48 replies to this topic

[Draxern]

PANZERBUNNY, on 03 June 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

If conquest mode is something that isn't a priority for the team I'd like to hear the truth and not keep hoping that something more substantial makes an appearence at launch of down the road.

I aggree with this and feel if system is not ready. Then should be placed on back burner to be released later. Until then just be team death match system. Releasing a half assed exploit filled system would create more harm then good.

[StarColonelBicen]

I'd like to see some different Bonuses to controlling certain territories. for holding world A you get a 10% discount to certain weapons when purchased, or planet B grants you a 2% armor buff due to armor factories. ect ect. Gives an Incentive to capturing and controlling certain world. just some ideas, but definitely worth considering and looking into.

Edited by StarColonelBicen, 03 June 2012 - 07:30 PM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

I like the discounts, but not the buffs.

Discounts to weapon/mech/repair bills would be nice, but buffs sound too gamey....

[Roland]

Orzorn, on 03 June 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

As it says, Faction Worlds are fought over by Faction players, and it makes no mention of mercs fighting over them.

It says this, below:

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As a Mercenary Corporation, all members’ earned loyalty points go to the Merc Corp. The Merc Corp must have a minimum amount of loyalty points with a faction before they are able to engage in planetary combat on behalf of that faction. Loyalty points also determine the type and level of contract a Merc Corp is permitted to bid on. These loyalty point restrictions mean that a Merc Corp’s membership, must remain active in order to maintain the required level of LPs.

So there definitely appears to be some notion of mercs taking jobs for the major houses... Although I'm not sure how exactly they are to earn loyalty points with the house, if they aren't able to engage in planetary combat on behalf of the house.



To address another point:

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You know my issue with the information given so far? We know that merc corps will bid for the right to attack a planet. That's fine, dandy, and understandable... but what about defending the planet? When the bid is won, what happens? How and who does the game pull in to defend the planet? Do you defend planets you've captured yourself, and if so, what if you aren't online when the bid is won and the enemy is prepared to attack?

This is exactly what I was thinking.

Armored Core V illustrated the potential problem with having small groups owning territory.... Namely, that you'd want to fight for some planet/region/etc... but the folks who own it aren't home, because there are only maybe 12 of them, and they aren't always on 24/7 with enough guys to field a lance.

Back in the day, we'd schedule planetary assaults for a particular time, and then meet up with the other team at that time... But I'm not sure how exactly they are planning to pull this off here.

My own unit, for instance, is fairly small... Will likely grow now that we have another mechwarrior game to play, but we've always been very selective about who we let in. I don't see us letting in thousands of players, which seems to be what it would take to guarantee that we'd always have someone available to defend our planets.

So, having random folks get pulled in to defend us kind of sucks, because.. well, who knows if they're just garbage? Likewise, forcing an attack force to wait until we are ready to defend seems to suck even MORE for them, because as I said.. I've seen what that is like in Armored Core V... A great game, but if you actually want to try and take a territory from an enemy unit? Good luck actually getting the fight. Most likely you end up sitting in a lobby forever just waiting for them to feel like defending it.

[Orzorn]

Roland, on 03 June 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

So, having random folks get pulled in to defend us kind of sucks, because.. well, who knows if they're just garbage? Likewise, forcing an attack force to wait until we are ready to defend seems to suck even MORE for them, because as I said.. I've seen what that is like in Armored Core V... A great game, but if you actually want to try and take a territory from an enemy unit? Good luck actually getting the fight. Most likely you end up sitting in a lobby forever just waiting for them to feel like defending it.

Indeed, and the only solution I can really come up in my head is this:
After a merc corp captures a planet, the planet enters retainer-ship under the faction that gave out the contract. Your corp is, of course, given bonuses for having that planet. However, when time comes to defend the planet, if you don't react within a few minutes of the challenge, then the retainer faction must defend it. Because factions will no doubt have tens of thousands of players then there should be only a small waiting time for the challengers.

[Roland]

Orzorn, on 03 June 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

Indeed, and the only solution I can really come up in my head is this:
After a merc corp captures a planet, the planet enters retainer-ship under the faction that gave out the contract. Your corp is, of course, given bonuses for having that planet. However, when time comes to defend the planet, if you don't react within a few minutes of the challenge, then the retainer faction must defend it. Because factions will no doubt have tens of thousands of players then there should be only a small waiting time for the challengers.

Hmm... That's not a bad idea.

Another idea that I think may supplement it, would be to allow Merc corps to form alliances with each other. So, if your team isn't available to defend a planet, it would first fall to your allied units. That would give you some control over who defended your stuff when you weren't there.

It'd also allow for the formation of larger groups capable of engaging more in the types of galactic conflict we'd expect to see, without necessarily having to give up their own identity as a team.

[Orzorn]

Roland, on 03 June 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Hmm... That's not a bad idea.

Another idea that I think may supplement it, would be to allow Merc corps to form alliances with each other. So, if your team isn't available to defend a planet, it would first fall to your allied units. That would give you some control over who defended your stuff when you weren't there.

It'd also allow for the formation of larger groups capable of engaging more in the types of galactic conflict we'd expect to see, without necessarily having to give up their own identity as a team.

I would love to see the ability for mercs to form alliances within the game.

[Draxern]

Merc corp could have the option of hireing another merc corp to defend their world or pay a retainer to a house for the defense. Failure to organize this could result in your planet being captured while your off completeing a contract.

Still i feel merc corps should mostly be occupied with taking contacts for houses in order to turn a profit and less with control of planets until they have developed and reached the rank to do so.

Brings up another question how should travel work... If merc corp owns a planets on the other side of the universe from the contract they are completeing can they instant travel back.

I hope not.

[Orzorn]

Draxern, on 03 June 2012 - 08:23 PM, said:

Merc corp could have the option of hireing another merc corp to defend their world or pay a retainer to a house for the defense. Failure to organize this could result in your planet being captured while your off completeing a contract.

Still i feel merc corps should mostly be occupied with taking contacts for houses in order to turn a profit and less with control of planets until they have developed and reached the rank to do so.

Brings up another question how should travel work... If merc corp owns a planets on the other side of the universe from the contract they are completeing can they instant travel back.

I hope not.

For the purposes of ease of play, I have no doubt that travel will not exist. It will all be instant.

[Draxern]

Travel could add another element if is only one global map.

[Hardac]

Orzorn, on 03 June 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

They mentioned in an interview that, currently, it only takes one battle to conquer a planet. However, they are considering solutions to allow multiple battles to occur for control.

I hope they consider a deeper system than that. It sounds really shallow.

I could see an organized force sweeping through enemy space and taking control in a matter of days. Really bad idea. Planetary conquests should mean something. This current system sounds more akin to a Clan trial.

[Adrienne Vorton]

Hardac, on 03 June 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

I hope they consider a deeper system than that. It sounds really shallow.

I could see an organized force sweeping through enemy space and taking control in a matter of days. Really bad idea. Planetary conquests should mean something. This current system sounds more akin to a Clan trial.

yea sounds to me like ending up just as in heroes in the sky, where just the mass of players decided the winning faction... i´m more for the idea to take a good bit of WW2 online (see in one post on page 1 this thread) where you could start a limited amount of attacks in each attack/defense cycle... but maybe this "currently, it only takes one battle to conquer a planet" just means "right now, for testing" and in the final game it will be different...

[Ian]

I guess the big question is, does every single battle that every single player participates in count as part of the meta-game. Or is the meta game going to allow one battle per day over a given piece of terrain.

I'd like to see something on the order of. Each house/merc unit gets a company marker for each 12 members it has or fraction there of. It can move its company banners from one location on a planet to another location on a planet once per day. Or to another planet within one jump. House members can control one company once they reach captain, three at major and nine at colonel. Merc companies are moved by the commander of said company. Merc companies and house 'units' (clans within houses) can only control areas that are adjacent to each other. Each planet has between 6 (small unimportant border world) and 48 (large more important world) locations. You must control them all to control the planet, or perhaps just the capitol. Each planet is set within a different timeframe for battles disributed at the same as server load, so a few are middle of the night but most are prime time. The battles for that day are fought within that timeframe. Mercs obviously have to fight their own battles(with lone wolves if needed, but anyone from a house or lone wolves can drop into house fights to fill slots. However house 'units' fill their own battles first then other house mechwarriors then lone wolves.

This gives you multiple battles per planet. It doesn't let large swaths of planet change hands overnight without tons of people being involved. The downside is that large numbers of battles will just be random battles (or objective raids that maybe have other effects depending on which faction has had the most succesful raids in the past 24 hours....).

It makes the Meta Game sorta like a risk game (where every piece is one army rather than huge stacks). It gives everyone a chance to throw in on battles that matter. It lets even small Merc Units have a chance at a planet ( as they don't need tons of active players they can fill empty companies with lone wolves).

This is just a rough outline. But with some fleshing out I think it could work well.

[Carl Wrede]

If you had read all the posts here you would know that the one battle for control is just for the mercs.

The most likely system for mercs would be to allow one battle per day per Borderworld set at a specific time to give both merc companies (attacker and defender) a chance to get organised for the battle.

For the Factionworlds it will be some kind of mass system (like most victories in a given time) that gives the victory and control of the planet.

[MaddMaxx]

Carl Wrede, on 04 June 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

If you had read all the posts here you would know that the one battle for control is just for the mercs.

Please post a Link to the Dev Blog stating this as fact. Otherwise it is simply more mere speculation.

Quote

The most likely system for mercs would be to allow one battle per day per Borderworld set at a specific time to give both merc companies (attacker and defender) a chance to get organised for the battle.

Again, the use of the term "most likely" does not sound very factual. A Link would be very helpful.

Quote

For the Factionworlds it will be some kind of mass system (like most victories in a given time) that gives the victory and control of the planet.

And yet again, the use of the term "some kind of" does not sound very factual based. A Link would almost be as if by magic.

And yes, your telling the gentleman above your to "read" has invoked this post. Please Link all of us and him to these "Facts" he is supposed to know, that he/we all have somehow missed? Thanks in advance btw.

[IIIuminaughty]

Draxern, on 03 June 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

Well personally I feel the amount of tactical detail they place into the galactic map is almost as important as how fun each battle is. I personally don’t wish to see planets constantly changing hands every single battle. Or the attacker’s stealth striking down planets by attacking during non peak times.

I hope the system in place has already received extensive planning and if not yet implemented will be shortly.
I hope taking a planet involves more than a single 12 v 12 battle. Even on non tactically important planets.
I hope the system is similar to WW2 online where the attackers declare their future objectives. And need to capture a forward landing base.

Step one would be decided by the average result of 10 x company sized battles. If the defenders win then the attackers are pushed off the planet. And the attackers will then need to wait till next cycle of declarations occur before being able to attack that planet. ( Eg planets gets a safe time reward for successful defense)

If the attackers win then they can move forward and attack the capital city again the average result of 10 battles decides success or failure. Defender win they push attackers back to their drop ships. And then they can repeat step one and attempt to push the attackers from the planet.

Attacker wins go to step 3 pushing defenders out the space port. Again the average result of 10 battles would determine the winner. Defenders win they get the chance to retake the city. Attackers win they capture the planets.

Planets need to also have factional benefits this could be as simple as reduces purchasing costs by one percent on med lasers. Or on more important planets greater benefits for example controlling a planet with functional mech production factory could equal 5% reduction on purchasing a mech.

Just some ideas and i hope the system they have already thought up goes into 100 times more detail. But i places this up so we would have something to discuss.

I like the idea but 10 battles kinda to much, probably more like 3-5

Edited by StrataDragoon, 04 June 2012 - 08:22 AM.

[Adrienne Vorton]

http://mwomercs.com/...munity-warfare/

there you go...it´s stated that faction world being occupied by INFLUENCE POINTS that are generated by battles won..so the more battles your house wins, the more points you generate and finally occupy the planet

[Carl Wrede]

MaddMaxx, on 04 June 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

Please post a Link to the Dev Blog stating this as fact. Otherwise it is simply more mere speculation.



Again, the use of the term "most likely" does not sound very factual. A Link would be very helpful.



And yet again, the use of the term "some kind of" does not sound very factual based. A Link would almost be as if by magic.

And yes, your telling the gentleman above your to "read" has invoked this post. Please Link all of us and him to these "Facts" he is supposed to know, that he/we all have somehow missed? Thanks in advance btw.

Well if you had read my earlier post there is a link there and if you follow that one and read it you will find the answers.
You are welcome btw.

Its the same link as Adrienne helpfully posted here above me.

Edited by Carl Wrede, 04 June 2012 - 02:43 PM.

[William McNab]

Well, now that there are links posted I have nothing of value to say. :-)

[Andrew Waltfeld]

Honestly I hope it's similar to what world of tanks does for planetary conquest. The system allows just about any group to get in the fight, but only the best groups have been able to conquer significant territory. The only downside is that the world map is a bit small so getting on the map can be quite tricky at first.

I feel the most eloquent part of the system is that each province (planet in this game) has a "prime time" attached to it so that it can only be attacked at that time. This gives your group the power to choose which "prime time" is best for the majority of your players and only go after territories in that zone.