42 replies to this topic

[TheUncle]

all of your concerns are basically things the Engine has to handle.
CryEngine 3 is highly optimized for Multicore, that's for sure. Unfortunately there was no version of Crysis 2 for 64 bit, but every version of the Free CryEngine 3 Software Development Kit always provides 64bit files natively.
No worries in this regard, really.

[Renan Ruivo]

MadBoris, on 02 June 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

Essentially 64 bit opens a memory ceiling but what that implies goes far deeper in terms of potential gameplay scalability on how much System and Video RAM is accessible, etc. It's what it means to the game massiveness including higher quality assets, but even more immediately we need a 64 bit executable to insure we don't hit a user application space threshold in the OS, as I mentioned, which can happen on high resolutions/settings, especially with the tweakability of Cry3.

Well TL;DR the OP, tbh

So what you want is the 64bit executable?! Even the first Crysis had that if i'm not mistaken.


Blame the consoles.

[MadBoris]

TheUncle, on 02 June 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

all of your concerns are basically things the Engine has to handle.
CryEngine 3 is highly optimized for Multicore, that's for sure. Unfortunately there was no version of Crysis 2 for 64 bit, but every version of the Free CryEngine 3 Software Development Kit always provides 64bit files natively.
No worries in this regard, really.

The engine rolls out with the features, yep. I'm pretty familiar with the engine from time I've spent with it.
And yes the Cryengine requires 64 bit for development, one can make 32 or 64 bit binaries for consumers.
That doesn't make a 64 bit binary a 64 bit code safe binary. I would like at the very least a safe 64 bit binary for reasons most gamers are unaware of, so I am curious if they are supporting it for release, even if they don't leverage the 64 bit build at all. This has to do with how they have been writing code if they have been adhering to maintaining a 64 bit safe code, or if they intend to go in afterwards, which they may have to and not know it yet.


I would really like to hear if they are leveraging 64 bit at all, the technology has been around for quite some time, and any game engineer knows the 32 bit cieling because they hit their head on it, they know it all too well aware.

As far as multithreading, after the render thread the AI and physics are next in line. Since these guys aren't pushing either from what we have seen, personally, I would like to know what they are doing with the second thread for reasons that would educate myself and others.

I'm just using these posts to further clarify the points for all who read them.

Not worried either, just curious.

Renan Ruivo, on 02 June 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

So what you want is the 64bit executable?! Even the first Crysis had that if i'm not mistaken.
Blame the consoles.

hehe, all that text for that...Well that is one thing I want, at the very least. The focus of the topic is leveraging!
It's all about the power of the lever!

Oh, and last I checked PGI didn't develop Crysis, Crytek did. I would imagine they have some different ideas/skill sets, etc

Edited by MadBoris, 02 June 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[Suicidal Idiot]

Solidworks is medium level CAD (Computer Aided Design) software. They're sensitive to customers wanting to get every last bit of oomph out of their systems.

Like MS Windows 7, Solidworks ships with 2 dvd's. 32 bit and 64 bit.

I would imagine that you write the software for 64 bit machines, then use a 64 and a 32 bit compiler on the same source code. In my wildly unqualified imagination, I'd think that the compilers would handle the differences seamlessly.

Quote

From MyCryengine.com:
To get the most out of modern multi-core processor architectures, CPU-intensive subsystems of CryENGINE®3 – such as graphics, physics, AI, networking and sound – have been optimized to support multiple processors, including innovative support for PlayStation®3 SPU.

Folks in forums are also talking about Crysis 1 having 32 and 64 bit executables. The impression I got about Crysis 2 was that they used the same executable, and your OS determined if you were running 64 bit or not. Others mentioned that 64 bit didn't seem to offer much benefit, while others said it was huge.

I'd be awfully surprised if the game release couldn't take advantage of the very best hardware available. Beautiful graphics sell, and selling is the name of the game for anybody wanting to stay in business.

[Tyra]

I'd be happy with it just being able to use all my ram.

That reminds me, I need to get my motherboard replaced, blech.

[MadBoris]

To the Idi0t, (It was just fun saying that)

The game IP and it's potential is absolutely deserving, that is for sure.

I'm glad so many aren't against the idea of utilizing what many of us already have in our boxes, because a lot of people already have 64 bit multicore CPU's with 4GB RAM, or more, with much of it not utilized or underutilized, not bashing consoles but that is the major reason.

It's just a matter of their resources available and priorities...with talent, skill, some work...few other things...

Edited by MadBoris, 02 June 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[MadBoris]

Tyra, on 02 June 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'd be happy with it just being able to use all my ram.

If there isn't a 64 bit binary, you'll be utilizing about 1.7GB RAM tops.

Hope that is enough, any more is just filling slots.

[Vesper Darktide]

As an addendum, I run a 64 bit core 2 duo, its about 4-5 years old, the gpu is new though. I wouldn't expect to run any of these programs without more than 4gb of ram and at least 2 cores.

[Randalf Yorgen]

guess I'm part of that third who doesn't have 64 bit. sorry but my motherboard wont support it (Asus P5K, Just P5K nothing else) I am also running XP and a Core 2 dual @3gig, I could load windows 7 but I would have to run it in 32 bit mode so really what's the point? I have 4 gigs of ram, 500gig HD and a Video Card with 1 gig DDR3 onboard memory. I'm really sorry if you feel my computer is lacking but I don't have thousands of dollars of disposable income just laying around. I respect that you would like to max out everything you can with your computer and congrats for having such vast knowledge and abilities but some of us get what we can and have to make it last for a very long time. This computer is 5 years old but I have been able to update the video and the soundcards and it still works very well. I do believe the Devs are keeping people like me in mind while they prepare the game because they know that not being able to play the game will not make us go get better computers, it will simply make us walk away. Besides, in a year or so I'll be starting to looks around to see what's out there and think about getting a new system and right about then I suspect that there could be some kind of expansion coming out as well. But not today.

[Clay Pigeon]

I was under the impression that CE3 supported multithreading.

[Spooky]

TheUncle, on 02 June 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

all of your concerns are basically things the Engine has to handle.
CryEngine 3 is highly optimized for Multicore, that's for sure. Unfortunately there was no version of Crysis 2 for 64 bit, but every version of the Free CryEngine 3 Software Development Kit always provides 64bit files natively.
No worries in this regard, really.

That is a very naive statement. As of yet, there is not good publicly available documentation on what exactly the CryEngine 3 is capable of doing in terms of multi-threading. If anything, the user of the engine still has to make sure to use these capabilities to their fullest extent, if possible. Sure, some tasks, like rendering and scene traversal will be purely done by the Graphics Engine itself, without the developer having to interfere, but anything beyond that might still be up to the developer himself.

Randalf Yorgen, on 02 June 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

guess I'm part of that third who doesn't have 64 bit. sorry but my motherboard wont support it (Asus P5K, Just P5K nothing else)

What exactly do you mean by that? The Motherboard itself cannot not support a 64-bit OS (in your case, since it's a Socket 775 Motherboard). Some (or possibly all) components on it might not have 64-bit drivers though. But there are 64-bit drivers available for the Intel P35 chipset (which is on the ASUS P5K). There are also 64-bit drivers available for your onboard audio chipset. I do not know where you could have gotten the idea from, that your motherboard somehow would "not support 64-bit".

Edited by Spooky, 02 June 2012 - 05:31 PM.

[Vesper Darktide]

Spooky, on 02 June 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

What exactly do you mean by that? The Motherboard itself cannot not support a 64-bit OS (in your case, since it's a Socket 775 Motherboard). Some (or possibly all) components on it might not have 64-bit drivers though. But there are 64-bit drivers available for the Intel P35 chipset (which is on the ASUS P5K). There are also 64-bit drivers available for your onboard audio chipset. I do not know where you could have gotten the idea from, that your motherboard somehow would "not support 64-bit".

I'll second that, I have the same chipset I'm running 64 bit comfortably The real problem now though is finding a Socket 775 CPU, I've been looking for a quad core but the series of CPUs is almost completely out of sale.

[MadBoris]

Randalf Yorgen, on 02 June 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

guess I'm part of that third who doesn't have 64 bit. sorry but my motherboard wont support it (Asus P5K, Just P5K nothing else) I am also running XP and a Core 2 dual @3gig, I could load windows 7 but I would have to run it in 32 bit mode so really what's the point? I have 4 gigs of ram, 500gig HD and a Video Card with 1 gig DDR3 onboard memory. I'm really sorry if you feel my computer is lacking but I don't have thousands of dollars of disposable income just laying around. I respect that you would like to max out everything you can with your computer and congrats for having such vast knowledge and abilities but some of us get what we can and have to make it last for a very long time. This computer is 5 years old but I have been able to update the video and the soundcards and it still works very well. I do believe the Devs are keeping people like me in mind while they prepare the game because they know that not being able to play the game will not make us go get better computers, it will simply make us walk away.

They would never leave 32 bit users out. My question was did they add anything for those that can run 64 bit, quite different than your perspective. I made that clear in the initial post, but I forgive people missing it among all the text.
Utilizing 64 bit does not preclude 32 bit, that will be supported for another couple years.

This wasn't really about excluding anyone, except possibly single core CPU users, 7%, but with a large tradeoff, although it won't happen in this game, that is really for a game engine being built from the ground up requiring multithreading to benefit greatly.

It's unfortunate that you have 1GB of RAM extra in your computer that is impossible to be addressed because you are on 32 bit. Having a 64 bit CPU and operating system would allow to make full use of that RAM, plus be able to use it for the game. It doesn't make things worse, better. Your computer may have issues because of it's overall age and HW, hardly due to my suggestions.

You can expect this for CryEngine 3 as a baseline, it has nothing to do with making better use of HW:

• Supported OS: Windows XP SP2, Windows Vista, Windows 7
  
• 32-bit or 64-bit CPU ( multicore highly recommended )
  
• 1 Gb RAM ( 2 Gb recommended )
  
• Graphics card with support for Shader Model 3.0 ( Nvidia GeForce 6600 or better, or GFX cards from ATI/AMD in the same generation )

As long as your graphics card is at least that good, you should be close.


I understand your concerns, while their is always eventually a 'too old' line, no one knows when that is for a game.

Edited by MadBoris, 02 June 2012 - 06:13 PM.

[Karyudo ds]

Aegis Kleais, on 02 June 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Though MWO is far and above the best looking MW game I've seen, and Matt's commitment to visual fidelity to sell immersion is commendable in its namesake alone, the footage so far (which yes, I understand is only beta) isn't THAT realistic in its visuals.

To be fair MW4 looked like butt. I mean I don't remember any specular or normal mapping. Granted it was a couple years before that was in EVERYTHING but I remember when MW4 Mercs came out Mechassault came out at the same time...and look a LOT more advanced visually. Pity you can't say much else about it but either way beating MW4 visually isn't hard at all and one thing that makes me happy about MW:O, it actually looks competitively good.

Celestial, on 02 June 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

64-bit utilization, multithreaded coding, DirectX11... All of that is much less important than you think.
I have seem games (Crysis, Witcher 2) that have no DX11 support...

Funny thing, Crysis was the poster child for DX10...so obviously it had no DX11 support as that wasn't out but DX10 still didn't look any better or run better than DX9 in that case. Though for a relevant example look at Crysis 2 with patched in DX11 support.

Or go check out Unigine's Heaven benchmark. DX11 makes a HUGE difference in the environmental geometry in that example...in fact most of it is literally flat with tessellation off. There's also the video clip of Arkham City with and without. I mean it doesn't replace the gameplay but sure makes things look more interesting.

MadBoris, on 02 June 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

HW tesselation, now that is what I am talking about.
I think PGI are a couple steps away from going there, although CryEngine3 is always a work in progress of sorts.
As unrealistic as tesselation would be, boy that would be something amazing for next gen looking mechs with all the nice curves in the metal.

Well like I said, I was pretty sure Unreal had it, but that doesn't mean the developers are using it. I think it makes more impact on the environments though, give those heightmaps some real detail! Deus Ex does use it, but only on the characters. Makes them look nicer, but I didn't realize it was even on at first

Edited by Karyudo ds, 02 June 2012 - 06:27 PM.

[MadBoris]

Karyudo ds, on 02 June 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

Well like I said, I was pretty sure Unreal had it, but that doesn't mean the developers are using it. I think it makes more impact on the environments though, give those heightmaps some real detail! Deus Ex does use it, but only on the characters. Makes them look nicer, but I didn't realize it was even on at first

yeah, I've seen just about all the HW tesselation videos and played with the the realtime NVIDIA demos, Heaven, etc.
You can tell it's on. It's still expensive but for characters like Mechs, being able to multiply the amount of triangles exponentially could be impressive, depends on the detail achieved. Could be quite sometime before we are all ready for it collectively.

Edited by MadBoris, 02 June 2012 - 06:32 PM.

[Karyudo ds]

MadBoris, on 02 June 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:

yeah, I've seen just about all the HW tesselation videos and played with the the realtime NVIDIA demos, Heaven, etc.
You can tell it's on. It's still expensive but for characters like Mechs, being able to multiply the amount of triangles exponentially could be impressive, depends on the detail achieved. Could be quite sometime before we are all ready for it collectively.

Oh yeah, I think my old dual core was able to run Heaven with it on just fine. Like your point though, it scales back. In the case of tessellation it's just a displacement map too, so not much more work to get more bang.

[Renan Ruivo]

MadBoris, on 02 June 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

Oh, and last I checked PGI didn't develop Crysis, Crytek did. I would imagine they have some different ideas/skill sets, etc

Crytek developed the Cryengine, which is being used by PGI to make MW:O. So i gather you are worrying wether or not PGI will make use of that?!

Well i'm on that boat too then.

[LordDeathStrike]

i concur, its long past time windows xp and 32 bit were no longer supported. dx 11 is out, quad cores are cheap, 64 bit is more secure, although ill be going 128 bit on my next windows os upgrade since itll be the new option for proper gamers.

im sorry you spent too much on your old dinosaur that needs to run 32 bit xp because you are anti paying for your OS ect, but we shouldnt pander to you just because you dont budget for a new pc more then once every 10 years.

[LordDeathStrike]

Randalf Yorgen, on 02 June 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

guess I'm part of that third who doesn't have 64 bit. sorry but my motherboard wont support it (Asus P5K, Just P5K nothing else) I am also running XP and a Core 2 dual @3gig, I could load windows 7 but I would have to run it in 32 bit mode so really what's the point? I have 4 gigs of ram, 500gig HD and a Video Card with 1 gig DDR3 onboard memory. I'm really sorry if you feel my computer is lacking but I don't have thousands of dollars of disposable income just laying around. I respect that you would like to max out everything you can with your computer and congrats for having such vast knowledge and abilities but some of us get what we can and have to make it last for a very long time. This computer is 5 years old but I have been able to update the video and the soundcards and it still works very well. I do believe the Devs are keeping people like me in mind while they prepare the game because they know that not being able to play the game will not make us go get better computers, it will simply make us walk away. Besides, in a year or so I'll be starting to looks around to see what's out there and think about getting a new system and right about then I suspect that there could be some kind of expansion coming out as well. But not today.

you could get a new 1000x better system for under 1000, and as a pc gamer, you should budget for a pc to game on. the game will run on dx9 so theres hope you can run on down and dirty on low though. either way save up and slap together a 1k budget gamer rig, dx 11 is so very pretty.

[Adrienne Vorton]

with a 32bit system you have problems with MANY games since ..uhm i say...2010, becoming more and more...i don´t think this game will make an exception... i know that my rig is finally getting to its limits this year,(4gb dualcore AMD) but i hope a better gfx-card will do the job on MWO for me... since i have to upgrade my machine part by part, as long as i´m in readjucation...

basically, running a 32bit system with less than 3gb is not a good idea for a gamer for a while now...

Edited by Adrienne Vorton, 03 June 2012 - 12:55 AM.