44 replies to this topic

[MortarionX]

Was just wondering. I mean Assault is the class where bigger is better, but why didn't they ever design mechs heavier than 100 tons? Is there like a limit on size in lore? Enlighten me, because I would love to pilot a mech heavier than 100 tons (although it would be slower than molasses )

[Pariah Devalis]

Fluff wise? Because building a mech heavier would put undue strain on the actuators and internal structure of the mech, regardless of the materials used. Eventually, there was one "production" Superheavy Battlemech, the Omega. It was needlessly complex to operate, however, and used by the Blakists. I say one -production- Superheavy, as there was another Superheavy series, but they were all experimental tripod designs.

[MortarionX]

Wow looks and sounds sexy and the tripod design sounds pretty cool too. Wish I had one.

[Burnsidhe]

Design numbers. Simply; Assault mechs are more fragile than they look, and you hit problems with being able to *use* all the tonnage with the internal space limits. It's a balancing act, and above 100 tons, that balancing act becomes excessively difficult.

[Royalewithcheese]

Because it's a game and 100 is a big round number.

[The Prime Minister]

Although does anyone notice the irony in the fact that there were heavier TANKS built in the Second World War than the all-mighty assault mechs of 3050? I understand that the lore for the TT was written well before my time, but I thought those guys had a wee bit more imagination back then .

[ICUBurn]

Just like with cars technology changes and materials get lighter and stronger. Take a midsize car from the 60's that weighd 3800lb compare to one now after you remove all the iunk they have started puting in them in the 50years since (airbags sound dedening gps power everything) and the same size car would weigh arpund 2800lb. But still be a stronger car because technology in steels and compositS has improved.

[Archosaurusrev]

Joseph Djugashvilli, on 01 April 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

Although does anyone notice the irony in the fact that there were heavier TANKS built in the Second World War than the all-mighty assault mechs of 3050? I understand that the lore for the TT was written well before my time, but I thought those guys had a wee bit more imagination back then .

Tanks travel on treads, mechs travel on legs.

[The Prime Minister]

Archosaurusrev, on 01 April 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Tanks travel on treads, mechs travel on legs.

Tanks were designed in the 1910's, Mechs in the 2400+'s .
PS: you could always just make them bigger . Take, for instance, Supreme Cmmander. The Commander mech in the game was pretty much gigantic. The experimentals you could create were even bigger. Oh, and it has nukes... I love nukes.

Nonetheless, game lore is game lore, and to each game its own.

[Guchion]

Well look at the front page, after all the new 20000 ton titan class looks to solve all these issues.

[Buckminster]

Joseph Djugashvilli, on 01 April 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

Although does anyone notice the irony in the fact that there were heavier TANKS built in the Second World War than the all-mighty assault mechs of 3050? I understand that the lore for the TT was written well before my time, but I thought those guys had a wee bit more imagination back then .

But, have you also noticed that even though we had larger tanks in WW2, most modern tanks top off in the 60-70 ton range? Super-large vehicles are nothing but targets. Sure, they have firepower and armor, but they tend to have very low speed and maneuverability, which just makes them prime targets for air power and artillery.

[The Prime Minister]

Buckminster, on 01 April 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

But, have you also noticed that even though we had larger tanks in WW2, most modern tanks top off in the 60-70 ton range? Super-large vehicles are nothing but targets. Sure, they have firepower and armor, but they tend to have very low speed and maneuverability, which just makes them prime targets for air power and artillery.

The push towards lower-weight / higher speed started in WW2 when they started work on high muzzle velocity large caliber guns. There was only so much armor could do against overwhelming firepower so they decided that smaller & faster is better, true.

*however* shermans encountering a King Tiger defending a bridge with no way to flank it where sh*t out of luck even if the KT was probably defending the bridge because its suspension buckled & couldn't move any more .

Come to think of it, the American M1 Abrams is the largest tank in active service. Russian tanks started going low-weight small profile since the times of the IS tanks.

PS: when aircraft come for you (meaning your army lost air superiority), it doesn't matter what sort of tank you're in... It can be big, it can be small... they all have thin top armor .

[T0rmented]

On another note,
Why is the sky blue
Why is the grass green

[Stahlkopp]

Just a few ideas:

a) Smaller mechs can carry more weapons/armor per ton
More but smaller mechs can fullfill more different roles
c) More smaller mechs can cover a far bigger area than a big mech
d) Smaller mechs can use streets and bridges
e) Smaller mechs can use cover
f) Smaller mechs are much cheaper due to more mass-production
g) You would need much larger dropships and Jumpships to transport larger mechs
h) BTW: nukes are out, due to slipping into the stone age by using them in the early sucession war

[FromHell2k]

Joseph Djugashvilli, on 01 April 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

Although does anyone notice the irony in the fact that there were heavier TANKS built in the Second World War than the all-mighty assault mechs of 3050? I understand that the lore for the TT was written well before my time, but I thought those guys had a wee bit more imagination back then .

Quote

The Landkreuzer P 1500 Monster was a German pre-prototype super-heavy artillery designed during World War II, representing the apex of the German extreme tank designs.

http://en.wikipedia....P._1500_Monster

Edited by FromHell2k, 01 April 2013 - 01:00 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Tank

Basically, wheels (and feet) provide very small surfaces of contact with the ground. The heavier the object balanced on it is, the amount of force exerted on the ground increases tremendously. Even if you could build a superheavy mech, it would literally sink under its own weight on any unpaved surface and severely damage paved surfaces. If the foot pads were made big enough to disburse the weight of the mech over a wider area, the area required would likely make actually walking difficult (ever try walking with flippers on?).

Honestly, given the size of the assault mechs we currently have, under real world physics, they would be suffering from this already. Probably heavy mechs, as well. I think, aside from making it an easy cut off point in the rules, FASA's own team did not think they could pull off enough handwavium to make a superheavy plausible. Truth be told, I am surprised the Omega is not a Quadmech.

[Hayashi]

Royalewithcheese, on 01 April 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Because it's a game and 100 is a big round number.

And that is why the 200 ton Orca and 135 ton Ares is ********.

[Vesuvious]

This is somewhat of a tangent, but doesn't 100 tons for an atlas seem low. Judging from how tall it is and how big and bulky it is. Due to its size 100 ton does not seem enough. As someone else pointed out current MBT are 60ish ton.
Example Abrams is 60 tons and that's only 12 feet wide, 26 long and 8 high.

Edited by Vesuvious, 05 April 2013 - 06:45 AM.

[zraven7]

Pariah Devalis, on 01 April 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Fluff wise? Because building a mech heavier would put undue strain on the actuators and internal structure of the mech, regardless of the materials used. Eventually, there was one "production" Superheavy Battlemech, the Omega. It was needlessly complex to operate, however, and used by the Blakists. I say one -production- Superheavy, as there was another Superheavy series, but they were all experimental tripod designs.

Not sure about the viability, but It would certainly be interesting as hell to see an Omega in game.

[Buckminster]

With a speed of 32 kph, 3 gauss, 2 LB-10X and only 10 heat sinks, it'd be terrible.