163 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

Wouldn't that be nice?

But do you think we can really erode PGIs willpower on this topic?

[Leafia Barrett]

As a light pilot that mains the Spider 5D, not having read most of the topic and not having any knowledge of BT canon, yes to the topic title.

MustrumRidcully, on 18 July 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

Wouldn't that be nice?

But do you think we can really erode PGIs willpower on this topic?

Would you rather we sat back and twiddled our thumbs?

[CancR]

The community has it's sights set on ECM, something worth nerfing. Let's not relent till we get freedom from **** game design.

[FupDup]

While I would definitely like ECM to stop being an idiotic hard counter, we should also remember to nerf ECM's counters along with it to ensure that the device actually stays useful. For instance, we can remove BAP's hard counter effect, PPC's don't need the EMP effect because they're a powerful enough weapon without it, and Seismic is just plain ridunkulous.

[Odins Fist]

CancR, on 17 July 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Shh now, the grow ups are talking.

Yes they are, and I got my point across

A poster put up examples backing up the statement that they are not adhering to BT (strictly), and finally culminating in him or her saying that MWO's ECM is the "POLAR OPPOSITE" of BattleTech's ECM, and isn't similar, but wait, what does that mean in terms of MWO being affect by not adhering to BT/TT.

Unbound Inferno, on 17 July 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

The AC line follows BT numbers as best I know. <----- barely
LRM heat - which is about it there. <-------about
SRMs (mostly) <-------mostly
Odds and ends for Lasers did, until they messed with them again <-------
PPC used to, changed it and now its so OP its lost its humor. <--------

Now, when I said MWO isn't sticking strictly to BT/TT, originally I needed someone to back that up since somebody squeaked that MWO not sticking to BT/TT is not part of the problem with ECM.

Unbound Inferno, on 17 July 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

ECM is not mostly. ECM is only similar in the fact its everything at once for nearly free.

In other words (since you may need a translator for this) It is nothing like it should be.

That is not similar. its closer to polar opposite.

There's part of it... Here's some more at the end of that reply..

Unbound Inferno, on 17 July 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

No. They got off the beaten Battletech path and landed in this mess. THAT is why we say go back to the basics, so they can get something right.

So I completely agree that MWO's ECM is not BT/TT, and not what it should be, but only after the example of it "NOT" sticking to BT/TT, and that was agreed upon as well by someone else's statement.. This was not illustrated by me, but another poster, so again I say "since when has MWO stuck to BT/TT", and also how much is affecting MWO..??

It is affecting MWO and making people rage about ECM, then someone saying that MWO not sticking to BT/TT isn't even part of the issue with ECM.. Hmmmm..

CancR, on 17 July 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

When has any one been right when they use that stupid argument? Anyone? anyone?

When..??? Well it looks like, right now..

Edited by Odins Fist, 18 July 2013 - 10:01 AM.

[Odins Fist]

CancR, on 18 July 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

The community has it's sights set on ECM, something worth nerfing. Let's not relent till we get freedom from **** game design.

CORRECTION: "PART" of the community has it's sights set on ECM.

Not all, you don't represent everyone, and for those of us who aren't affected "INGAME" by the current implementation of ECM, the level of priority of so called "fixing" ECM is low.

Cherry Picking the issues with MWO to complain about, and just learning to live with the others, or accepting them is a double standard. Realizing that MWO is not BT/TT, and that some things in MWO aren't going to be the way you want is something you're going to have to live with. Look at it's track record.

You want a fix for ECM, here's your fix, it's now called "Angel ECM".. But wait that can't be in 3050 right..?? You are going to say something about that right..??

Well, too bad, they have basically scrapped the Timeline since development couldn't keep up with it, and have officially called it "FLUFF" and that it wouldn't be the dictating force in the develpoment or implementation of MWO.

Now are you going to get mad about that as well when they rename ECM to "Angel ECM", and "STILL" say that MWO can't do that because it's not sticking to BT/TT.?? What other excuse would you have.?? At that point you could only say it's OP, you already stated that MWO not sticking to BT isn't the issue with ECM, any bets on that being how ECM is approached in the near future..?? Maybe maybe not, we'll see huh.

CancR, on 17 July 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

When has any one been right when they use that stupid argument? Anyone? anyone?

When indeed... Oh, I meant right now,..... again.

[General Taskeen]

Odins Fist, on 18 July 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Not all, you don't represent everyone, and for those of us who aren't affected "INGAME" by the current implementation of ECM, the level of priority of so called "fixing" ECM is low.

Another special snowflake? ECM affects everyone and the poor balance of MWO. As was predicted way back in December. There are those that see common sense and truth, and those that pull the wool over their eyes.

If you'd like to talk about Angel ECM, the ECM we have now still wouldn't be like it, it would be a super fantasy version. Angel ECM prevents Streak accuracy, but does not prevent a streak from firing (they can dumb fire).

MWO is not "BT/TT" is a lame, cookiee cutter argument. Where did your Atlas come from? Huh? Why does an AC/20 weigh 14 tons, eh? I just defeated the "is not BT/TT" just like that. Boom.

ECM as it is currently designed completely invalidates classic designs where a simple build with lasers and LRMs had no wasted tonnage, since the LRM could fire regardless at an ECM equipped unit. As has been the case in every Mech Warrior game ever, because they realized hard counter balance is illogical, a waste of time, and ruins the Spirit of Battle Tech.



I have a grand idea, that is edgy and cool and so awesome. I'd like a piece of equipment for my Mech Warrior Online that prevents my ballistic weapon from firing. It'll be great for balance. And you will have to equip other things to turn off the piece of equipment that prevents your ballistic weapon from firing. It'll be so cool yo.

Edited by General Taskeen, 18 July 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[jakucha]

I'd prefer it if ECM was separate modules. Not because of lore; Mechwarrior games deviate from lore all the time, just because it would be more interesting to me. It's up to them though, if they don't want to change it, it ain't gonna' happen. Balance-wise, I don't think it's currently as big an issue as people claim at any rate.

Edited by jakucha, 18 July 2013 - 10:08 AM.

[Odins Fist]

General Taskeen, on 18 July 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Another special snowflake? ECM affects everyone and the poor balance of MWO. As was predicted way back in December. There are those that see common sense and truth, and those that pull the wool over their eyes.

If you'd like to talk about Angel ECM, the ECM we have now still wouldn't be like it, it would be a super fantasy version. Angel ECM prevents Streak accuracy, but does not prevent a streak from firing (they can dumb fire).

MWO is not "BT/TT" is a lame, cookiee cutter argument. Where did your Atlas come from? Huh? Why does an AC/20 weigh 14 tons, eh? I just defeated the "is not BT/TT" just like that. Boom.

ECM as it is currently designed completely invalidates classic designs where a simple build with lasers and LRMs had no wasted tonnage, since the LRM could fire regardless at an ECM equipped unit. As has been the case in every Mech Warrior game ever, because they realized hard counter balance is illogical, a waste of time, and ruins the Spirit of Battle Tech.



I have a grand idea, that is edgy and cool and so awesome. I'd like a piece of equipment for my Mech Warrior Online that prevents my ballistic weapon from firing. It'll be great for balance. And you will have to equip other things to turn off the piece of equipment that prevents your ballistic weapon from firing. It'll be so cool yo.

Another special snowflake..??? Where are you getting that from..??

My orignal post said ----->> "Since when did MWO stick to BT/TT"
And I was responded to with...

CancR, on 17 July 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

When has any one been right when they use that stupid argument? Anyone? anyone?

Now you say...

General Taskeen, on 18 July 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

MWO is not "BT/TT" is a lame, cookiee cutter argument. Where did your Atlas come from? Huh? Why does an AC/20 weigh 14 tons, eh? I just defeated the "is not BT/TT" just like that. Boom.

ECM as it is currently designed completely invalidates classic designs where a simple build with lasers and LRMs had no wasted tonnage, since the LRM could fire regardless at an ECM equipped unit. As has been the case in every Mech Warrior game ever, because they realized hard counter balance is illogical, a waste of time, and ruins the Spirit of Battle Tech.

Wait a minute, is it a cookie cutter statement, or is it important that ---> "ECM as it is currently designed completely invalidates classic designs" (your words)... Which is it now, MWO not sticking to BT/TT is not important, or it is..??

Boom, you didn't defeat anything, and as a matter of fact with the ol' " "ECM as it is currently designed completely invalidates classic designs" you helped prove my point..!!!

I never said MWO wasn't based on Battletech, I know it's "BASED" on Battletech, the issue is how much it's (MWO) going to deviate in game mechanics and content, and whether or not that is part of the issue, I think reading comprehension maybe something you should invest some time in..

Also where do you get this from..???

General Taskeen, on 18 July 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

I have a grand idea, that is edgy and cool and so awesome. I'd like a piece of equipment for my Mech Warrior Online that prevents my ballistic weapon from firing. It'll be great for balance. And you will have to equip other things to turn off the piece of equipment that prevents your ballistic weapon from firing. It'll be so cool yo.

I have never asked for "ANYTHING" like that, not once...

Back up Snowflake...

How about this statement...

Odins Fist, on 18 July 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Realizing that MWO is not BT/TT, and that some things in MWO aren't going to be the way you want is something you're going to have to live with. Look at it's track record.

Hmmmmm.... The fact that MWO doesn't follow strictly Battletech is why you have ECM in it's current implementation, that was my point to begin with. (facepalm). Also, the fact that you are going to have to deal with it was also something I brought up.

Thanks snowflake, you helped more than you know..!!

I never complained about ECM, it never bothered me one bit from the beginning, and I care less how it's implemented in relation to BattleTech mechanics, i'm saying the reason it's broke (in some people's opinion) is that it is another one of those issues caused by not sticking strictly to BattleTech.

Gonna have to label the current ECM something other than just plain ol' ECM to keep the ECM haters happy aren't we.??

Weird huh..?? But that has nothing to do the MWO not sticking strictly to BattleTech does it..??

EDIT: I do not care if MWO sticks to Batteltech strictly or not, some people just need to see that it doesn't, isn't going to, and they need to stop with the double standards of accepting this, but raging against that.

Edited by Odins Fist, 18 July 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[CancR]

General Taskeen, on 18 July 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Another special snowflake? ECM affects everyone and the poor balance of MWO. As was predicted way back in December. There are those that see common sense and truth, and those that pull the wool over their eyes.

If you'd like to talk about Angel ECM, the ECM we have now still wouldn't be like it, it would be a super fantasy version. Angel ECM prevents Streak accuracy, but does not prevent a streak from firing (they can dumb fire).

MWO is not "BT/TT" is a lame, cookiee cutter argument. Where did your Atlas come from? Huh? Why does an AC/20 weigh 14 tons, eh? I just defeated the "is not BT/TT" just like that. Boom.

But bless him for living with debilitating downs syndrome.

As much as I loved MW 2 and 4, they where both really shooters more then Mech sim games. The more you make MW like BT, the more it would be a slower paced Mech sim game, which would be a refreshing change of base for the series. Sadly MWO went so far right they rolled right into Mechassault territory and proudly planted their flag.

[Odins Fist]

Hmmmmm.... The fact that MWO doesn't follow strictly Battletech is why you have ECM in it's current implementation, that was my point to begin with. (facepalm). Also, the fact that you are going to have to deal with it was also something I brought up.

Thanks snowflake, you helped more than you know..!!

I never complained about ECM, it never bothered me one bit from the beginning, and I care less how it's implemented in relation to BattleTech mechanics, i'm saying the reason it's broke (in some people's opinion) is that it is another one of those issues caused by not sticking strictly to BattleTech.

Gonna have to label the current ECM something other than just plain ol' ECM to keep the ECM haters happy aren't we.??

Weird huh..?? But that has nothing to do the MWO not sticking strictly to BattleTech does it..??

I do not care if MWO sticks to Batteltech strictly or not, some people just need to see that it doesn't, isn't going to, and they need to stop with the double standards of accepting this ot that, but raging against this or that.

Unable to "Refute" so attack is quite common on the internet.

[General Taskeen]

Odins Fist, on 18 July 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

snowflakes

I understood perfectly what you said. MWO is almost directly based off of BT/TT, hence why every Mech, but made up Hero Mechs, you can currently have today for C-Bills or MC is directly based on a Record Sheet. IF it wasn't, then we'd have made up designs. You can't put a record sheet Mech in the game, and expect a player base to think it is "fun" to have your weapons turn off as wasted tonnage. But no, PGI thinks its ok to do this, and they say, well if you don't want wasted tonnage, equip our wonderous line of hard counters.

It's completely illogical and the most whack balance measure I have ever seen in a Mech Warrior game. Literally no Mech game I have played has hard counters like this, MW3, MW4, and MW:LL. All of those games are also based directly off Battle Tech for their Mechs, their weapons, equipment, etc. Every knows this deep in their Mech Warrior souls.

Now on to the next piece of equipment. It'll be called Ballistic Counter Measure. All direct fire weapons shall bounce off of you and be directed back at the enemy. The enemy must have a Lightsaber equipped to bounce the fire back. The counter measure only bounces once, so this is the perfect counter. This is what is needed for the game. You didn't say it, I said this. Because it fits perfectly with the game 'balance' lulz.

The think tankers of past games and present MWO have posted plenty ofidea's that would enhance ECM for Information Warfare, to return to the original design pillars of MWO and enhance it. ECM and its derivate equipment in MWO, in its current state, offers little to Information Warfare mechanics. It is a series of devices where you decide to turn on or off an entire class of weapons. It literally has devolved for that specific purpose, along with all of its hard counters.

Edited by General Taskeen, 18 July 2013 - 01:39 PM.

[KuruptU4Fun]

CancR did you pay this kid to necro this thread for you? No way he did a search and picked your thread out of all the good ones that actually have constructive feedback in them... lol

[Odins Fist]

General Taskeen, on 18 July 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

You can't put a record sheet Mech in the game,

No kidding I will quote myself "AGAIN"

Odins Fist, on 18 July 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Realizing that MWO is not BT/TT, and that some things in MWO aren't going to be the way you want is something you're going to have to live with.

I have said from the beginning of my time in MWO that MWO wouldn't be a BT/TT clone, and that people we going to have to accept differences that they don't agree with, myself included... Understand.?

I also have been asking what deviating from BT on certain issues would do to MWO, and I see you have a lightsabre example.
The issue is the degree of deviation, and what those effects are.. ECM is a prime example, proves the point I made to a "T".

Some things translate quite good from BT to MWO, others do not (whether due to PGI implementing them the way they see fit, or just unable to do so).. I have been saying that forever as well.

You see that over there..?? That's called a forest, and those things in them are called trees..

Odins Fist, on 17 July 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

The OL' ECM is OP thread rises from the grave..

Please bury this deeper.. Since when has MWO stuck to BT/TT rules very strictly..??

Anyone..?? Anyone..??

Exactly...

That's my OP here.. 12 posts later they finally "get it".

[Psikez]

Whoa people are still complaining about ECM

[MustrumRidcully]

Leafia Barrett, on 18 July 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

As a light pilot that mains the Spider 5D, not having read most of the topic and not having any knowledge of BT canon, yes to the topic title.
Would you rather we sat back and twiddled our thumbs?

The problem is that I don't anything we can do. We can at best get them to look at the stuff we scream is imbalanced, but their solutions will not look anyway we like them, if they even consider what we scream at a problem. It feels kinda pointless to give substantial feedback.

[Captain Stiffy]

ECM is not even worth mentioning while advanced seismic sensor exists. I love it, but honestly....

[Umbra8]

The problem with ECM is the problem with seismic, bad game design. While I love BT cannon it isn't necessarily the holy grail of game design in regards to a dynamic real time environment. That said, they did have 30 years of balancing for table top and at least understood hard counters were not the way to go. ECM shuts down missiles (TAG not withstanding), seismic shuts down the entire concept of positioning for surprise attacks and doesn't appear to have a counter. Game elements that fundamentally reduce options instead of adding them are poor game design and even if you aren't a lore adherent, you can at least see ECM and seismic should be adjusted to enrich play and create opportunities instead of degrading play and reducing options.

This video does a good job of covering what's wrong with these systems: http://www.penny-arc...de/counter-play

ECM now has some counter play (it was a long time coming) and I'm not even sure how you could add counterplay for seismic without changing the base module.

[Karazyr]

Who is we? teh ubah proz playerz? what would you do about the raven if ecm weighed 4.5 tonns honestly its fine as is now, since we are not conforming to the TT rules (thank ******* god)

[CancR]

Certainly not the raining king of down syndrome as that are all in the nay category. I guess that just leaves the small minority of players with 100+ IQ and possess skill.