19 replies to this topic

[Alex Corkum]

My favorite build is a Spider 5D. I am often the only light on my team and therefore the designated scout/ spotter. Here is the problem/ annoyance that I have come across and the reason for this post:
I can often see mechs but cannot target them due to ECM. The only way to alert my team is to pull up the map and approximate their grid location then type it into chat. This. Is. Clunky. A fairly simple solution, in my opinion, would be to use a system where you move your cross hairs over an enemy mech, press a button and the game figures out the grid location and types it in chat/ places a static icon on the map for the team to see. I'm not suggesting that we can target the mech when under ECM or out of range, just make it easier for me to alert my team mates.
I also acknowledge that TS would solve part of this problem, but I often play when my wife is watching tele (Idol) and chattering into my mic would not a pleasant wife make.
Anyway, I otherwise love this game, thoughts?

Edited by Alex Corkum, 28 March 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Harmin]

Alex Corkum, on 28 March 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

My favorite build is a Spider 5D. I am often the only light on my team and therefore the designated scout/ spotter. Here is the problem/ annoyance that I have come across and the reason for this post:
I can often see mechs but cannot target them due to ECM. The only way to alert my team is to pull up the map and approximate their grid location then type it into chat. This. Is. Clunky. A fairly simple solution, in my opinion, would be to use a system where you move your cross hairs over an enemy mech, press a button and the game figures out the grid location and types it in chat/ places a static icon on the map for the team to see. I'm not suggesting that we can target the mech when under ECM or out of range, just make it easier for me to alert my team mates.
I also acknowledge that TS would solve part of this problem, but I often play when my wife is watching tele (Idol) and chattering into my mic would not a pleasant wife make.
Anyway, I otherwise love this game, thoughts?

My thought is that you should get on TS3 regardless. I mean no offense... but isn't the arrangement you have with your wife very lop-sided?

You have to be exposed to the sounds of that rubbish show but she won't tolerate you talking? How do you deal with phone calls? You have to go to the yard or something?

You need to get her some head phones. And for yourself ... a microphone ... (and some balls perhaps?)

Anyway, just my thoughts.

-Armin

[xDeityx]

An alternate method to grid approximation is to call out bearing and distance, both of which are readily available to you without needing to target. It's still clunky but you can try it as a replacement until a more ergonomic solution is implemented.

So if you have a target 500m to the East of you, you can type "contact 90 500m."

You may find you like it better, maybe not, but it's something else to try. If you are in a premade it will work a lot better than if you are solo dropping though. Edit: because your team needs to be aware of where YOU are as the 'mech calling the target. It will be 90 degrees and 500m from your location, so your friends will have to do some quick math in their head. If they are south of you then they may need to look at mark 70 degrees rather than 90.

From one married gentleman to another, you should man up to your wife. Tell her to turn up the volume if it bugs her. MechWarrior is way more serious business than anything on TV.

Edited by xDeityx, 28 March 2013 - 09:23 AM.

[Mighty Mutley]

Sounds like a good idea to me Alex. It would be simple to add a hotkey and some information message to the team chat (ie little dev time)
Also, you really should get some Cbill reward too.

That is after all what light mechs are supposed to do.

[WANTED]

Haha. Love all these experts on marriage above. Guys all talk a good game online or out with the bros but we all know the real deal...lol

I have similar problem with reporting targets. It is a bit clunky with the large map interface. Wish I could zoom the mini map just a bit at times. Just guesstimate best as you can so your team at least knows where to look. I started using the compass directions when they are so far off and I don't have a target.

[WildeKarde]

How about this idea but BAP is the gear that allows it to be done. Gives it a good use for team play.

[Mighty Mutley]

yeah that's not a bad idea. Or maybe BAP could give a more accurate report.
Anyway, the basic idea is sound, lets hope someone from PGI reads the above...

[MadPanda]

I didn't really get what your problem is. You want to spam the chat with bunch of messages where some enemy mech is? This isn't a twitch shooter after all, surely you got 5 sec time to type in what you saw? That's what I do. Especially on large maps like the tourmaline desert, plenty of time to report it in the chat.

I thought this thread would have been on a different issues based on the title. There is an actual problem with identifying mechs. When you are zoomed in, you don't see who is enemy and who is allied. I've actually shot allies like this because I'm not getting any data on which team they are on. Same thing with shutdown mechs. Understantable you lose targeting data on an enemy when it shutdowns, but why lose the indicator that it's your teammate? You should always know who your teammates are.

[Buffalo Six]

My gaming group has always used verbal calls on TS combined with the keyboard "keypad" to refine the call. A call of Contact G7-7 is the upper left corner of the grid......etc.

[xDeityx]

Buffalo Six, on 28 March 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

My gaming group has always used verbal calls on TS combined with the keyboard "keypad" to refine the call. A call of Contact G7-7 is the upper left corner of the grid......etc.

That will work and it's what we used to do in MWLL combined with bearing and distance but in this case I think he's saying that it's hard enough even telling in which grid they are located much less where in the grid.

[Zultor]

I would love to see options added which promote teamwork. TS3 (voice chat) is great but not usable by all and it isn't practical in PUGs. Simply allowing a feature like the OP describes where you mark a target and the game handles communication (whatever form that is) would be great.

I don't understand why target information isn't always available to all players once one mech identifies them (manually or automatically). We have that technology now in real life why in a thousand plus years can I only see red triangles?

[Alex Corkum]

Well, for some background, I PUG. I would like to get into a serious group but I really don't have much free time. So, even were I to get TS3, the likely hood of others also using it during the match are rather low. As an aside I use 5.1 surround headphones with a build in mic., this means I am luckily spared the sounds from the TV room.
My example was an anecdote and it would appear that it inadvertently struck some sort of nerve with some of you. If you would like to talk about my marriage (or balls) feel free to send me a PM, I would more than happy to regale you with stories about married life. Otherwise, lets keep to the topic at hand.

Edited by Alex Corkum, 28 March 2013 - 10:12 AM.

[Radical FX]

Alex Corkum, on 28 March 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

I also acknowledge that TS would solve part of this problem, but I often play when my wife is watching tele (Idol) and chattering into my mic would not a pleasant wife make.
Anyway, I otherwise love this game, thoughts?

You are not alone in this. As a fellow gentlemen we use common curtsey when dealing with our ladies.

But I do agree with you OP something would be nice and helpful. Even the ability to zoom out on our mini maps so I can grab the grid location easier and not have to pull up my main map would be nice.

Yesterday on desert I ran my 3L around the enemy and reported back the position they were at and a LRM boat asked me to keep lock. So I went right up behind the enemy heavies and basically set my mech to 35 km/h and kept lock. Took a good minute or two before one of them turned around and saw me 100km behind just creeping along.

Edited by Radical FX, 28 March 2013 - 10:27 AM.

[Alex Corkum]

MadPanda, on 28 March 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

I didn't really get what your problem is. You want to spam the chat with bunch of messages where some enemy mech is? This isn't a twitch shooter after all, surely you got 5 sec time to type in what you saw? That's what I do. Especially on large maps like the tourmaline desert, plenty of time to report it in the chat.

I thought this thread would have been on a different issues based on the title. There is an actual problem with identifying mechs. When you are zoomed in, you don't see who is enemy and who is allied. I've actually shot allies like this because I'm not getting any data on which team they are on. Same thing with shutdown mechs. Understantable you lose targeting data on an enemy when it shutdowns, but why lose the indicator that it's your teammate? You should always know who your teammates are.

Jake Hendricks, on 28 March 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

How about this idea but BAP is the gear that allows it to be done. Gives it a good use for team play.

I can understand not wanted to flood the chat with spam about enemy targets, but I already use chat to call out enemy targets. I am only suggesting a way to streamline that process. Besides, I am usually busy dodging fire on all but the largest maps while also trying to type. Jake makes a good suggestion about using BAP to implement this, which would also cut down on any spam, as not everyone carries BAP.
I do find it annoying that when inside the ECM bubble friend and foe are indistinguishable, but I tend to focus fire on one or two mechs and can usually tell the difference even if I can't see their name.
Mostly off topic, but I should also mention personally that I think your ECM should have an equal effect on friend and foe allowing only the user to be able to target mechs and knocking out all other communication within 200m. Might help restrict its use.

Edited by Alex Corkum, 28 March 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[FrDrake]

Alex Corkum, on 28 March 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

Well, for some background, I PUG. I would like to get into a serious group but I really don't have much free time. So, even were I to get TS3, the likely hood of others also using it during the match are rather low. As an aside I use 5.1 surround headphones with a build in mic., this means I am luckily spared the sounds from the TV room.
My example was an anecdote and it would appear that it inadvertently struck some sort of nerve with some of you. If you would like to talk about my marriage (or balls) feel free to send me a PM, I would more than happy to regale you with stories about married life. Otherwise, lets keep to the topic at hand.

Anyone who is going to comment on how to deal with the wife....doesn't have one. Everyone who does just nodded at that part .

Edited by FrDrake, 28 March 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[xDeityx]

FrDrake, on 28 March 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

Anyone who is going to comment on how to deal with the wife....doesn't have one. Everyone who does just nodded at that part .

xDeityx, on 28 March 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

From one married gentleman to another, you should man up to your wife. Tell her to turn up the volume if it bugs her. MechWarrior is way more serious business than anything on TV.

Nah, some of us just have a different type of relationship in which we can't imagine not being able to speak because the wife is watching television.

[Alex Corkum]

xDeityx, on 28 March 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

Nah, some of us just have a different type of relationship in which we can't imagine not being able to speak because the wife is watching television.

Oh relax, If I had friends visiting and they were watching a movie I would do the same. I expect no less from her if and when I watch something. I also don't use my cell phone in while sitting at a table in a restaurant for the same reason, no one wants that kind of noise pollution.

Now, back in the long long ago, I remember a similar system in BF2 which used a radial menu system to call out what it was that you see, even if there wasn't anything there (enemy boat spotted, etc.), I know this isn't a "twitch" shooter, but I feel like lights would definitely benefit from a similar system. You could also argue that tagging a light with an AC20, or guass requires a bit of that "twitch" skill, so there is some overlap. What I don't know is if there is some precedent for this sort of thing in the canon.

[Nonsense]

Why doesn't your wife have to wear the headphones to watch her TV show? Isn't it "noise pollution" for you as well?

Anyway, your "excuse" for not using TS is unnecessary in the first place since it doesn't address the issue at hand, poor in-game communication. PUG teams need better information. ECM has done wonders for the game because it allows interesting strategies...the problem then cropped up that ECM-equipped teams have information superiority in a PUG environment, not just defense from missiles.

Pre-ECM, people just followed the red arrows and attacked stuff. Coordinating the team really wasn't necessary. Post-ECM, if you don't have intelligent players on your team, they won't have any patience, they won't know how to gather information before poking around the map, and they won't know how to use their teammates to help each other survive. Inevitably, they eventually run off alone or continue peeking out and taking damage because ECM prevents them from easy access to the enemy locations.


Non-TS teams REALLY REALLY need an easy way to call targets and pass targeting info.

[Pater Mors]

I think a good idea would be the ability to open the Battlegrid, right click on a grid ref and have it automatically copy to chat. Nothing other than the grid reference required.

Exmaple: On forest colony I spot a Mech hiding behind the ship. I open battlegrid, right click on the grid ref and it automatically posts, "Contact: H6" to chat.

If however you have BAP and there are no ECM carriers in the zone, it should also call out any contacts in that grid ref that are within your sensor distance.

Example: I have BAP and Advanced Sensor Module so my sensor range is approximately 1km. I spot an enemy hiding behind the boat in Forest, so I open the battlegrid and click the grid location. Because I have BAP, it picks up a second target within the scanning range and automatically calls out in chat, "BAP Scan: Contacts H6: Jagermech, Commando." or something similar.

Some system like this would make the role of scout much more fulfilling and easier and encourage teamwork, even in people who don't really like to chat.

Edit: The BAP scan could even detect ECM but not the mech's hiding in the bubble. Using the same example from above if an ECM carrier was in the grid ref, it could post a message saying "BAP Scan: H6: Electrontic Countermeasure detected." making BAP slightly more useful against ECM.

Edited by Pater Mors, 28 March 2013 - 02:07 PM.

[Noobzorz]

I'm not sure I'm convinced this is a problem, since I haven't experienced this myself, but I think it is fair regard "Third party tools are unnecessary for enjoying the play experience" as an axiom of gaming, and that "omg noob get TS" is almost never a valid response to criticisms of a game.