12 replies to this topic

[Mahws]

It's been a long, long time since I've run Single Heatsinks. Longer still since I've taken a trial mech out to play. I imagine the same is true for the vast majority of people here, we've all been playing for a while and by this point we simply know better.

So I'd like to remind us all just how utterly bad single heatsinks that new players use are.

Test run on Tourmaline. Exact same loadout (AC10/2ML/LRM10) on each mech, only difference is 10 SHS vs. 10 DHS.

Quote

Stock Cent-A (Current Trial Mech):

Idle Heat: 7%

Running Heat: 12%

Heat per Alpha: 36%

Time to cool: 51 Seconds.

DHS Cent-A:

Idle Heat: 6%

Running Heat: 10%

Heat per Alpha: 27%

Time to cool: 27 Seconds.

DHS can alpha five times before overheat, SHS three times. DHS cools down from 100 percent almost twice as fast as SHS.

I think that bears repeating in bigger letters. DHS GIVE YOU TWICE THE EFFECTIVE FIREPOWER OF A NEW PLAYER. Let that sink in for a moment. No cost. No disadvantage. No trade off. Just straight up double the heat cooldown. Remember how we all make fun of terribly balanced MMO free to plays were high level characters walk around kicking sand in the face of new players with a massive unfair disadvantage? Welcome to Mechwarrior Online, we may not be doing it on purpose, but that's what's happening.

And this is on a STD200 engine, so it's not even the full advantage that engine DHS automatically give over a single heatsink mech.

Imagine a new player, just getting in to the game after reading up on the mechanics on the forum and running around in the test area like a good little mechwarrior. You get in game, you square off against someone else with the same tonnage and weapon load out as you. You get your face beaten in because they can fire their weapons twice as often as you. Rinse, repeat. You uninstall.

Buffing in engine single heatsinks to 1.8 would still keep doubles the better choice for the vast majority of builds, but make trial mechs/stock mechs less massively handicapped and give some more options to experienced players in the mechlab, which is always a good thing.

TL;DR:

Single Heatsinks are a massive (almost half the firepower) handicap for new players that drive them away from the game and offer next to nothing to experienced players. Buffing in Engine SHS would be an effective way to make trial mechs actually work and would make SHS viable for some (but definitely not most) custom builds.

TL;DR 2:
Yes I know Double Heatsinks are twice as effective, no you're not being clever by posting 'double heatsinks are twice as good'. I'm pointing out just how much that wrecks the game experience for new players and how non-viable they are. And no the custom Dragon is not a 'fix', 3/4 of trial mechs and nearly all stock mechs still use singles.

Edited by Mahws, 03 April 2013 - 09:30 PM.

[Elizander]

Use the Custom Dragon Trial.

[ThinkTank]

Just think how fun it will be for them when they can start building their own mechs.

[Mahws]

Elizander, on 03 April 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

Use the Custom Dragon Trial.

Nice weather we're having today isn't it?

Oh wait, that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about either.

ThinkTank, on 03 April 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

Just think how fun it will be for them when they can start building their own mechs.

I have to pay an extra 1.5 million so my mech is remotely viable! Weeeeeeeee! This is so much fun!

I'm sure that'll keep them warm in the cold nights of grinding trials. You know, on the off chance that they even know what double heatsink are, or that they're an option.

Edited by Mahws, 03 April 2013 - 08:31 PM.

[Elizander]

Mahws, on 03 April 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

Nice weather we're having today isn't it?

Fairly cloudy with a high chance of rage? While I agree with you about Single Heat Sinks (I have my own post in Suggestions on boosting engine SHS for the sake of new players and trials) you seem to be more focused on being angry than talking about a topic that has already reached dead horse status.

The custom trial dragon is part of the solution for new players. It will probably never ever overheat and it has enough damage to kill via headshot in one alpha. My simple point was SHS buff is not here. SHS buff is not being discussed by PGI. Until such a time comes up, for now, new players can use the Community Trial Dragon and be just as upgraded as any custom mech in the field.

[OneEyed Jack]

Single heat sinks aren't broken. They do exactly what single heat sinks are supposed to do. What's to fix?

[jeffsw6]

PGI doesn't seem to understand the new player experience. It is horrible.

Please, please, just let new players choose ANY STOCK MECH they want for drops. There are a lot of choices.

I feel so bad when I kill someone in a DRG-5N(C).

What if me killing that guy makes him ALT-F4 and uninstall the game before he ever learns to play and gets into it?

[One Medic Army]

Amazing, you found out what everyone paying attention to the Devs and/or forums has known for months.
SHS suck, DHS are mandatory. DHS in the engine are 2x as good as SHS.

Now your complaints might have some value if the Devs hadn't already made a step in the right direction by letting us (the players) custom design one of the trial mechs this time around so that it's not hideously gimped like the stock designs.

TL/DR: welcome to 2-3 months ago.

[Roland]

Quote

DHS cools down from 100 percent almost TWICE AS FAST as SHS.

It's almost as though they have double the efficiency of single heat sinks.

[Mahws]

*Sigh*

Yes, everyone knows that double heatsinks are double. I'm pointing out how horribly that translates for the new player experience.

One Medic Army, on 03 April 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Now your complaints might have some value if the Devs hadn't already made a step in the right direction by letting us (the players) custom design one of the trial mechs this time around so that it's not hideously gimped like the stock designs.

TL/DR: welcome to 2-3 months ago.

That's a bandaid, not a solution. Even if we get rid of all stock mechs in trial so new players aren't given such a massive disadvantage we still have the problem of slapping an extra 1.5 mil on every mech in game. New players will still buy their first mech and get confused as to why it overheats faster than microwave popcorn.

Elizander, on 03 April 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

Fairly cloudy with a high chance of rage? While I agree with you about Single Heat Sinks (I have my own post in Suggestions on boosting engine SHS for the sake of new players and trials) you seem to be more focused on being angry than talking about a topic that has already reached dead horse status.

The custom trial dragon is part of the solution for new players. It will probably never ever overheat and it has enough damage to kill via headshot in one alpha. My simple point was SHS buff is not here. SHS buff is not being discussed by PGI. Until such a time comes up, for now, new players can use the Community Trial Dragon and be just as upgraded as any custom mech in the field.

If you're going to get your feelings hurt when people dismiss your comments you might want to try writing more than a single semi-related sentence.

It's not a solution, it's a poorly thought out band-aid. 3/4 of the trial mechs are still horribly underpowered simply because they use single heatsinks. Every stock mech is still horribly underpowered because they use single heatsinks.

The best you can say for the custom Dragon is that it's teaching new players that the game is horribly balanced because only one of the four mechs they can play is halfway functional.

[I am]

Mahws, on 03 April 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

Single Heatsinks are a massive (almost half the firepower) handicap for new players that drive them away from the game and offer next to nothing to experienced players. Buffing in Engine SHS would be an effective way to make trial mechs actually work and would make SHS viable for some (but definitely not most) custom builds.

Or, how about addressing ALL the balance issues, to the degree that the game attains actual "balance". Your simply pointing out 1 drop of imbalance, in an ocean of balance issues which drive players away, does little to address the heart of the issue.

Appreciate you sticking up for the little guy though.

[Profiteer]

The new player experience for MWO is like going to prison.

You're alone with no idea what's going on, you get bullied and beat up the whole time, and just want to leave.


It's mostly hardcore mech fans that stick it out past the first month.

A big part of the reason is the TERRIBLE trial mechs. They should at least have double heatsinks.

[I am]

Quit trying to say its one thing, or its another. Its alot of things, and the collective sum of the gaming experience they create.