23 replies to this topic

[repete]

Probably a:



...thread, however I dunno if I've seen this asked like this, or at least in a while. Prompted by the continued complaints about cap win/losses being "lame/Takei/etc.". How can the response be anything other than "Well protect your flippin base"?

People aren't complaining about Splatcats any more. No doubt they will find something to whine about...

So the question is, is there such a thing as cheese, or is anything legitimate with the single end goal being the 'victory' screen?

There is one thing which is a little stinky, but it doesn't smell quite so bad any more, so I won't mention it by name.

[The Cheese]

I disapprove of this thread.

[Hayashi]

"Takei"? You run with more interesting pilots than I get.

[p8ragon]

There is no cheese. However, certain...'builds' *cough cough splat cat cough cough dual ac/20 jag...if encountered in large numbers can get quite annoying

[One Medic Army]

At the moment I wouldn't say there's cheese, however seeing as there's been a pretty severe round of nerfs previously:
Anything that's currently balanced following being nerfbatted to the face may have been imbalanced previously.

[Noobzorz]

StarCraft 2 is polished to a mirror sheen and balanced down to the weight of a feather, and there is no debate as to whether or not cannon rushing is cheese or not. Since MWO is neither of those things, I say we just call a spade a spade.

Thar be limburger here.

[Budor]

Streaks. There i said it

[One Medic Army]

Budor, on 01 April 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

Streaks. There i said it

Honestly since the missile nerf they're not bad at all.
I tend not to mind them more than lasers on my Jenners.

[Royalewithcheese]

As far as I can tell, "cheese" usually means "something I don't have that was used to blow up my robot."

[Soulscour]

The Cheese, on 01 April 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

I disapprove of this thread.

It doesnt matter if you disapprove. According to this thread, you don't exist.

[Josef Nader]

The only thing I consider to be cheese, and only in a certain situation, is the ECM/Streak Synergy on light mechs. It is inordinately difficult to defeat a light mech pilot of roughly equal skill if they have ECM/Streak dominance. Even with the damage nerfs to Streaks, it's a sharply uphill battle and I don't feel that's right.

Again, it's the combination of the effectiveness of streaks in light on light combat (being the best weapon for dealing with fast movers) combined with the ability of ECM to protect against streak locks that is broken. The fix I've been suggesting for ages is making it so that you can't target lock while ECM is in disrupt mode. Once that synergy has been nerfed, I don't think there's any real cheese in the game. A few dull and frustrating, if effective tactics, but nothing unbeatable to the point of being broken.

[Commander Kobold]

no one complains about splatcats because missiles got neutered XD

[Duncan Fisher]

It's a computer game. If you're just playing to win, there is no cheese. Since every pilot is capable of bringing the same loadout as any other player (given enough playing time), bitching about what people bring is irrational.

[repete]

Hayashi, on 01 April 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

"Takei"? You run with more interesting pilots than I get.

It's ok to be Takei. Besides. What they really say gets censored.

[CrashieJ]

repete, on 01 April 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Prompted by the continued complaints about cap win/losses being "lame/Takei/etc.".

here you go...

Edited by gavilatius, 01 April 2013 - 09:51 PM.

[Josef Nader]

Duncan Fisher, on 01 April 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

It's a computer game. If you're just playing to win, there is no cheese. Since every pilot is capable of bringing the same loadout as any other player (given enough playing time), bitching about what people bring is irrational.

This is largely the attitude that makes me hate playing with other people. People suck. This kind of thinking leads to exceptionally stale gameplay and really, really boring matches as everyone tries to copycat the "best" builds to maximize their win potential.

As Penny Arcade puts it:



This is frustrating to players like me, who enjoy experimenting with mechanics and diversity in gameplay challenges. I know how to beat a splat cat a hundred different ways to Tuesday. I'd like to fight something that isn't a splat cat now, please.

However, that doesn't make them cheese. Just boring. Dull. Predictable.

[Teralitha]

What about the synergy between ecm and netcode? Put those 2 together and you still get cheese.


I havent played in awhile, but the last time I did play, I could tell the netcode was a bit wonky vs previous settings. How is it lately? It may change again tomorrow... I used to always notice a change in the netcode every other patch in regards to leading weapons/fire delay and what appeared to be partial damage or full damage caused by that.

[One Medic Army]

Teralitha, on 01 April 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

What about the synergy between ecm and netcode? Put those 2 together and you still get cheese.


I havent played in awhile, but the last time I did play, I could tell the netcode was a bit wonky vs previous settings. How is it lately? It may change again tomorrow... I used to always notice a change in the netcode every other patch in regards to leading weapons/fire delay and what appeared to be partial damage or full damage caused by that.

It's improved quite a bit, they've also implemented Host State Rewind (HSR) for lasers which means that if a laser hits something on your screen it hits that same thing on the server.
This has made it amazingly easier to deal pinpoint damage to light mechs, and for that matter all mechs.

[Hayashi]

Royalewithcheese, on 01 April 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

As far as I can tell, "cheese" usually means "something I don't have that was used to blow up my robot."

Nobody ever accuses my spider of being cheese when they get blown up by a single laser.

One Medic Army, on 01 April 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

It's improved quite a bit, they've also implemented Host State Rewind (HSR) for lasers which means that if a laser hits something on your screen it hits that same thing on the server. This has made it amazingly easier to deal pinpoint damage to light mechs, and for that matter all mechs.

Not entirely true for higher ping players. I still have to lead 1/2 mech lengths ahead to hit lights, and 1/4 length ahead to pinpoint components on mediums/heavies travelling 70-90 KPH.

That said, it's a LOT better than it used to be (4 mech lengths), but it's not completely fixed yet.

Edited by Hayashi, 02 April 2013 - 12:04 AM.

[Thoummim]

There is no cheese we're honorless freebirth scum anyway.

Every build have their weakness, the only problem is when you see 4+ 6ppc stalker(or any other "cheese") working together. Its amplify their strong point so much its nulify their disavantage.

But nothing that cant be beat with tactics. Tactics OP nerf tactics.