30 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

Dropping alone? 100ton limit. (no limit.)

Dropping in a 4man? 260ton limit. (up to4 mechs: 260 tons)


Eureka, no All-Assault 4mans.
Also doesn't have MM trying to figure out how to fit pub teams into a tonnage limit- the 4man groups are built with it.

Discuss?

[ApolloKaras]

Livewyr, on 20 July 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Dropping alone? 100ton limit. (no limit.)

Dropping in a 4man? 260ton limit. (up to4 mechs: 260 tons)


Eureka, no All-Assault 4mans.
Also doesn't have MM trying to figure out how to fit pub teams into a tonnage limit- the 4man groups are built with it.

Discuss?

hmmm thats 3 cataphracts and a Treb/cent/hunch....
2 Highlanders, 1 hunchback/cent/treb, and a spider
2 Atlai, 2 Spiders
Feels like I'm playing MechCommander again lol.

I like it, but would it spell death for the 4 man group?

[Livewyr]

Saxie, on 20 July 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

hmmm thats 3 cataphracts and a Treb/cent/hunch....
2 Highlanders, 1 hunchback/cent/treb, and a spider
2 Atlai, 2 Spiders
Feels like I'm playing MechCommander again lol.

I like it, but would it spell death for the 4 man group?

Not really.. you know there'd be some crying about why people can't take 4 atlases to a pub match.. but whatever.

People want to play with their friends, that's cool- I wouldn't mind paying for it a little bit.
Gain real time teamwork? Pay in tonnage.

[Warge]

Livewyr, on 20 July 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Discuss?

Long time ago in a galaxy far, far away... there was balancing tool called "Battle Value". Now this technology lost.

[armyof1]

But, but me and my friends all play just Atlas and Highlanders, that's not fair!

On a serious note, I could live with a 300t limit. Just as long as we can get rid of 4 Stalkers or worse.

[PanzerMagier]

Good idea. Make a 450T-500T limit for 8man's. There, simple you see.

But PGI ~Neeeeeeeeeeeeeevaaaaaaaaaaaar~ listens to simple solutions.

[Nauht]

With teams of 8, we shouldn't have to drop with a premade 4 man team at all. They should be dropping with other 4 man teams.

They're just too effective as is BUT we'll see how 12v12 goes. Maybe the 4 man team won't have as big an impact now as they do in 8v8.

But purely from a player's pov, i'd hate to be limited in what I feel like piloting at that given time.
From a personal pov - any limit on dropping against premade 4 men teams, in the current 8v8, is good.

[ApolloKaras]

Warge, on 20 July 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

Long time ago in a galaxy far, far away... there was balancing tool called "Battle Value". Now this technology lost.

which means your Stalker has a Battle Value of 1610. 2 ER PPC, 2 PPCs 21 Double heat sinks XL 340 (table top and no endo) We know this thing has a higher battle value than a 95 ton mech with 54 kph, 2 LPL, 2 ERLL, 2 ER Meds, 2 MPL, 3 JJ's 25 doubles - which is a Turkina B with a BV over 3000.......

I could practically get 2 PPC boats for the price of that worthless Turkina, BV would be broken in this game.

Edited by Saxie, 20 July 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[Livewyr]

Saxie, on 20 July 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

which means your Stalker has a Battle Value of 1610. 2 ER PPC, 2 PPCs 21 Double heat sinks XL 340 (table top and no endo) We know this thing has a higher battle value than a 95 ton mech with 54 kph, 2 LPL, 2 ERLL, 2 ER Meds, 2 MPL, 3 JJ's 25 doubles - which is a Turkina B with a BV over 3000.......

I could practically get 2 PPC boats for the price of that worthless Turkina, BV would be broken in this game.

Not to mention: Endo would be a benefit on some mechs, and a curse on others- making them stupid builds.

Would FF be considered negative BV? lol

[ApolloKaras]

Livewyr, on 20 July 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Not to mention: Endo would be a benefit on some mechs, and a curse on others- making them stupid builds.

Would FF be considered negative BV? lol

Technically yes. With Ferro I can only manage a BV of 1,522, thats because of the heat however. Even with Endo I have about 7.5 tons left with zero crit slots with 18 DHS.

Another thing about BV is that you are trying to balance the weapon by giving it a number. Oh this weapon is OP, eh just give it a higher BV, no need to balance it. :| I don't think that is the right approach.

[Warge]

Saxie, on 20 July 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

BV would be broken in this game.

Why?

[ApolloKaras]

Warge, on 20 July 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

Why?

For the reason I stated in that post you quoted


Its going to have to stay updated. As you balance weapons you are going to have to move these BV numbers up and down. Using the BV from TT would be worthless, just see the example that I made. So where would you start?

EDIT: Flavor of the month builds higher BV for those weapons, oh SSRM's are tweaked this week gotta raise the BV on those, oh the AC2 has a longer recycle time this week lets move the BV down a little etc etc

EDIT: There were more than 2 edits :| lol

Edited by Saxie, 20 July 2013 - 04:59 PM.

[Warge]

Saxie, on 20 July 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Its going to have to stay updated. As you balance weapons you are going to have to move these BV numbers up and down.

Tonnage limits also don't work very well. So, no balanced matches at all?

On second thought there is no need to move all sliders at once. Give TT values and stop on it. Balance with this BVs weapons and heat threshold, then balance R&R. Only after that - move BVs up or down.

Edited by Warge, 20 July 2013 - 05:15 PM.

[ApolloKaras]

Warge, on 20 July 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

Tonnage limits also don't work very well. So, no balanced matches at all?

On second thought there is no need to move all sliders at once. Give TT values and stop on it. Balance with this BVs weapons and heat threshold, then balance R&R. Only after that - move BVs up or down.

Lets give another example of why BV will not work.

ShadowCat prime - 1 Gauss, 2 ER meds, 1 Bap. Granted this is a clan design, so lets move this to an IS design. I have removed masc. So currently I have 1 Gauss, 2 ER Meds, 10 DHS, 4 jj's 270 XL. BV: 1419. You mean to say this design is 200 BV less than the 4 ppc stalker?? You would have to revamp the entire BV System. Throw out the TT rules because they've already doubled the armor, you have pinpoint alpha's, you cannot use the current BV numbers from TT.


Tonnage limits circumvent the above possibility....

Edited by Saxie, 20 July 2013 - 05:26 PM.

[TheDeckardCain]

It's a pity because an idea as simple as this will get over shadowed by the likes of the 15 page dissertations provided by some players to balance this balance that. I love this idea. Keep it simple

[Roland]

This is perhaps not a terrible idea.

[ApolloKaras]

Roland, on 20 July 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

This is perhaps not a terrible idea.

Yeah I mean it would keep the solo guys from complaining about omg 4 man!!111

It may not cure it but.... may curb some of the complaints

Edited by Saxie, 20 July 2013 - 08:06 PM.

[Xie Belvoule]

Terrible Idea...

2 Stalkers
1 Cataprhact 3D
1 Locust

260 tons

[saagri]

Interesting idea, I would like to see a xxx/260 tons in the group menu so people know if there group is too heavy.

[Darwins Dog]

Something along those lines might just work, but I see two potential hiccups.

One is people running solo but sync dropping via Teamspeak or the like. Not much you can do there I suppose except maybe have the matchmaker stagger the clicks (maybe randomly delay your search start up to 10 seconds? idk).

The other is that with light mechs being so rare right now the easiest way to win is dropping in 4 lights with cap accelerator. You will probably never see more than 1 opposing light mech and maybe a cicada.