33 replies to this topic

[Sedit]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/C3_Network


Why do we all get this on our mechs for free. Each group should need a command unit and everyone else a slave unit. We should not be sharing enemy mech info with each other.

[Davers]

Yup. That way Pugs would all be extra gimped. Another great well thought out suggestion.

[One Medic Army]

Because in TT you automatically knew where everyone on your side was and shared all that info outside the game.
Nobody played double-blind for each individual player.

C3 was for calculating range to target based on friendly mechs.

Edited by One Medic Army, 31 March 2013 - 02:14 PM.

[Targetloc]

Sharing target information is standard mech equipment.

C3 gives targeting bonuses that make weapons fire more accurate.

What we have in-game isn't C3. Wish people would stop claiming this.

[PANZERBUNNY]

I wouldn't mind C3I, letting missiles range in on YOUR range. Missiles across the map baby.

It would give LRM some boost and require some decent coordination to pull off massive salvos like that.

[Tennex]

well PGI decided to try and reinvent the wheel lol.

[Inconspicuous]

We should be able to share targets, this is not TT so the devs are going to take a few liberties (ECM we got is not the 3050 TT version).

[General Taskeen]

Davers, on 31 March 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Yup. That way Pugs would all be extra gimped. Another great well thought out suggestion.

No... they wouldn't. Devs are working on Active/Passive Radar.

There are ways to implement C3 as a simple target sharing (INFO) bonus.

[Davers]

General Taskeen, on 31 March 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

No... they wouldn't. Devs are working on Active/Passive Radar.

There are ways to implement C3 as a simple target sharing (INFO) bonus.

Sedit, on 31 March 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/C3_Network


Why do we all get this on our mechs for free. Each group should need a command unit and everyone else a slave unit. We should not be sharing enemy mech info with each other.

Way to quote me, but not respond to me. If you think loss of shared information isn't bad for pug players then you have not been playing the same game I have. OP was not talking about C3 giving any bonus. He wants teams not to be able to share info without C3. And divide C3 into master/slave. That way only premades could plan on using it successfully- Pugs would never know if they should drop with a master unit, or a slave unit. Plus not a single trial mech has them so they would be blind regardless (Atlas D-DC possibly excepted).

[Vapor Trail]

First, junk ECM as it is now.
Second junk about half the targeting system as it is now.
Third, rework targeting system so LRM and SSRM locks are seperate, and that Direct and Indirect LRM locks are seperate.
Fourth, make spotting for indirect fire a tactical choice for a mech. Basically, if you're spotting for an indirect launch, you can't fire anything but TAG.
Fifth, make C3 allow automatic spotting for indirect fire (you can now shoot while spotting for indirect fire.
Sixth, make ECM counter indirect LRM fire (Can't spot. CAN still lock on and reveal location.)
Seventh, speed LRMs up to about 150+mps.
Eighth, increase AMS effectiveness (possibly add fratricide), while increasing ammo consumption.

Problem with all that is that it's a heck of a lot of work.

[Sedit]

Davers, on 31 March 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Way to quote me, but not respond to me. If you think loss of shared information isn't bad for pug players then you have not been playing the same game I have. OP was not talking about C3 giving any bonus. He wants teams not to be able to share info without C3. And divide C3 into master/slave. That way only premades could plan on using it successfully- Pugs would never know if they should drop with a master unit, or a slave unit. Plus not a single trial mech has them so they would be blind regardless (Atlas D-DC possibly excepted).

perhaps the PUGs could find a clan or house to join then there would be no problem. this is a team game after all. PUGs should be at a major disadvantage, it gives incentive to become part of a team not a hindrance.

[Ralgas]

Sedit, on 01 April 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

perhaps the PUGs could find a clan or house to join then there would be no problem. this is a team game after all. PUGs should be at a major disadvantage, it gives incentive to become part of a team not a hindrance.

And kills off the new player experience even more, are you trying to make this game fold?

[Adridos]

Sedit, on 01 April 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

perhaps the PUGs could find a clan or house to join then there would be no problem. this is a team game after all. PUGs should be at a major disadvantage, it gives incentive to become part of a team not a hindrance.

If you include a PuG option into a game, you are responsible for making the game playable under the said option.

[Corwin Vickers]

I'd like them to completely rework LRMs as per my signature suggestion. Something skill based and semi direct fire, a hybrid between the crazy seeking missiles we have now and a rocket. http://mwomercs.com/...everyone-happy/

I'd like streaks to have some sort of skill aim and then fire or not fire based on whether you clicked in the right spot or not. Streaks are not supposed to home, they are supposed to tell you if you are going to hit and then fire or not fire based on if you were going to hit. They are supposed to save you ammo and heat. I don't think people should be able to fire them sideways and all the other crazy homing things they do.

The game could determine if when you fired your streaks they would have hit the target at the range you fired them and then make them all automatically hit. Or they could mix it with state rewind and do a retroactive sort of hit if you wanted to factor in the targets movement between when you fired and when they would hit.

Normal SRMs probably need a new mechanic too where they are still useful out to 270 but not pinpoint at point blank.

BasicallyI think all missiles need to be reworked.


Scrap ECM and make it similar to the TT function


My suggestions are more in line with the TT spirit since as people have pointed out the game probably wouldn't be as popular if it was the same pace as they board game. But here in MWO these items have strayed FAR away from the TT items function and they don't work. No one is happy with them.

[Sedit]

Ralgas, on 01 April 2013 - 04:27 AM, said:

And kills off the new player experience even more, are you trying to make this game fold?

it does not kill the new player experience, it gives them some to look forward to, why does everyone think everyone should be equal without the work. pugs or lone wolfs should be ill equipped as they do not have the backing of a house or clan. If you want better equipment and to start winning battles join a house or clan. This is not Call of Duty it is a team oriented game so join one.

Edited by Sedit, 01 April 2013 - 05:56 AM.

[EgoSlayer]

Sedit, on 01 April 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

it does not kill the new player experience, it gives them some to look forward to, why does everyone think everyone should be equal without the work. pugs or lone wolfs should be ill equipped as they do not have the backing of a house or clan. If you want better equipment and to start winning battles join a house or clan. This is not Call of Duty it is a team oriented game so join one.

As has been said in the other 1000 threads about this: We have basic IFF and enemy location sharing. Not C3. If you take this out of the game the only targeting you have is what your Mech LOS shows.

This does kill the experience, PUG or pre-made.

Drop into the Testing grounds. This is what the player experience (new/PUG/Premade) and team play would be like. Except there are 16 mechs, soon to be 24. And they move.

This is a idea beyond horrible and would kill the experience. Without basic IFF, team and enemy location data it would be a horribad game of hide and seek and manual target IDs.

[Sedit]

EgoSlayer, on 01 April 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

As has been said in the other 1000 threads about this: We have basic IFF and enemy location sharing. Not C3. If you take this out of the game the only targeting you have is what your Mech LOS shows.

This does kill the experience, PUG or pre-made.

Drop into the Testing grounds. This is what the player experience (new/PUG/Premade) and team play would be like. Except there are 16 mechs, soon to be 24. And they move.

This is a idea beyond horrible and would kill the experience. Without basic IFF, team and enemy location data it would be a horribad game of hide and seek and manual target IDs.

What is bad about that it adds a little excitement and forces you to be aware of your surroundings and making you a better pilot. You learn the basics then you can upgrade to perhaps radar and then join a house or clan and get upgraded target acquisition gear. This will help new players evolve into great players.

You want this

YOUR MECH HERE

Edited by Sedit, 01 April 2013 - 06:31 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Golden thread.

[Mad Porthos]

Sedit, on 31 March 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/C3_Network


Why do we all get this on our mechs for free. Each group should need a command unit and everyone else a slave unit. We should not be sharing enemy mech info with each other.

Technically we don't get this. C3 and C3i are systems used to share a mech's elaborate high quality targeting data with Combat Vehicles, which rarely have such elaborate multi use sensors, scanners, detectors etc built in. By Combat Vehicles, in the Battletech Universe, something very specific was meant... A class of vehicles such as tanks, srm carriers, lrm carriers, hovercraft, hovertanks, etc., BUT such vehicles are not the multi million cbill affairs that battle mechs are, hence do not have the vast array of sensors that battle mechs need for operating in the many varied and disparate environments across the inner sphere. It makes them less of a loss when destroyed,but less effective as well. Having the c3/c3i is a way of making the whole force more effective because a battle mech can share his targeting data not just with others in his lance, but with the poor scrubs in Demolisher tanks next to him.

Like how could this make sense or matter?!?!? Well, obviously this is different than table top where the original game rule functionality was first envisioned, BUT who wouldn't want the Lrm Carriers in the next valley behind you, firing on the Atlas you are currently targeting? Who wouldn't want to allow that same Lrm Carrier to be able to reliably be able to target an ECM mech BECAUSE THE BATTLEMECH FEEDING TARGETING INFO CAN SEE IT? That was C3's benefit, primarily to non battle mech units which we don't even have in MWO.

Location of friendly units was never an issue for two reasons. When playing Battletech as a table top game, you would either be team vs team or even one on one, with one player / team controlling several mechs (lance) vs another player/team. Essentially this amounted to there never being friendly fire by accidental confusion that one mech was actually an enemy mech, when it wasn't. One wouldn't need a rule about this in the TT game, basically you had perfect IFF... at least identify friend part since it was just you, or you and a few other friends around the table controlling the mechs you could see on the map. If anything was hidden it might be enemy mechs that were not visible because of being able to set up "blind" on another identical map... Or write down previous to a game certain locations where powered down mechs were waiting in ambush on the main map board to be revealed only when team members got in visual line of sight and close enough.

Translated in a computer game, we do not have C3 here. We ain't targeting enemies with NPC missile carriers or tanks, or off map resources like artillery, which IMO might have been a better implementation of c3.

Edited by Mad Porthos, 01 April 2013 - 06:41 AM.

[Allekatrase]

Sedit, on 01 April 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

it does not kill the new player experience, it gives them some to look forward to, why does everyone think everyone should be equal without the work. pugs or lone wolfs should be ill equipped as they do not have the backing of a house or clan. If you want better equipment and to start winning battles join a house or clan. This is not Call of Duty it is a team oriented game so join one.

I can't believe people still think this way.

Yes, the Battletech/Mechwarrior universe is based on unit warfare, not solo combat. However, the majority of players of this game currently and probably at every point in it's future play solo. "Progressing" to a team as if that's some increase in skill is just plain stupid. You can join the game and join a premade at the same time. Also, being in a premade team is no indication whatsoever of skill and the biggest advantage most premades have at all is that they're using some out of game voice communication system which affords them easier awareness of the situation.

All your talk about joining a house or a clan or a merc corp is also completely meaningless. CW is not in and won't be for months and no one is very sure what it's actually going to look like. Aside from that even when CW is implemented I almost guarantee they're not going to remove the current hot dropping model. It's not going away. All your suggestions have no place in this game. Stop trying to force everyone to play like you!

Edited by Allekatrase, 01 April 2013 - 06:59 AM.