10 replies to this topic

[Malyshus]

Hi guys, I've been reading the forums for a bit looking for some general advice but I haven't really found anything that condenses the items I am looking for to a general Pros vs. Cons format. So I will attempt to gain some insight through your experiences and knowledge about the different options while customizing my mechs.

I started this thread because I have purchased 2 different mechs and found myself running into a situation where I have 2 different mech chassis that provide no additional versatility in battlefield function (they are essentially just a different look to the same function & firepower)

So my main question is what have you found the most useful combination of weight saving upgrades for your mech? Double Heatsinks, Endosteel, XL engines, any combination of the above and why?

I ask because I don't want to waste another 5-10 (or 50-100 matches worth) Mil buying a chassis only to run into an issue where it ends up being marginally different than my currently owned mechs and have to play another 100 matches before I can even think about buying a new mech, but the amount of C-bills earned per match vs. cost of parts/mechs shall be for another discussion.

Looking forward to having some knowledge dropped on me so please let's hear it.

[Leiska]

You should always get DHS on every chassis. As far as the other upgrades go, it depends on what you want to build. They generally exchange space for tonnage. Endo is strictly better than Ferro.

Edited by Leiska, 02 April 2013 - 05:18 PM.

[Sheraf]

I find that the stock load out of mech is nice, such as the one on Stalker, just put DHS in it

[ShadowbaneX]

Malyshus, on 02 April 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

Hi guys, I've been reading the forums for a bit looking for some general advice but I haven't really found anything that condenses the items I am looking for to a general Pros vs. Cons format. So I will attempt to gain some insight through your experiences and knowledge about the different options while customizing my mechs.

I started this thread because I have purchased 2 different mechs and found myself running into a situation where I have 2 different mech chassis that provide no additional versatility in battlefield function (they are essentially just a different look to the same function & firepower)

So my main question is what have you found the most useful combination of weight saving upgrades for your mech? Double Heatsinks, Endosteel, XL engines, any combination of the above and why?

I ask because I don't want to waste another 5-10 (or 50-100 matches worth) Mil buying a chassis only to run into an issue where it ends up being marginally different than my currently owned mechs and have to play another 100 matches before I can even think about buying a new mech, but the amount of C-bills earned per match vs. cost of parts/mechs shall be for another discussion.

Looking forward to having some knowledge dropped on me so please let's hear it.

Probably the most important piece of advice I can give is Smurfy. It's a pretty good mech lab simulator that will let you play with load-outs to your heart's content.

After that, XL's. Situationally dependant, but general rule is that they're usually more beneficial in Lights and Mediums than Heavies and Assaults.

Endo-Steel will get you 1 ton (for a Commando) to 5 tons (for an Atlas).

Ferro-Fibrous will get you less than Endo-Steel...it's really more more useful when you've got max or nearly max armour.

I think in most Mechs that have a 250 engine or greater Double Heat Sinks will net you the most tonnage. I can really only think of one or two builds that doesn't benefit from Double Heat Sinks. For instance, if you've got 14 single heat sinks and switch to doubles the ten heat sinks in the engine will give be the same as 14 single heat sinks saving you 4 tons...if your engine is 250 or larger that is.

As for which is more efficient, well, it's situational. The bigger the mech usually the fewer weight saving measures needed. There are some builds that I'll only take DHSs on. Then again I've got an LRM CAT which uses DHS, Endo-Steel & Ferro-Fibrous. Use the Mechlab tool, play with things and see what works best.

[Zphyr]

With lower rating engines it may not be a good idea to use DHS, specially if you want to use ES or artemis. Depending on the weapons, you may run out of slots. So SHS may be a good choice if you don't have that much cbills or slots to play around with. And if you have enough weight to add HS, just do the math: sometimes more SHS works better than less DHS due to lack of viable slots. Also, HS in general are good critcs filters, percentage-wise... better losing a HS than losing a weapon or, worse, exploding ammo, right?

Between ES and FF, go with ES.

[Malyshus]

I appreciate the advice guys, especially the link to Smurfy's. I will check it out.

[Tezzereth]

What mechs were you looking at to purchase or what sort of role of a mech have you been looking at?

[Giant Bob]

I have all the spiffs Cbills can buy, and my suggestion is experiment until you settle in. Generally, Streaks are my favorite general purpose close-in defense. Unfortunately lasers are also necessary, but if you're not over-heating in combat go back and dump heat sinks so you can add ammo, armor, etc.

GL

edit: always be prepared to dump what isn't contributing to your goals of destruction and survival. just dump it, don't even look back. that includes engines, if you ever need it, it will still be there.

Edited by Giant Bob, 03 April 2013 - 07:51 PM.

[Koniving]

I agree. Experimentation is important. Try everything, including the stuff people knock. You never know when you'll have something that works. Personally I've found I love flamers. Not for damage, but because of how it can blind my enemies while I pelt them with heavy firepower.

Victims have said it is "Annoying" "Terrifying" "Can't see!" "Can't get away" "Disorienting" and so many more.

[Giant Bob]

Koniving, on 03 April 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

... Victims have said it is "Annoying" "Terrifying" "Can't see!" "Can't get away" "Disorienting" and so many more.

Flamer un-nerves, and distracts from other threats. You'd better be a fast mover, though.

[Hayashi]

While this has to be a gross oversimplification by definition, these are general guides to building powerful mechs.

• Always mount ECM if the variant allows it.
  
• Max out armor tonnage in every location except legs and any arms that don't have weapons. If running a STD engine, Side Torsos that carry nothing can also have armour cuts.
  
• Always use DHS as long as you have anything other than Gauss Rifles installed. No exceptions.
  
• Always install Endo as far as possible.
  
• For light mechs and Cicadas always get the most powerful XL engine available. For Dragons and Catapults always get an XL, size depends on what you need. Never place an XL in an Assault or Hunchback. For the other chassis it's up to you.
  
• Endo + XL + Ferro + DHS is usually impossible. When you can't decide, always forgo Ferro, it's the most useless of the lot.
  
• AMS is pointless in anything that can go faster than 110 KPH.
  
• Machine Guns and Flamers are always pointless - and Machine Guns are the worse of the two as their ammo can explode.
  
• Hide ammo in legs/cockpit/CT as far as possible to save CASE tonnage. They rarely explode and if they do, you'd have died anyway within another shot even if there wasn't ammo there.
  
• Gauss rifles can explode. Gauss ammo is the only ammo that doesn't explode.
  
• DHS cools 2x in the engine and 1.4x outside. Mount as many DHS in the engine as possible first before putting them elsewhere.
  
• DHS, ECM and Gauss ammo can be used to pad crits to reduce the chance that critical components blow up. Always mount as many DHS as you can in Side Torsos with XLs after the engine slots have already been maxed.
  
• Energy and Missile hardpoints are strictly more tonnage-efficient for raw firepower than Ballistics, whereas Ballistics strictly do more alpha pinpoint damage. In lighter chassis, always max out every single energy hardpoint first, followed by as many missile hardpoints as you can. If the only thing you have space for in a ballistics hardpoint is machine guns, leave the hardpoints EMPTY.
  
• If you have ECM, boat Streaks in every missile hardpoint.
  
• Load at least one jump jet as far as possible in every chassis that can mount jump jets. It reduces your turn radius to 20-30% the non-JJ values if you tap spacebar while turning.

From these, you can tell the things in the game that are the most overpowered. Basically, ECM, DHS, Endo, Speed, boated lasers, Streaks and Jump Jets. And the things that are the most underpowered - AMS, Machine Guns, Flamers and Ferro armour. The strongest builds combine all of the OP elements in a single loadout - of which the RVN-3L has 6/7 (except Jump Jets), and the JR7-D has 6/7 (except ECM). This makes the RVN-3L the most overpowered loadout of all, and the JR7-D a close second [originally PGI wanted to put ECM on the JR7-D, but we managed to stop them]. We refer to these as 'cheese builds'. The most underpowered builds combine all the UP elements in a single loadout - generally, no jump jets, boated machine guns with a flamer, FF armour and a standard engine, with AMS and without Jump Jets - we refer to these as 'joke builds', among which the weakest build imaginable that has maxed tonnage is a SDR-5K with 4 Machine Guns, a Flamer, AMS, STD, FF, no Jump Jets and single heat sinks.

If you want a challenge, use the joke builds. If you are new or want to win more often, use the cheese builds. Everything in between will have difficulty in between.

Your skill in piloting also affects the viability of builds greatly. However, a good pilot with a cheese mech will always do better than the same pilot in a joke build. Also, pilots capable of using very lousy chassis (COM-3A, SDR-5K, RVN-4X) to even average effect will be nearly unkillable in very powerful loadouts (RVN-3L, dual AC/20 builds, Large Laser/Streak STK boats, HBK Swayback MLaser boats etc etc).

Edited by Hayashi, 03 April 2013 - 08:43 PM.