28 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

Aim64C, on 03 April 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Perhaps it is because I have not seen the 'mechanics' of how the game works that leaves me confused...

but all of the patches PGI has released for this game amount to a single day of trial, error, and troubleshooting with some of my old C&C mods back when I was doing it with notepad and editing the ini files that were parsed into the executable at launch.

I mean... I just don't understand what the big deal is about 'adding weapons' and other such things. I've done that stuff under several different engines in less than about 30 minutes (once you have the resources to add - though if you're just re-scripting an existing resource...). If you wanted to go in and change a bunch of strings hidden in archaic ways that were never intended to be edited - then it might take another 30 minutes. So, an hour.

Changing LRM damage values and splash? Unless they have some absolutely ***-backwards system, it sould be as simple as "Edit, Ctrl+F "Long Range Missile," adjust values to taste, DONE."

Oh - close out and save.

Perhaps they forgot that last step.

Okay - fine - maybe you have to adjust the damage values for each launcher... but it's not some witchcraft that requires a voodoo master. If that is what is actually required, someone needs to be fired and they need to put someone in charge who has got a clue.

I mean... I am just continually boggled by all of the effort these guys seem to go through for so little effect. Perhaps they are honestly working on this thing... but if that's the case, they need to sit down with a CryEngine for Dummies book, take a few courses, or just find better employees - something to improve the yield for their efforts...

I mean... for God's sake... mod teams composed of five people with full-time jobs accomplish more in six months than PGI has accomplished in the same time with a team of 50 and their full time job is making a game. Is there just that much going on behind the scenes that is awaiting some paradigm shifting update... or what?

Your not the only one that gets this feeling I'm sure.

Mod teams however don't need to deal with the same issues devs do in this type of environment. Here, everyone must be made happy. With mods, split off mods can make each group happy.

[DreadDjinn]

Maybe the missiles should mirror real life physics. A direct hit with a shaped charge does good damg (maybe a 2 dmg LRM). A nearby explosion does crap damage everywhere (.05 damage splash large radius). And make the missile spread crap *** (without artemis), kinda crap (artemis), kinda decent (tag), excellent (narc). So that someone charging into missiles dies like an *****, but dodging most of the spread makes it typically weak. Also, narc would be worth something. It's also cononical. The damage of an LRM salvo depends less on the missile and more on how many of them hit.

[Eternal Hunter]

Lrm's are hard to balance.
They are the only category of indirect, long range fire and forget weapons.

You could lookat game stats. They must have lots of stats for the game for balance purposes.
That is, how many missiles was fired, how many actually hit, what locations did it hit.
Make a heat/tonnage comparison to other weapons too see how effecient it is compared if other weapons were used.

But this still won't make it, as the shoot from cover functionality is priceless. The same goes for the supression effect it has when you get that nice message telling you of incoming missiles and you get a mech out of the front lines as it scramble for cover.
Those functions are hard to put a damage value on.

In my view they need to up the damage a bit from 0,7, and spread the damage more for hit locations, and see how that goes.

Another view would be to up the damage a lot more, and also make AMS more effective and costly tonnage wise. That way you only have to blame yourself when you made the build and didn't want to put AMS in.
You can't QQ when you built it with no missile defense.

Edited by Eternal Hunter, 06 April 2013 - 01:34 PM.

[Sybreed]

as I've said numerous times... LRMs are perhaps the weapon which boating makes balancing a lot harder than it should be. A dual LRM 20 should be a fearful weapon and with decent damage per missile, they deal good damage. When a mech can fire 100 LRMs at once though "coughstalkercough", it simply isn't balanced anymore because a weapon that dealt good damage when non boated deals too much damage when boated.

Overnerf said LRMs because of said damage, and now you're stuck with "canon builds" (by this I mean 40 or less LRMs being fired at once) being completely useless and boating becomes the only way to make LRM a viable weapon.

In short, PGI's system is broken

[ICEFANG13]

If multiple units are making a problem, you can always reduce ammo per ton, but increase damage to compensate. If a LRM-60 boat only gets 1 shot a ton, then you have a lot less problems, but if it did the same damage as LRM-180, then LRM-5 would be just as viable.

Just quick numbers here, its never impossible to balance a weapon being boated without removing the problem directly.

[Zebran]

What if only streaks locked on... would it be possible to make lrms an artillery weapon that did damage in a radius depending on their tubes, they'd have to travel fast so that they could hit anything, but it would add an element of finesse back to using them.

How to fire them over terrain accurately? A good question, perhaps a toggle of some kind.

In the table top lrms and srms were functionally the same save for distance and damage, why can't that be the case here?

[Marius Malthus]

Sybreed, on 06 April 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

as I've said numerous times... LRMs are perhaps the weapon which boating makes balancing a lot harder than it should be. A dual LRM 20 should be a fearful weapon and with decent damage per missile, they deal good damage. When a mech can fire 100 LRMs at once though "coughstalkercough", it simply isn't balanced anymore because a weapon that dealt good damage when non boated deals too much damage when boated.

Overnerf said LRMs because of said damage, and now you're stuck with "canon builds" (by this I mean 40 or less LRMs being fired at once) being completely useless and boating becomes the only way to make LRM a viable weapon.

In short, PGI's system is broken

totally agree. the problem with srm's was the streak cat and other builds with 4 or more srm's 6. they nerfed them and a canon mech with dual srm6's suffered.

im seeing more and more tonnage in teams. so all in all the so called "we dont want an arms race" that pgi didnt wanted is happening.

[barnmaddo]

The only problem I see with missiles is that they are hard to use. AMS, ECM breaking locks, people behind cover, minimum range. All made worse by the relatively long flight time.

[Mazzyplz]

no i disagree, if lurmaggedon taught us anything, is that they're not that hard to use.

LRM and SRM need a buff right now. at least with LRM you can spam them indirectly and have 180 ammo per ton, so you can make up for the lack of damage.

srm you use at close range, and it just doesn't do it. ballistics will shoot your components off 1 by 1 while your missiles do jack.