34 replies to this topic

[PaladinXIII]

PanzerMagier, on 02 April 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

wow, absolutely disgusting. Light mech pilots QQ'ng about er ppcs now????! This is rediculous, "oh my gawd someone hit me with one of the hardest-to-aim weapons in game and I am the fastest/smallest mech, please it takes so much more skill than me so nerf it!"...

It's canon for the er ppc to have no minimum range. but we've all seen pgi chuck that out of the window.
So let's look at the other reasons why Er ppc SHOULDN'T get a nerf.

A) They're already heat cumbersome, I guess light mech pilots wouldn't know that it takes a lot of fire discipline to manage them.
B ) They're hard to aim, much like all ballistics, if you're a scout and you get hit by ballistic weapons then you're not being a really good light mech pilot (that or the shooting pilot is a great shot and deserves to nail your tiny **** with an ac20 slug/ppc shot).
C)Light mechs are horribly overpowered at the moment, you're saying you want to make them even more overpowered?

No, erppc's should not be nerfed. Why? because if you nerf that into the ground then you might as well start nerfing ac cannons and lasers and go just make some arbitrary changes to just screw over the entire game and you know what, then you can just chuck away the whole off-set game. Since it will be ruined.

I take ER PPCs in my mechs over the PPC because I want to be able to still use a weapon in close range, I'll take the heat penalty in order to use it.

As far as other reasons:

1) TT rules and canon state that by the time ER PPC was created, the 90m distance was resolved, there is 300 year technology gap between the PPC and the ER PPC. The same can be said with the AC/5 and UAC/5, you can't really compare the two because one is a direct upgrade over the other using better technology.

2) If anything needs to change with the ER PPC, I would say that it and the ER Large Laser need a slight heat reduction due to the insane heat build up, but then again they are ER weapons; for the extra range, there will be extra heat, so I'm willing to overlook the heat for now.

3) As far as a minimum range, as far as what PanzerMagier and others have said hold a lot of validity, the reason pilots taking the ER PPC is for both close and long-range bombardment. Those that choose to take an ER PPC know that they can't fire it like crazy because of the heat build-up and good pilots know to use it sparingly. The ER PPC and it's ballistic equivalent, the A/C 10 were built for long range effectiveness, in order soften up enemy mechs as your team closed in, with that said, hitting mechs at closer range and at high speeds is no easy feat, as missing means unnecessary heat build up (or wasted ammo for ballistics).

4) ER PPCs by themselves are not game-breaking, a normal mech carrying one or two is not going to insta-win a match.

This game is suppose to be about tactics, if you see a mech with normal PPCs, you engage them within their 90m bubble, prevent them from using their weapons, if you see a mech with ER PPCs you use cover and flank them or engage them with your team. If the enemy mech is a good pilot, they'll know not to spam their shots as they will shutdown so getting shot by their ER PPC is not as worrisome, if they're a bad pilot, well, they'll shutdown from heat and their remains will be delivered to their loved ones, assuming there is anything left...

[CutterWolf]

Skyraxx, on 02 April 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Well, sometimes cannon needs to be adjusted to make the game more balanced.

I'm not sure why you say PPC's are hard to aim, they're really easy to hit a target with. You only need to lead at the really far ranges and they travel at almost double the speed of a gauss round.

I don't notice anyone who has a hard time hitting someone with PPC's, but I'm not sure what it's like in the lower ELO matches, so that might be what you're talking about.

Unless you're trolling, a light or fast moving medium can't carry long range weapons. They're more or less brawlers who's survivability depends on being hard to hit. A poptart can kill them in one or two shots at close range because they're weapons deal damage instantaneously and don't require much skill or effort to hit a target. Giving them a min range would definitely balance things out.

LOL! nice try at the troll thing. Light mechs can't carry long range weapons eh? Really? That's funny since I clearly remember that even Spiders can carry ERPPC's. So that's out the window, and instant hit weapons don't require much skill or effort to hit a target?? Really? Do you play this game at all?

[blinkin]

Skyraxx, on 02 April 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Well, sometimes cannon needs to be adjusted to make the game more balanced.

I'm not sure why you say PPC's are hard to aim, they're really easy to hit a target with. You only need to lead at the really far ranges and they travel at almost double the speed of a gauss round.

I don't notice anyone who has a hard time hitting someone with PPC's, but I'm not sure what it's like in the lower ELO matches, so that might be what you're talking about.

Unless you're trolling, a light or fast moving medium can't carry long range weapons. They're more or less brawlers who's survivability depends on being hard to hit. A poptart can kill them in one or two shots at close range because they're weapons deal damage instantaneously and don't require much skill or effort to hit a target. Giving them a min range would definitely balance things out.

i mount an ERPPC on my primary jenner build.

i wonder about your high skill ELO matches where light pilots apparently are so good they no longer need dodging or evasion skills.

if ERPPC is a problem for light mechs then why aren't you screaming about bigger problems like AC20 or gauss rifle? at close ranges the weapon speed becomes much less important. even the slowest AC weapon AC20 can travel 300m within one third of a second ( http://mwowiki.org/w...ategory:Weapons ). most people do not have reaction speeds fast enough to avoid that and i don't think any mech is agile enough to make any course adjustment in that time.

[Skyraxx]

I never said lights can't carry a PPC. It's just not a very effective build. You might get into the higher ELO matches if you try something other than an er PPC on your jenner.

[Ryvucz]

We should nerf things that kill me, just saying.

[blinkin]

Skyraxx, on 02 April 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

I never said lights can't carry a PPC. It's just not a very effective build. You might get into the higher ELO matches if you try something other than an er PPC on your jenner.

those high ELO matches where light mechs no longer put any effort into evasion? i can't wait.

currently my KD is 1.4 and holding steady so i have not topped out on my ELO score yet. correction my KD for my primary jenner is 0.92 WITHOUT MOUNTING ANY STREAK LAUNCHERS.

besides ERPPC is ruthless light mech killing machine. sounds like an i win button to me. with 12 DHS and hit/run tactics i rarely build up very much heat.

Edited by blinkin, 02 April 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

no, not canon and makes no sense.

[Ol Dirty Bastard]

The ER PPC is fine as is, it is correct according to cannon and does not need any changes.

I however would like to see the field inhibitor come into play with the PPC. I think it would be great to allow players to disengage the field inhibitor and risk damage/destroying their PPC and the section of the mech that contains the PPC, for the chance of doing the full damage within 90 meters. If the chances of doing damage were roughly the same chance of a UAC-5 jamming, that would make it pretty risky to attempt. While complete destruction of the PPC, and damage to the section of the mech being slightly more rare would be a good balance for it.

Also I would like to see the EMP effect require 3 or more hits from a PPC, to disable ECM, and would also like to see the EMP effect disable HUD, and map info for about a second while the energy overload dissipates. ECM disable should last 4 seconds, as it is now.

[Markis Steiner]

I think the ERPPC should have a minimum range just to try and balance it to the PPC. Maybe the correct route would be to add in bonus/es to the PPC to make it a bit stronger to compare to the ERPPC. Just a few terrible ideas......

Maybe the EMP charge on the standard PPC is so great that the disruption effect on ECM is a few seconds longer. This effect could also randomly have a chance to cause 1-2 hp worth of feedback damage to the EMP unit on the hit mech.
Maybe the EMP charge causes the mech hit to lose missile lock for a split second but regains lock as soon as the EMP wears off. This effect could also possibly cause the hit mech to suffer from a target info reset, so they can not see damage and loadout of their target until it is regained by them or a lance mate.

Maybe those are bad examples, but something to bring the PPC back into the game to make it a viable option with it's minimum range.

[PaladinXIII]

Markis Steiner, on 02 April 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

I think the ERPPC should have a minimum range just to try and balance it to the PPC. Maybe the correct route would be to add in bonus/es to the PPC to make it a bit stronger to compare to the ERPPC. Just a few terrible ideas......

Maybe the EMP charge on the standard PPC is so great that the disruption effect on ECM is a few seconds longer. This effect could also randomly have a chance to cause 1-2 hp worth of feedback damage to the EMP unit on the hit mech.
Maybe the EMP charge causes the mech hit to lose missile lock for a split second but regains lock as soon as the EMP wears off. This effect could also possibly cause the hit mech to suffer from a target info reset, so they can not see damage and loadout of their target until it is regained by them or a lance mate.

Maybe those are bad examples, but something to bring the PPC back into the game to make it a viable option with it's minimum range.

The viable option for the PPC is that it produces less heat than an ER PPC, that's what most Stalkers(4 to 6) and K2 PPC Cats(4) run so they can manage heat better (though I loathe the idea of boating only one kind of weapon). There is no other way to change the ER PPC without breaking what it was originally intended for; it's a better version of a previous weapon, but it still has its own design flaws, it is up to the pilot to decide how they run their mech, either by keeping a 90m buffer or by running hot.

This doesn't sound much like an issue of balancing than it is of wanting a preference of how a weapon works.

[Ph30nix]

Skyraxx, on 01 April 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

I feel like this would help improve the balance of the game. This way light mechs, and other fast movers actually have a chance to harass poptarts.

i still harass poptarts just fine.....

[Shinikaru]

Skyraxx, on 01 April 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

I feel like this would help improve the balance of the game. This way light mechs, and other fast movers actually have a chance to harass poptarts.

light mechs already harass plenty fine considering they have the speed, and high armor ratings for said speed.
also, the advantage to the ER PPC is not the extended range really, it's the no minimum, that's its point. The trade off is its obscenely higher heat output.
If anything light mechs need balancing not ER ppcs.

[Shinikaru]

Werewolf486, on 02 April 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

no, not canon and makes no sense.

not a comment to your post, just your byline. STOP SHELTERING YOUR KIDS, THIS IS REAL LIFE. If it offends you, Disney exists, it even has its own channel on television.

[Ph30nix]

Terror Teddy, on 01 April 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

Except that the ER PPC that they based the fricking gun FROM did not HAVE the minimum range.



http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon

I have no problem with people wanting to BALANCE a gun but lets not bastardise them in order for them to be "balanced" or in some cases try to invent a NEW weapon just because there is a lack of choices (like wanting an AC/1 instead of balancing the MG as a viable choice.)

hey hey hey, dont kill off the AC/1 idea. If they are willing to give machine guns a slightly better range okay then i can live without it (in fact spider kinda requires a better MG) but im more worried about viable longer range ballistics for lights. And Ac/1 could fill that slot.

[The Schwartz]

Oh, that could be fun.. Have a switch to turn on/off the inhibitor at risk of some self inflicted side effects dmg/temp hud loss/ temp minimap loss....