34 replies to this topic

[SkyCake]

just to be clear, "im in the LRM damage feels about right" camp...

playing on tourmaline with this

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5e36c8e49750a12

lots of lights in this game like four per side plus fast cicadas

i have LOS, tag, and artemis, firing at these fast moving lights and barely anything hits...

thats the problem... its not the damage, its the tracking... and if you think splash damage is the way to address this its my opinion that it is not... i think a fair percentage of missiles hitting a target that is tagged in LOS against artemis is 25-50%, depending on the angle, ecm or not... period... having like 0-3 missiles connect is a joke!!!!

you dont need to increase damage, or splash, you just need the lrms to connect!

if you up damage or splash, this doesnt affect lights, it just means slower moving mechs take way mor damage

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Yeah i was sparring with a Spider recently in my LRM Centurion, and i was noticing a lot of LRM's striking the ground as he ran.

I am curious whether that's intended.

[Ph30nix]

personaly best and easiest fix for missles is

increase flight speed minimum 2x what its speed is now, that travel time really kills their effectiveness
a slight damage bumb MIGHT be need but missles speed should cover it
RANDOMIZED MISSLE TARGET LOCATIONS!!!!

meaning you fire an LRM 10, each missle randomly locks in on a differnt mech part, with each part having a X% chance of being targeted so like CT gets 25% chance, Cockpit get 5%, arms get 20% Legs get 20% Left torso gets 15% right torso gets 15% that way the damage gets spread out more. so of the 10 missles
2-3 hit CT
1-2 hit RT
1-2 hit LT
1-2 Hit L Arm
1-2 Hit Right arm
1-2 Hit L Left
1-2 hit Right leg
and MAYBE 1 hits cockpit.

have this randomization ALSO effect streaks. would realy level playing field for lights that dont have ECM or missle hard points

Could even introduce components or pilot skills to allow manual targeting of locations (by manual it would increase that locations chance to be target for a missle by X%)

Edited by Ph30nix, 01 April 2013 - 11:15 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Ph30nix, on 01 April 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

personaly best and easiest fix for missles is

increase flight speed minimum 2x what its speed is now, that travel time really kills their effectiveness
a slight damage bumb MIGHT be need but missles speed should cover it
RANDOMIZED MISSLE TARGET LOCATIONS!!!!

meaning you fire an LRM 10, each missle randomly locks in on a differnt mech part, with each part having a X% chance of being targeted so like CT gets 25% chance, Cockpit get 5%, arms get 20% Legs get 20% Left torso gets 15% right torso gets 15% that way the damage gets spread out more. so of the 10 missles
2-3 hit CT
1-2 hit RT
1-2 hit LT
1-2 Hit L Arm
1-2 Hit Right arm
1-2 Hit L Left
1-2 hit Right leg
and MAYBE 1 hits cockpit.

have this randomization ALSO effect streaks. would realy level playing field for lights that dont have ECM or missle hard points

Could even introduce components or pilot skills to allow manual targeting of locations (by manual it would increase that locations chance to be target for a missle by X%)

Sounds way too complicated for the level of coding that PGI is capable of.

[Vrekgar]

LRM's only fly at 100kph. If your moving faster than that, Not a single missile will hit you.

As you approach that speed missiles have a hard time tracking and you will notice a significant fraction impact the ground. Its because of this that LRM's have only around a 30% hit rate.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Vrekgar, on 01 April 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

LRM's only fly at 100kph. If your moving faster than that, Not a single missile will hit you.

As you approach that speed missiles have a hard time tracking and you will notice a significant fraction impact the ground. Its because of this that LRM's have only around a 30% hit rate.

Well i have two issues.

One is, is that how it is suppose to work? Are mechs suppose to be able to "outrun" LRM's?

And two, I was under the impression the 30% hit rate was suppose to be more about cover, AMS and target lock-loss.

I've never understood it to be the case that mechs were intended to be able to outrun the LRM's.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 01 April 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[TheForce]

I notice the same thing on alpine. My Artemis+tag was pretty much useless against fast lights.

[Vrekgar]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 01 April 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

Well i have two issues.

One is, is that how it is suppose to work? Are mechs suppose to be able to "outrun" LRM's?

And two, I was under the impression the 30% hit rate was suppose to be more about cover, AMS and target lock-loss.

I've never understood it to be the case that mechs were intended to be able to outrun the LRM's.

They are not really, Its a missile for cripes sake.

30% represents nearly pure solid lock on until impact with confirmed actual hits. 70% just seem to either fail to register with stats tracking or plain fail to impact.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Vrekgar, on 01 April 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

They are not really, Its a missile for cripes sake.

30% represents nearly pure solid lock on until impact with confirmed actual hits. 70% just seem to either fail to register with stats tracking or plain fail to impact.

I dunno, I just find LRM's to be very underwhelming again, for the amount of annoyance involved in using them (contrary to some people's views, there is thought involved in using them properly, especially in PuGs).

And on the big maps, watching mechs literally go all Flash on me, and outrun a volley is demoralizing.

[Ph30nix]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 01 April 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

Well i have two issues.

One is, is that how it is suppose to work? Are mechs suppose to be able to "outrun" LRM's?

And two, I was under the impression the 30% hit rate was suppose to be more about cover, AMS and target lock-loss.

I've never understood it to be the case that mechs were intended to be able to outrun the LRM's.

that is how its SUPPOSED to be, but sadly people couldnt grasp the concept of cover so they had to give them a handicap. LRM's are one of the ONLY weapons that their hit rate depends more on your targets skill's then yours.

[MN03]

Vrekgar, on 01 April 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

LRM's only fly at 100kph. If your moving faster than that, Not a single missile will hit you.

As you approach that speed missiles have a hard time tracking and you will notice a significant fraction impact the ground. Its because of this that LRM's have only around a 30% hit rate.

Missiles fly 100 meters/second (=360kph), not 100kph.
But 100 m/s is still too slow. It's easy to hit Assaults and heavies, but a pain in the bum to hit lights/mediums. Increasing the speed should (hopefully) do it.

Edited by MN03, 01 April 2013 - 11:32 AM.

[Vrekgar]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 01 April 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

I dunno, I just find LRM's to be very underwhelming again, for the amount of annoyance involved in using them (contrary to some people's views, there is thought involved in using them properly, especially in PuGs).

And on the big maps, watching mechs literally go all Flash on me, and outrun a volley is demoralizing.

Missiles right now, As in right now, are all under a blanket hotfix due to a bug. They didnt fix the bug, they just nerfed missiles into the ground because all damage is amplified by the bug. So underwhelming performance is to be expected right now. Thats why you dont see LRM boats except once in a blue moon right now. Hardly anyone mounts them at all right now.

So if your really concerned about LRM's then your going to have to wait 2months+ to be allowed to complain and then you can complain but still be bitched at until they either fix missiles or you stop complaining.

My personal opinion is they should rip all missiles out of the game and rewrite them from scratch if the code is this hard to fix and balance. They need balance tweaks across the board in every iteration and they also need a clear, from the Devs own lips, answer: Once and for all, Are they Support weapons that dont deal "Damage" or are they normal weapons like everything else?

[SkyCake]

Vrekgar, on 01 April 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Missiles right now, As in right now, are all under a blanket hotfix due to a bug. They didnt fix the bug, they just nerfed missiles into the ground because all damage is amplified by the bug. So underwhelming performance is to be expected right now. Thats why you dont see LRM boats except once in a blue moon right now. Hardly anyone mounts them at all right now.

So if your really concerned about LRM's then your going to have to wait 2months+ to be allowed to complain and then you can complain but still be bitched at until they either fix missiles or you stop complaining.

My personal opinion is they should rip all missiles out of the game and rewrite them from scratch if the code is this hard to fix and balance. They need balance tweaks across the board in every iteration and they also need a clear, from the Devs own lips, answer: Once and for all, Are they Support weapons that dont deal "Damage" or are they normal weapons like everything else?

the nerfed damage isnt the issue right now... although they adjusted it to a level that they feel, and i as well, is right.... so even with fixes, lrm's are not likely to do more damage than they do today

THE ISSUE!!!! is against lights, barely any missiles hit and more often than not, missiles completely wiff altogether, despite having los, artemis, and tag all going for you... this is unacceptable, period!

[jeffsw6]

LRMs are not useless against light mechs. Even if they don't strike the target, they will force him to run or take cover. That is time when he is probably not shooting your team or doing anything else productive except outrunning your missiles.

LRM don't have to connect and to damage to have value. I fire them at enemies as a suppression / cover fire tactic, not so much to destroy enemies. If someone gets destroyed by LRMs then I got lucky.

[Revorn]

In my opinion, LRM dmg is crap atm, i deal more dmg with 2 LLasers, and dont need to use additional systems, to being able to hitt at all.

[MN03]

jeffsw6, on 01 April 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

LRMs are not useless against light mechs. Even if they don't strike the target, they will force him to run or take cover. That is time when he is probably not shooting your team or doing anything else productive except outrunning your missiles.

LRM don't have to connect and to damage to have value. I fire them at enemies as a suppression / cover fire tactic, not so much to destroy enemies. If someone gets destroyed by LRMs then I got lucky.

Good pilots always stay in motion when piloting a light mech. A light mech standing still is a dead mech.

I just had a brilliant idea (Oh man, I sometimes love myself *cough*). Here it comes... Why not give LRMs splash damage when it hits the ground (something like 10 meters splash, reduced damage of course the farther away the missile lands). This will:
1) Missiles which barely missed mechs still do damage (hints at light mechs)
2) Makes dumb-firing LRMs a better option (against ECM for example).

[jeffsw6]

MN03, on 01 April 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Why not give LRMs splash damage when it hits the ground (something like 10 meters splash, reduced damage of course the farther away the missile lands). This will:
1) Missiles which barely missed mechs still do damage (hints at light mechs)
2) Makes dumb-firing LRMs a better option (against ECM for example).

I would be willing to play that way for a day or two and see if it is reasonable. It is a beta game, after all.

[lorrylemming]

MN03, on 01 April 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Good pilots always stay in motion when piloting a light mech. A light mech standing still is a dead mech.

I just had a brilliant idea (Oh man, I sometimes love myself *cough*). Here it comes... Why not give LRMs splash damage when it hits the ground (something like 10 meters splash, reduced damage of course the farther away the missile lands). This will:
1) Missiles which barely missed mechs still do damage (hints at light mechs)
2) Makes dumb-firing LRMs a better option (against ECM for example).

Along the lines of this I think that LRMs should fire straight out of the mech, making dumb firing easier. Why do they decide to just pile into the ground?

Edited by lorrylemming, 01 April 2013 - 11:57 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I don't feel supressing fire is a good reason for LRM's not to hit against fast moving lights.

I get the concept, but it can be accomplished with other weapons and still do damage.

And honestly, lights are moving and bobbing and weaving constantly if they have any idea what they are doing. LRM's do not really effect that.

I also don't think straight fire LRM's really make sense either. I think I'd be ok with the current damage if they moved fast enough to hit targets more regularly.

[BlackBeltJones]

DO NOT EXPECT LRM's TO HIT SMALL, FAST MECHS ALL THE TIME.