59 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

tuokaerf, on 02 April 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

PGI is on a 2 week patch cycle, which is pretty breakneck for a QA team. They need to test the changes and new features, along with a regression to ensure nothing else was changed. With the type of game this is, that's not a simple task.

Add in variables like different computer hardware configurations, it's almost impossible for them to catch everything.

Additionally, patches may go up with bugs that are intentionally left to be fixed later. I agree it sucks, but the more detailed and thorough people can be about bug feedback, the better chance of getting it fixed.

I hate to blindly white knight, but I more or less agree.

PGI is a small company that is essentially building the game around us as we play. Their ridiculously short patch cycle means a lot of crap comes up.

It's a double edge sword. On the one hand you get little content boosts every few weeks. On the other hand, you wind up with crazy bugs that either slip through the cracks or weren't fixable in time to make the build.

You don't see this as much for other games because most companies wouldn't even let people play the game right now. And when they did let people play, they would only release a couple patches a year. Personally, I'd rather play the game and put up with the occasional game-breaking bug, then be stuck drooling over screenshots for the next 6 months.

Edited by Jman5, 02 April 2013 - 10:48 PM.

[Texas Merc]

Breaks aren't given when they boast about most successful MC only mech ever

[MischiefSC]

I can't help but wonder why every time something is other than perfect it is clearly the worst thing that has ever happened. EVER. In the history of forever.

This particular patch clearly included some graphical changes - probably shaders, those are one of the really nasty bugbears for different cards and drivers. I don't know for certain though. You wonder why a lot of PC games don't take advantage of the more advanced visual effects though other than the generic crap that they can make for standardized xbox or PS3?

You're soaking in it.

Wipe your tears away though little soldier, I'm sure it'll be fixed in short order. I realize that this may take HOURS, possibly even a couple of DAYS, which is an almost inconceivable stretch of time to not get to play the computer game you want the way you want to play it but it'll get fixed.

Can only speculate as to the cause but I'm hoping it can be rolled out or resolved without buggering the new vision modes. Notice how the lighting changed some on Caustic and other maps? Betcha dollars to donuts it's shaders or something to do with the HDR bloom effect changes or the like.

Worry about making arty and airstrikes useful without being OPed. That'll take longer to fix. The visual stuff will be up and going in short order and hopefully nobody will hang themselves or slit their wrists in the painful, agonizing hours that these life-destroying, civilization crushing graphics bugs continue before they are fixed.

[Frederik Focht]

Texas Merc, on 02 April 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

Breaks aren't given when they boast about most successful MC only mech ever

And how is this related to the super-short testing and QC cycle of fortnightly patches? I hate this patch, I really do, because I tried jumping into a match 10 times and 9 out of 10 times, either the screen was black or the graphics were borked. But I do understand that PGI is a SMALL company and that they will need time to fix their ****.

FYI, all the money they are getting for the new HM is coming in now, not before THIS PATCH. So maybe with the new influx of funds, they can get more staff to make this game a better place for all of us.

Edited by Frederik Focht, 02 April 2013 - 11:13 PM.

[Kotsuno]

Since CB, I have not stopped playing MWO at least a good handful of hours each week if not more. This patch looks likeit will drive me to my first long hiatus from the game... I can't even successfully join any match... I am truly disappointed right now, and having bought the HM after looking forward to piloting it all week, this broken patch leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

=(

[Zolaz]

My minimap has been hurting more than usual after the last patch. LSD minimap, no minimap, no HUD. I even get them now on a first match after I load up the game.

[Kasiagora]

I remember a while back they did a big patch that released nothing new. People wanted new stuff, we were looking forward to new stuff, but they postponed it. They said they were bumping it back a little bit because it needed work before they'd release whatever it was. It's been a while and I have a hard time making mental landmarks of MW:O stuff... can't remember what it was they were going to release. It's old news now anyway, whatever it was.

So what did they do with this big patch instead? They fixed what felt like dozens of little bugs. You know how it is if you run 8 mans, you may not get a bug that often, but someone on your team would get the yellow screen, or disconnected, or the 4 fps bug, or any number of other things. No matter what you'd be short at least one man in each match. So they took a week and just ironed things out without adding new content.

And do you know what happened? People were happy. Matches were played with relative ease. The game still had bugs of course, but now you could play more than 4 games in a row without something going catastrophic. And it was good. I mean, it was really good.

I wish they'd do that again. Preferably yesterday.

[Eternal Hunter]

I know people cry "but it's beta" all the time, but they still let you buy stuff in the game for real money.
So, screw that, this is just another screwup in a long line of screwups. And still they add more MC items that you buy with real money.

Fix the bugs, do proper Q&A then start focusing on earning money for crying out loud.
Too bad we gamers are so used to getting shafted with patches, and beta and bugs, that this is becoming the norm these days. And we just take it. I love(d) the concept of this game, but i'm seriously wondering if it doesn't just deserve to fail.
Let someone else buy the scraps and do something proper with the IP.

[Kyynele]

Cascal, on 02 April 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Before too many people start going on about how "it's a beta", riddle me this: Isn't the point of beta to get rid of bugs, not introduce more?

You're talking about a beta for a product that has all it's features. Instead of just bugfixes we get new features. New features usually come with new bugs. You can also consider https://en.wikipedia.../Perpetual_beta

If you think this game is feature complete, I can sympathize with you. I personally think it still needs new features, and I think it's good that we're getting new features, even if I personally wouldn't love them all and they come with those new annoying bugs.

[l4Dl]

Cryll Ankiseth, on 03 April 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

Why is it so hard (and long, and expensive..) to test for bugs? The biggest and most common thread between all hugs is hardware related. Not everybody uses the game graphics card, and so on and so on. It is only feasibly possible to test on a certain range of cards and setups without completely blowing your budget out of proportion.

This is an incorrect mindset which seems to offer a easy explanation for users without programming experience. The cryengine 3 is a solid engine which is vigorously tested on all hardware.
Its fully DX9/11 compatible/tested, if the code which runs inside this engine is "programmed correctly", they will be no bugs, ever.
You cant blame the Cryengine 3 for any of these bugs, you just being ignorant if you are.

If you dont believe me, have a look at the scripts.pak file, if your a programmer, you notice major inconsistencies with the code, and, high usage of preset/sample code from CryEngine3 sample library (most of which isnt being used, eg, nano suit).
Clean code = easy debugging/testing/implementations.
Messy code = lack of knowledge, increased bug count, harder to debug (fix).

I'am sure they will get it right, takes time, but you cant ignore the fact of some really bad code in this game, is one of the main reasons for bugs.

[Exoth3rmic]

Whilst I accept bugs will occur, will arise and will be fixed; its pretty annoying to have the same bugs repeated over and over and over.

'Hud' bug covers anything from no hud, to glitched nav bar, no IFF, no IFF while zoomed, no map, no moving map, no moving orientation cone, bugged reticules (still not fixed on the HBK 4P for being off centre as well). None of these are "new" they're just constantly re-occuring/ never fixed.

And those are just the persistent hud bugs. Additonal "content" such as mechs shouldn't impact these.

[Mazzyplz]

Ryvucz, on 02 April 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

Once they get the hang of things with the CRYengine, it should be smoother.

makes me wonder why on earth did they not pay crytek some kind of fee so that they can work as consultant whenever (read: every 15 days) something breaks. or they simply lack the knowledge of what some of the changes will actually DO.

my best guess?
they wanted to save that extra 15 bucks on insurance that you end up regretting when you scratch the rental vehicle and it bites you in the rear end!

[buttmonkey]

i decided to have a couple of weeks away from mwo, when i came back to the new patch i was pleased overall with the 2 patches since i have played last, but i have to say i will not be playing again today until i re install the game.

its amazing how often a re install will fix bugs! im not saying its a sure thing but i suggest you just try it, as i will. if it doesnt work well i guess il have to go back on mwo break until the next patch/hotfix

[l4Dl]

Buddahcjcc, on 03 April 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:

I thought the point of us BEING here in the BETA WAS to test for bugs.
What, we ARE here just to get a head start on the game?

If the programming was done correctly, conforming to cryengine's standards and functions, and better QA testing, we wouldnt have gamebreaking HUD bugs.
I wouldnt mind so much, but it seems PGi are more eager to make new hero mechs for money, instead of fixing bugs reported by the community.
This "HUD" issue has been around far too long, its starting to show a little bit of ignorance, or, lack of knowledge on PGi's part.

Beta should contain minor bugs like:
- balancing issues, gameplay statistics from matches.
- incorrect UV mapping, and, other skinmesh issues
- Psyxmesh design issues, per-map basis
- Performance testing,
- network consistency
- implementations of new functions/design features which must be tested on a wider scale, outside QA (eg: night/thermal)
- etc etc.

Maybe iam just old fashioned, but this feels a little bit more "alpha" to me. But thats what happens when people throw money at a game before its "stable".

[Training Instructor]

I think there's a talent gap between the coding teams at PGI.

The map team for instance, doesn't seem to make many mistakes. For a beta game, you would expect to find places where you can fall through the map, get stuck etc, but those bugs are few and far between. On the newer maps, there are almost zero places where you can get stuck or where terrain models glitch like they do on some of the older maps like frozen city.

The team that works on the interface though.....good god those guys need some serious help, or to be replaced.

[Fooooo]

Mazzyplz, on 03 April 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

makes me wonder why on earth did they not pay crytek some kind of fee so that they can work as consultant whenever (read: every 15 days) something breaks. or they simply lack the knowledge of what some of the changes will actually DO.

my best guess?
they wanted to save that extra 15 bucks on insurance that you end up regretting when you scratch the rental vehicle and it bites you in the rear end!

As part of their licence I'm pretty sure they already have access to that kind of resource. Read the terms on crytek site.

[l4Dl]

Training Instructor, on 03 April 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

I think there's a talent gap between the coding teams at PGI.

Couldnt of said it better myself.
Most of the code is written in lua. There are some references to C++, but, the core of this game uses lua scripts.

I'd love to see this game be re-written "better" in C++. It would increase performance, and, allow them to make clean, lower level code without the need for references to "nanosuit".

From what i've seen, they have 5million raised so far, i think its time to employ some C++ programmers and get the job done "correctly". This would also reduce alot of bug/performance issues in the future. Bite the tongue, realise what needs to be done to make a better game.

[jakucha]

I've been in a lot of open and closed betas, and when they're releasing bi-weekly patches this is what happens. More content but also more room for bugs. And compare it to Planetside 2, the game is out of beta and it still runs terribly for me when it shouldn't in terms of hardware, asi it does for a decent amount of others. Their patches mess the game up for people more than MWO's do that's for sure.

[Barnaby Jones]

The game stopped being Beta the moment they began charging money in earnest, IE the moment the last MC reset was complete.

Ever since then, it has been a poorly managed, poorly executed, full on game.

You don't charge beta testers to test your game (or its elements), just like you don't pay beta testers to test your game.

And let me preempt your cries of "The programmers gotta eat too" with the question of what happened to the 5Mil from founders? Did they use that to polish up the mechanics of the game, or to create new maps for us like River City Night, Forest Colony Snow, and Frozen City Night and claim they cost a quarter of a million to produce?

They are digging themselves into a hole they cannot climb out of. Every patch they introduce more issues than they fix, and all the while they are gouging as hard as they can... pretty soon there wont be anyone left willing to put up with the issues enough to open their wallet.

[Camzron]

Frederik Focht, on 02 April 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

And how is this related to the super-short testing and QC cycle of fortnightly patches? I hate this patch, I really do, because I tried jumping into a match 10 times and 9 out of 10 times, either the screen was black or the graphics were borked. But I do understand that PGI is a SMALL company and that they will need time to fix their ****.

FYI, all the money they are getting for the new HM is coming in now, not before THIS PATCH. So maybe with the new influx of funds, they can get more staff to make this game a better place for all of us.

That's one way to look at it.
PGI (Keep paying us or we'll continue breaking the game!)