86 replies to this topic

[Arcticfox9]

Kataris, on 08 April 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

I don't expect it to be bug free, I just expect to see progress of bugs getting fixed over time. So far none of that, the frequency and number of bugs are increasing.

I agree with this totally. Things are supposed to get progressively better. A proper SDLC (conventional or agile) would produce a product that has fewer bugs with each iteration. If a build was found to have new bugs, it would not have been released into the Production environment. The new bugs would have been addressed in QA and Staging environments further.

This is an operational discipline problem. The build that was released on April 2nd, should have never have been deployed.

Edited by Arcticfox9, 09 April 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Texas Merc, on 09 April 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Im coming for you on Monday RB so you better be at MMM (even my crap fps post patch wont stop me ) I will try and coax agent to show as well

I'll be there... good times.

[Stoicblitzer]

The release before this one was almost 100% stable for me. I would get random crashes but nothing consistent. I tried to play yesterday to capitalize on the 50% c-bill boost. I had hud bugs I have never seen before. I had one where the throttle shot vertically across my screen, one where the name of the mech I was piloting on the bottom left was instead numbers that varied as I rotated my torso, one where the heat scale said 0% even as it was maxed out, the common no-map bug, the common north-facing bug. Then I had various combinations of these bugs.

I rarely, if ever, had any hud bugs before this most recent patch. I used to get the goldvision and no-hud bugs but that was fixed several months ago. I also teleport, rubberband, and when I push a button it doesn't register or lags. My ping during primetime is around 70 ms and during mid-afternoon it's 50 ms. they should be embarrassed. I sense no empathy or mea culpa from PGI. They just unleashed this patch then gave us some story about hotfixes. why was it "stable" before and now it's crap?

Edited by Stoicblitzer, 09 April 2013 - 03:56 PM.

[SpiralRazor]

Kataris, on 03 April 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

The latest patch has been a complete failure. When will we start making progress on the bugs that are plaguing this client? I have completely changed all hardware components on my PC and am still suffering from random client crashes. I still experience HUD issues 20% of my drops including mini-map errors that have persisted for over 8 months now. What in the world is going on with damage registration on rear shots? We keep taking one step forward, two steps back. I know a lot of focus has been put on generating content, but surely I am not the only one tired of forced to drop the new Tourmaline Desert map every other drop. Over half my time since stats started being recorded has been in that map. It gets very repetitive and dull.

I have little desire to play outside of preparation for the RHOD tournament that attempts to overcome the hurdles set forth by the development team to curtail community involvement. Scoring assists higher than kills and hosting tournaments that score games played higher than combat performance continues to puzzle me. I can only assume that PGI has a demoralizing work environment as I see zero passion going into this product. When I play games like Path of Exile it is like being able to breathe again when the development team actually tackles the bugs and further polishes the product each patch. Let's hope some of the future changes address these issues as my teammates and I are most discouraged at the current state of the game.

I was in the PoE beta as well...and let me tell you all that GGG is ******* I N G light years ahead of PGI in terms of development and business structure...Mostly because they didnt waste years trying to reinvent the wheel.

[MischiefSC]

Snailio, on 09 April 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

Do you play in 8 mans? The reason I ask is because the 8 man drops, for whatever reason, seem to be vastly worse in the appearance of bugs. Even the guys I play with confirm that they don't have nearly as many problems when they aren't in the 8 man queue. As soon as we enter the 8 man queue you can bet your house on at least 2 of our 8 guys having problems. This has been the case since the most recent patch. Of course, before that, we experienced bugs, but nowhere near the frequency as post patch.

In regards to your graphics question.. While MWO is built upon Cryengine3, it is in no way close to the visual pleasing graphics of some of those other games you listed. MWO has no DX11 (beauty), and no Crossfire/SLI (power) support in this game. Regardless, I have played Path of Exile for over 12 hours stable, and it only went to open beta in February (several months after MWO). Furthermore I have had zero UI bugs, "HUD" bugs, or CTDs in Path of Exile. The stability shown in that game is utterly impressive. The amount of bugs in MWO compared to PoE, on the other hand, is mind blowing and frustrating after experiencing a beta like PoE. When you take into consideration the amount of content PoE has compared to MWO, it is even more shocking. If you have not played PoE, it can get quite intensive regarding graphics when you have six players with AoE spells fighting tons of mobs.

PoE is a top down 3rd person isometric view game with a fraction of the detail demands of a game like MWO, Skyrim, Dishonored or something along that same scale. Same with Torchlight 2 - can they be pretty in that regard? Absolutely. Comparing it to a 1st person sim style game is disingenuous though.

I think the issue with 8mans is that you're going to have 2 or 3 people per game with some sort of visual bug now, especially if any of them are using film grain removal, SweetFX or for all we know particular settings in user.cfg. Far more likely IMO with people who play in 8mans than with the general player population.

At this point though you've had an increase in hud bugs and for a tiny sliver of the population crashes for 1 week. Fortunately I checked the news today and civilization hasn't collapsed and many people still seem to be playing the game. It'll get fixed and 2 weeks from now people will be complaining about something else.

Is your concern that it'll never get fixed? That it'll take months? I admit part of my frustration with the entire issue isn't that people are complaining - there's legit issues to complain about. It's the approach that every may as well just pack up and go home, it's been 7 days without a wand-waving solution clearly nobody cares and everything will be exactly like this forever.

Maybe I'm just too jaded. This isn't my first beta game and won't be my last. At the moment I'm setting it aside while I wait for the Highlander but I'll be back, no question.

[N0MAD]

MischiefSC, on 08 April 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

As to 6 hours solid without stability issues, what game released in the last 24 months that's a heavy graphics intensive game have you been playing? Last 3 years? 5? Crysis? Crysis 2? Crysis 3? Skyrim? Any of the Battlefield series? Witcher 2? Come on, throw me a bone here. Give me an example of a graphics-heavy game released even vaguely recently that runs consistently for everyone for 6 hours or more without a crash or graphics issue from time to time. I'd love to look at their forums, it's probably the envy of the internet. Because every game I've played in the last half decade has a forum full of people talking about crashing, freezing, glitching and graphics issues.

You get everyone to run the same brand of graphics card, the same family of drivers, or how about just get everyone into 64 bit operating systems and we can have a reasonable conversation about the expectations of software product stability.



Like what? I'm curious as to what games I've been missing. Something this graphics heavy. I don't have issues with Torchlight 2 but I wouldn't say it's quite in the same spectrum for visuals.

What games? War Thunder-Beta, no graphics glitches no mater how long I play much beter graphics and I daresay more graphics intensive plus twice the team size and far faster gameplay (400 to 600+kph vehicles), should I mention the size and complexity of the maps the amount of buildings and vehicles/ships? Arma- Alpha, read above, Cant cite any others as they are the only two ive been playing since not patching MWO couple weeks ago.

[Snailio]

Will keep a running tally of tonights 8 man practice:

Drop 1: 3 Crash to desktop, 1 hud bug

Drop 2-6: 4 Crash to desktop, 6 assorted hud bugs, 2 graphical glitches...

that is 16 issues in 6 matches

Edited by Snailio, 09 April 2013 - 06:09 PM.

[MischiefSC]

N0MAD, on 09 April 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

What games? War Thunder-Beta, no graphics glitches no mater how long I play much beter graphics and I daresay more graphics intensive plus twice the team size and far faster gameplay (400 to 600+kph vehicles), should I mention the size and complexity of the maps the amount of buildings and vehicles/ships? Arma- Alpha, read above, Cant cite any others as they are the only two ive been playing since not patching MWO couple weeks ago.

War Thunder actually looks pretty amazing, I just might download it. I did google 'war thunder beta crashes' and got a list of links to people with graphics bugs getting crashes though. You aren't getting them in that game? Awesome, I'm only getting them once in a blue moon in MWO now. Anecdotal both ways.

ARMA 3. I love the ARMA series with a deep and abiding passion and have nothing but amazing things to say about all three games and their respective DLCs. I've already had a few crashes with ARMA 3 and have spent plenty of quality time dealing with some excellent support folks trying to get my DLC from Sprocket before. Plenty of technical issues with ARMA 2 and a handful with 3 but it's an alpha and that's to be expected.

Not sure what we're debating here though. Is your position that since both those games at this moment have minimal technical issues for being in alpha/beta that it'll just always be so? I'm also curious about both games - are you expecting weekly full patch updates from both games? That's a pretty hardcore schedule.

[N0MAD]

First, I do apologies for the lack of paragraphs (as someone mentioned in a previous post) I cant for the life of me drop a line/paragraph by hitting the Enter key. I was simply giving you the examples you asked for in your post. What do I expect from those games? (WT/Arma) nothing as nothing has been promised, well I expect great things from ARMA as like yourself im a big fan and their previous games have fulfilled all expectations from me....Edited because the rest was of topic rant.

Edited by N0MAD, 09 April 2013 - 06:04 PM.

[Delas Ting Usee]

I guess what's really disappointing is that...this game was near bug free (despite the balance issues i.e. LRMs doing super stupid damage) before the April 2nd patch and the April 5th hotfix.

Since the first week of December 2012 this game; on my system, had less than FOUR instances of bugs affecting me in total.

Let me clarify that again because it bears repeating - in almost four months I only EVER had 4 occurances of bugs.

To those defending PGI - I get it. I get why you're doing it. It's a great game. I've bought tons of MC in support of it. I see the potential and I can't wait until CW is launched.

Now attempt to gauge my level of frustration at having played this game prior to April 2nd and now...

I know its 'Beta'. But aren't problems supposed to be identified and fixed in a 'Beta'? So how does a company make so many advances forward and then takes MORE steps back then they did forward.

But the worse...the worse is that PGI doesn't seem to make this a piority/issue. I don't thnk they've realize the social impact it has. Many of us downloaded voip so we could connect and mech with each other and friends. Now when I logged on they're all gone...over a dozen of them...gone...friends I made in the past three months the world over, friends I've talked to, laughed with are just simply gone...that's what's really sad.

[Texas Merc]

I honestly think that there just isn't any accountability within this company, and that's a problem.

[Eshayz Lad]

Texas Merc, on 09 April 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

I honestly think that there just isn't any accountability within this company, and that's a problem.

They remind me of why EA is voted by Consumerism as worst company in America..

Except EA used to make good games before they changed into what they are, PGI hasn't even made one good game thats scored over 60% in reviews to date yet..

(you can't count this one as good or bad, as it's a BETA ™ lol~.)

look at their wiki, it's their first PC game ever, that's why they are making a crapload of mistakes.

Many of us love playing it because it's Mechwarrior, but, it's a real shame coz if a good PC dev company had picked this up we wouldn't be playing F2P World of Mechs and something more like a MW:LL with a super level of polish.

I would bet $50 they will never work on DX11, flop the PC version then port it to XBOX or consoles, and make one more grab for cash, and not have to deal with all the angry PCers.

[N0MAD]

Right now the Best thing PGI can do is step back.....admit that they are far behind in their plans....TRY to fix current bugs and stop updating the game as per say...Introduce a matchmaking lobby and say here you go guys the tool is there for you to start 3rd Party leagues, knock yourself out till we have the game back on track and viable to play....Their cosmetic team that gives us Camos, colors and the useless cockpit items can keep introducing them for income, their map making team can deliver a map every month (don't give me this crap about 7 people taking 3 months for a map) and their Mech designers can keep pumping out the mechs and Hero mech for income every month. Their main Coding team can then work at the game unhindered until they have a viable product and all would be good.

[ninjitsu]

Just did an 8 man, 5 of the 8 members were bugged.... Something is wrong with the game.

[Stoicblitzer]

i dropped with a member of the pgi staff earlier. he had a hispanic name which may just be one of their incognito accounts as i've never heard of the guy before. i said "are you pgi staff?" he said "yes pgi cleaning staff". are they making racist troll accounts now? i could tell it was pgi because his founder symbol was the pgi logo and it said PGI underneath instead of LNW, DAV, etc. it ended up being 6v7 with the 7 team having a disconnect so 6v6. someone was like "wtf 6v6?" i said "working as intended" and the pgi guy said "jab noted." he was on my team, died, and then disconnected. i was like "wtf just happened?" we ended up losing.

Edited by Stoicblitzer, 09 April 2013 - 09:17 PM.

[Delas Ting Usee]

Stoicblitzer, on 09 April 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

i dropped with a member of the pgi staff earlier. he had a hispanic name which may just be one of their incognito accounts as i've never heard of the guy before. i said "are you pgi staff?" he said "yes pgi cleaning staff". are they making racist troll accounts now? i could tell it was pgi because his founder symbol was the pgi logo and it said PGI underneath instead of LNW, DAV, etc. it ended up being 6v7 with the 7 team having a disconnect so 6v6. someone was like "wtf 6v6?" i said "working as intended" and the pgi guy said "jab noted." he was on my team, died, and then disconnected. i was like "wtf just happened?" we ended up losing.

Well...no wonder they have bugs...even their cleaning staff isn't working as intended.

[Stoicblitzer]

Delas Ting Usee, on 09 April 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

Well...no wonder they have bugs...even their cleaning staff isn't working as intended.

hahaha

[Snailio]

MischiefSC, on 09 April 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

PoE is a top down 3rd person isometric view game with a fraction of the detail demands of a game like MWO, Skyrim, Dishonored or something along that same scale. Same with Torchlight 2 - can they be pretty in that regard? Absolutely. Comparing it to a 1st person sim style game is disingenuous though.

I think the issue with 8mans is that you're going to have 2 or 3 people per game with some sort of visual bug now, especially if any of them are using film grain removal, SweetFX or for all we know particular settings in user.cfg. Far more likely IMO with people who play in 8mans than with the general player population.

At this point though you've had an increase in hud bugs and for a tiny sliver of the population crashes for 1 week. Fortunately I checked the news today and civilization hasn't collapsed and many people still seem to be playing the game. It'll get fixed and 2 weeks from now people will be complaining about something else.

Is your concern that it'll never get fixed? That it'll take months? I admit part of my frustration with the entire issue isn't that people are complaining - there's legit issues to complain about. It's the approach that every may as well just pack up and go home, it's been 7 days without a wand-waving solution clearly nobody cares and everything will be exactly like this forever.

Maybe I'm just too jaded. This isn't my first beta game and won't be my last. At the moment I'm setting it aside while I wait for the Highlander but I'll be back, no question.

It's been 7 days without a wand waving solution? These bugs and issues did not simply appear 7 days ago, they have been prevalent for as long as the game has been in beta. Seven days ago, technically 9 days ago now, those bugs that have been in existence since the beginning of the beta seemingly got exponentially worse in frequency. To imitate that there hasn't been a solution in 7 days is failing to consider the months upon months prior to the past 7 days that those same bugs have not been fixed. The failure to fix these gamebreaking problems, while they seemingly get more prevalent, absolutely is cause for grave concern. To fail to realize that is quite naive.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

eta....


3050 fur realz.....

[Kataris]

Arcticfox9, on 09 April 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

I agree with this totally. Things are supposed to get progressively better. A proper SDLC (conventional or agile) would produce a product that has fewer bugs with each iteration. If a build was found to have new bugs, it would not have been released into the Production environment. The new bugs would have been addressed in QA and Staging environments further.

This is an operational discipline problem. The build that was released on April 2nd, should have never have been deployed.

It is especially disconcerting to see a bug or two get resolved, then four months later emerge again. I'm thinking a stable build is at least 4 weeks out assuming a miraculous hotfix is possible.

Edited by Kataris, 11 April 2013 - 09:18 AM.