101 replies to this topic

[Noobzorz]

Teralitha, on 28 March 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

I have been preaching all along that assault mode is for the lower end the the skill curve when it comes to tactics. I havent been proven wrong yet.

I find this whole topic funny and sad at the same time.

I think you've been definitely proven wrong by the last 15 years of gaming, actually. Not to mention all the things that people have said that no one has convincingly argued against.

TDM is the scrub mode (c.f. Call of Duty TDM and Call of Duty Search and Destroy, or CS1.6 deathmatch servers with CS1.6). It has the least sophistication and the fewest dimensions since games started launching without resources on the map. I'm sorry you can't get over it, but that's how it is, and that's how it's been since you could no longer pick up the railgun in the center of Q3DM16 and annihilate people who were stupid enough to sit in corners.

Edited by Noobzorz, 29 March 2013 - 07:01 AM.

[Ngamok]

Vermaxx, on 28 March 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

I don't play to cap. I play to win, and if I have to cap to stop a landslide slaughter or massive teammate incompetence, I'm going to do it. I stopped TRYING for caps when they adjusted pay to be primarily based on damage and kills, independent of win/loss.

That being said, there is a "base..." sure, it's some stupid drilling rig/weather machine (the thing has lightning effects, wtf else is that supposed to be?!) but it is there for better or worse. Stepping on the enemy pad will do one of two things: the enemy will come to you, thereby splitting their force or turning their backs on your frontline buddies....or they will politely ignore you until the timer runs out.

All it takes is one arse to stop a cap win. I've been that guy, zig-zagging on one side of the drill/weathermachine while the enemy tried to shoot me for as long as it took for my team to get back. I've also been cut down and they cap won anyway. Point is, if I CAN make it back to defend, I probably try.

You have every right to call the capping mechanic stupid, and out of place, and ignore it entirely. You also have the right to lose when that happens.

Look at it this way - if they ever find a Repair/Rearm system that isn't massively exploitable and worthless...and a living economy in CW, capping will become much more tempting. The pay is far lower, but the lower repair fees, wasted ammo, and potentially destroyed weapons you cannot immediately re-buy due to a hammered economy, may all balance out to show you that you need to defend that square.

I agree with you here, but we aren't there so capping to me is just boring and unfun. When and If we get this, then I will be capping as well and avoiding the enemy. But I'd also prefer a base we actually have to blow up rather than red box standing.

Noobzorz, on 29 March 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

I think you've been definitely proven wrong by the last 15 years of gaming, actually. Not to mention all the things that people have said that no one has convincingly argued against.

TDM is the scrub mode (c.f. Call of Duty TDM and Call of Duty Search and Destroy, or CS1.6 deathmatch servers with CS1.6). It has the least sophistication and the fewest dimensions since games started launching without resources on the map. I'm sorry you can't get over it, but that's how it is, and that's how it's been since you could no longer pick up the railgun in the center of Q3DM16 and annihilate people who were stupid enough to sit in corners.

CS1.5+ Where one team defends an objective and one team has to take it out is actually a ton better IMO (I said IMO dammit). You know the ones, defend hostages / free them and plant bomb / defend against it.

[Rebas Kradd]

By the "defend or die" logic, nobody would ever leave their base. Didn't YOU have to leave YOUR base less defended in order to attack theirs?

That said, I'm not against capping to win. I don't take it to the Franchi misanthropic extreme and play more for the pleasure of ticking off strangers than actually enjoying MechWarrior, but hey, the bases are in there and it induces strategy and thought.

It's also a marvelous way to counter those obnoxious 3-DDC/3-3L/2-poptart premades, at least on the bigger maps. I'm actually very glad right now that the devs have left base capping available to us.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 29 March 2013 - 07:24 AM.

[Wriath]

You're pretty obviously just ******** and raging against everyone who doesn't feel the same way as you dude. Yell at the pugs to take up a defensive position, stop trying to say how you're getting screwed by premades but refusing to join one, drive a mech that can take on a few rushers instead of a spider. The sky is the limits with possible fixes to your problem, but you'd quite obviously rather whine than do a thing about it, want some cheese?

[Ph30nix]

600 xp in about 60 seconds is a big incentive for some people, personaly i rather get almost 2000 in 5 minutes for a game i do well in but hey they think their way works PUGS will figure out just to guard base then, once their time slows down they will stop

[Noobzorz]

Lukoi, on 29 March 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

Yo Capper, fellow NC'in.....

And yea, Conquest is an undervalued mode imo. I've had more "great" matches in Conq than Assault frankly, as the game mechanics change much of the tactical thought for many players.

Of course, tbf, I've had some absolutely awful games in the past where getting the team to not scatter to the winds to cap all the points at once (at least that's how it looked) was like trying to herd angry cats and led to terrible losses.

Conquest is fantastic, but honestly, I like assault, and I think the people who are complaining are badly lacking in self awareness.

[Mavairo]

Rebas Kradd, on 29 March 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

By the "defend or die" logic, nobody would ever leave their base. Didn't YOU have to leave YOUR base less defended in order to attack theirs?

That said, I'm not against capping to win. I don't take it to the Franchi misanthropic extreme and play more for the pleasure of ticking off strangers than actually enjoying MechWarrior, but hey, the bases are in there and it induces strategy and thought.

It's also a marvelous way to counter those obnoxious 3-DDC/3-3L/2-poptart premades that appeared in response to the LRM powerup and then never went away. I'm actually very glad right now that the devs have left base capping available to us.

How hard is it, to have a medium or pair of mediums or lights go back for your base, while sitting on the stupid ridge?
Or even a fast heavy? (like a Dragon)

If your team does not have those things (fast mechs) they shouldn't be ever getting so far away from their base that they can not Respond to a cap threat.

If they are, they deserve the loss.
It's also the job of your scouts to determine whether or not being aggressive is a good idea for the team or not. If they haven't run across enemy fast movers, or haven't seen the enemy while they are en route to the base it's their job to report a coming cap rush, and it is then up to the guys behind, and close to the defending sides base to Respond.

And yes you can do this with Pugs. I do it all the time. Team chat can be marvelous.

Edited by Mavairo, 29 March 2013 - 07:19 AM.

[ItsAPotato]

My regular group has adopted the philosophy of "never go back". If more than 1 mech tries to turbo cap, we ignore it and rush the enemy main force, because it means they are outnumbered. Usually we stomp them and have time to return to finish off the cappers.

However, if, in your situation, a whole premade tries to turbo cap, we'll just let it happen. We'll lose, our next match will be easier (thanks, Elo!), and we save time (and therefor make more money in the long run). Having the team run back in that situation only results in your team dying a slow, horrible death from getting pincered/swarmed. Leaving something like an assault behind to defend it also goes badly (because you are down an assault in the main fight).

So, just let it happen to save yourself some stress.

Edit: Of course, I still incur some stress trying to rationalize how these people have fun booting up a giant stompy internet robot game only to stand in a little red square the whole time. Not sure where the fun comes from there.

Edited by ItsAPotato, 29 March 2013 - 07:35 AM.

[Shiftypete]

Tagging a base in assault to split the opponents up is just smart tactics, if they don't bite and weaken their front line fighting force you either have to let them call your bluff and abandon the cap, or just let it complete and move on. Generally I dislike cap victories and am hoping for someone to head my way when I'm in my light running distraction.

[Mercules]

I've actually capped bases in a premade with capture assist. My friend was leveling up Commandos and since only one had a significant combat presence at the time we forced them to play by our game instead of theirs. Furball in the middle is fun for a while but this was actually more fun. This was back before Elo ended up making it so some teams had lights and some didn't so it wasn't that there wasn't a fast mech that could come back and stop us or scout and find us before we got there.

95% of the time we ran into no one and didn't have to go very far out of our way. Had the enemy used it's two lights to scout we wouldn't have gotten to their base. Even one light would have been able to lock onto us and warn the enemy as most of the time neither of us had ECM, I was leveling Spiders.

We often stepped off the base before it finished or forced slower mechs to chase us and then sit on their base to "protect it" while we joined our team and caught their team in a crossfire. It was a blast.

Shiftypete, on 29 March 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Tagging a base in assault to split the opponents up is just smart tactics, if they don't bite and weaken their front line fighting force you either have to let them call your bluff and abandon the cap, or just let it complete and move on. Generally I dislike cap victories and am hoping for someone to head my way when I'm in my light running distraction.

I tend to get it to a sliver and then come in behind the enemy team. That way if they do get ahead in the kills I can return, step in, and win.

[Shiftypete]

Mercules, on 29 March 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

I've actually capped bases in a premade with capture assist. My friend was leveling up Commandos and since only one had a significant combat presence at the time we forced them to play by our game instead of theirs. Furball in the middle is fun for a while but this was actually more fun. This was back before Elo ended up making it so some teams had lights and some didn't so it wasn't that there wasn't a fast mech that could come back and stop us or scout and find us before we got there.

95% of the time we ran into no one and didn't have to go very far out of our way. Had the enemy used it's two lights to scout we wouldn't have gotten to their base. Even one light would have been able to lock onto us and warn the enemy as most of the time neither of us had ECM, I was leveling Spiders.

We often stepped off the base before it finished or forced slower mechs to chase us and then sit on their base to "protect it" while we joined our team and caught their team in a crossfire. It was a blast.



I tend to get it to a sliver and then come in behind the enemy team. That way if they do get ahead in the kills I can return, step in, and win.

Likewise, unless my capping starts a cap arms race (which sadly often happens) at which point I can't afford to abandon it. Do so hate it when my cunning plan backfires like that.

[DKTuesday]

If you feel the need to defend your tactics, then you are not at peace with your tactics. If you felt there was nothing wrong with the way you played, why would you even waste your time responding.

I'm not a capper. I don't care if you cap, I'll just press launch again. I just find it funny that both sides are so insecure, especially the cappers that do it for "tears." Someone needs a hug.

Phone auto-correct errors.

Edited by DKTuesday, 29 March 2013 - 07:54 AM.

[Ransack]

Vividos, on 28 March 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

with all the people complaining about base capping lately i've been paying more attention to it than i had been in the past and i noticed something interesting today - a day that i've spent literally ALL day playing MWO (yay for losing my job!)

every single time more than 1 solo light goes for a base cap, it's done by a premade.

i've been defending assault mode when i interject my opinion into these assault vs tdm threads, because most of the time when i get the "base under attack" notification i turn around and defend the base myself (i typically play faster mechs. spent all day today eliting spiders, working on cents too, and my main mech is my cda-3m)
however, what im seeing now all of a sudden are premades that intentionally dont fight and just go for base caps. it happened maybe once or twice earlier today (no big deal. shrugged it off), but now i just hit 2 matches in a row where 2 different premades didnt fire a single shot and went straight to base.

i still prefer assault over a pure tdm mode but i'll admit that 2 matches in a row of that crap is enough to make me switch my mode select from "any" to "conquest"

i know nothing will come from this post but if someone who runs a premade that base rushes happens to open this up, do me a favor and explain to me why you prefer showcasing your complete lack of skill over using the fact that you're a premade to do things like play tactically.
do you honestly have fun booting up the game and then not playing it?
is this just a glorified mech driving sim to you and not a mech combat sim?

i myself (especially when skilling up my 5k and 5v..) have been known to run to the enemy base in an attempt to split their forces if i know my mech isnt exactly combat-capable. but using it as a distraction and then escaping to the main battle is one thing...sending an entire premade group of mechs to the base with cap modules is something else entirely.

At work and not playing, but it is Double everything weekend. Base caps are fast. More drops = more money. Well, that's why I would be doing it.

[That Dawg]

mekabuser, on 28 March 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

Being a cap killer is probably the most satisfying thing in this game atm.

It ranks up there.

[dal10]

Vividos, on 28 March 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

nice k/d but like i said to the other guy, it's hard to judge any k/d that has premades in it vs ones that are pure pug. and i only have basic efficiencies on my 3F (havnt bought any other stalkers yet zzzz) too so i know mine should be higher dangit!
i tried a similar build at one time but seemed to do better swapping all lasers to large/large pulse or going brawler with srms and mediums.
what engine you use out of curiosity? i've been using std 280/300

standard 275. i never use anything that isn't a multiple of 25 unless i just have the engine lying around. the extra kph or 2 is not worth the increased weight.

[Mercules]

DKTuesday, on 29 March 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

If you feel the need to defend your tactics, then you are not at peace with your tactics.

Explaining is not defending. I do feel a need when someone askes, "Why did you do this?" to explain to them my reasoning, that doesn't mean I am being defensive. For example, my son asked why I took a certain unit in Warhammer 40k and I explained to him my reasoning behind it. That doesn't mean I felt I had to defend my choice of that unit.

[Syllogy]

Vividos, on 28 March 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

i asked.
simple, really.
seeing them all representing the same clan was a dead giveaway at first.
the question that followed confirmed it

Do you have screenshots to confirm this?

[NKAc Street]

Lol. Actually it is good strategy for one or two fast mechs to hit the caps in either mode. But conquest is worse if your a pug. Many time players will peel off right off the bat to try to get all the cap points. Its not a problem that has to do with premades it is a dumb player problem. You do not need to be a premade to recognize and employ simple strategy.

[Rebas Kradd]

Mavairo, on 29 March 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

And yes you can do this with Pugs. I do it all the time. Team chat can be marvelous.

I'm glad that you're lucky enough to drop with so many attentive and cooperative puggers.

[Mavairo]

Rebas Kradd, on 29 March 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

I'm glad that you're lucky enough to drop with so many attentive and cooperative puggers.

If the pugs you get stuck with aren't smart enough to Respond, they are probably bad enough that you were going to lose anyway.

Look at it that way