tennex, 28 March 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[Cyke]

It's going to be a significant chunk of code that will have to be rewritten to implement weapons with multiple modes, and only one weapon (the LB-10x) will benefit from the effort.
Thus, they'll probably get around to it, but it's not a big priority.
It'll be more fruitful if they go about this when there's a few weapons with varying modes/ammo types.. or maybe even throw in different missile ammo types at the same time, like Thunder LRMs or something, that'll use the same code for multiple modes.

If they did add it, a few people have pointed out that it'd be better in every way than the standard AC10. Unless matchmaking checked C-Bill cost of 'Mechs alongside ELO, or future modes are added where there were group drops that were limited by total tonnage and C-Bill cost/BV of the team's 'Mechs, there'd be no reason to use the AC10 at all.
Short of that, the AC10 would need some other advantage, like a slightly better fire rate or more ammo per ton.

Edited by Cyke, 28 March 2013 - 11:49 AM.

[Tennex]

Cyke, on 28 March 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

It's going to be a significant chunk of code that will have to be rewritten to implement weapons with multiple modes, and only one weapon (the LB-10x) will benefit from the effort.
Thus, they'll probably get around to it, but it's not a big priority.
It'll be more fruitful if they go about this when there's a few weapons with varying modes/ammo types.. or maybe even throw in different missile ammo types at the same time, like Thunder LRMs or something, that'll use the same code for multiple modes.

If they did add it, a few people have pointed out that it'd be better in every way than the standard AC10. Unless matchmaking checked C-Bill cost of 'Mechs alongside ELO, there'd be no reason to use the AC10 at all.
Short of that, the AC10 would need some other advantage, like a slightly better fire rate or more ammo per ton.

The UAC will also benefit. Switching between rapid fire with chance to jam. (firing during cooldown). or striclty cooldown firing.

Edited by Tennex, 28 March 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[Maliconus]

Tennex, on 28 March 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

could someone enlighten me

it seems like the LBX10 is better than the AC/10 in every way.

it does the same damage, it has 1 less heat it weighs 1 ton less, it has 1 less critical slot. it can switch bewteen weapon modes. It has greater range.


By TT rules, why would anyone bring AC/10 over LBX10. (fire rate is same in TT once per turn) does the TT LBX10 have no drawbacks?

AC10 all damage 1 location. LBX10 damage spread all over.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

By canon...
The LB-10X was designed to replace the normal AC/10 the first of a line of improved autocannons.
In tabletop there is no reason to bring the AC/10 again. By 3058 no new mechs even have them except for the Bushwacker which has it on the base model for storyline reasons and has it replaced by the LB-10X on newer variants.
The clans have totally scrapped the old AC lines in favor of Ultra or LB autocannons.

[FupDup]

Maliconus, on 28 March 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

AC10 all damage 1 location. LBX10 damage spread all over.

Don't LBX10 solid slugs all hit 1 location? When those come out, nobody is going to load cluster shots for LBX, period. It'll be slugs or nothing.