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Lessons/ideas For Pgi


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#1 D34K

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:51 PM

Firstly, I come in peace; this is not another "I hate PGI" post. :)

I was a big fan of Dark Age of Camelot and was very excited to see Mark Jacob's new game (Camelot Unchained) begin its KickStarter a few days ago. His company, City State Entertainment, are, like PGI, a small-ish development team and face similar challenges to what PGI have with MWO: specifically, modest resources and time to deliver the content that their community want.

However, City State's approach to their community is different and I wonder if there's something in this that could enable PGI to make MWO bigger and better?

Check out this video on their Camelot Unchained update from about 2 minutes:

http://www.kickstart...ed/posts/445753

Rather than try to make a game that closes off the community from involvement, they are actively seeking to involve them by making the game's systems open. For example, if you wanted to embed your guild's in-game chat channel into your own website -- you can. The same systems they use to build the game -- a pure PvP game, I might add -- are available to you.

It got me thinking about what a good job TheMagician has done with the Run Hot or Die League or KaoS' own Multitalented and his Proxis League.

These people have tried to build something to make MWO more than the sum of its parts; they did this despite PGI's attempts to make community involvement almost impossible. (I still have nightmares about trying to sync drop our matches with Antares Scorpions for 3 hours during various matchmaker fiascos.) Imagine what these guys in our community could do if MWO's systems were exposed via an API? What if game results could be used to power their leagues? Muti's Proxis League already approximates planetary warfare -- imagine what that could be like if he had actual data to work with? PGI wouldn't need to worry about community warfare; it's essentially there in terms of a framework.

Also, how cool would Smurfy's mechlab be if that connected to MWO's actual systems?

I really believe that if you give people the tools and encouragement, they will build amazing things that will take MWO so much further than would otherwise be possible. That has to be a win for everyone in my eyes. I think PGI must now realise that what they can realistically deliver is not even close to the expectations of what people are prepared to pay much more money for. For example, I might seriously consider buying MC-based items if I thought there was a meaningful game experience to use them in.

There is some frustration behind this post, I admit. Being a purely competitive/league player, I burned out on MWO about a month ago and am hiding in GuildWars 2 hoping for something to pull me back. But, sadly, what I see is continuing missed opportunities with MWO's community. I see a large number of talented individuals who could make leagues, tournaments, apps, maps, scripts, story arcs, data query tools and visualisations, and who knows what.

TL;DR version: PGI should encourage their community to create, not frustrate and hinder them.

Edited by D34K, 05 April 2013 - 01:13 PM.


#2 3rdworld

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:54 PM

They cannot charge MC for user created content.

#3 Gristle

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:57 PM

View Post3rdworld, on 05 April 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

They cannot charge MC for user created content.


^^this^^

#4 OpCentar

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:59 PM

Plugging in 3rd party subsystems into your own isn't easy.

It requires a decent system of your own, control, isolation, management... that all costs.

It's a nice thing to have and for some reason I think some of the devs said something about exposing a API to the public some time in the future. I might be wrong so correct me if I am PGI.

#5 D34K

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 01:04 PM

View Post3rdworld, on 05 April 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

They cannot charge MC for user created content.


Not what I said or meant. :)

I meant I would consider spending money on things (like mechs) if the game had a more compelling experience. Such as leagues, better data, etc, etc. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

#6 Splitpin

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 01:14 PM

View Post3rdworld, on 05 April 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

They cannot charge MC for user created content.


Didn't stop Blizzard, Curse lists 6,038 AddOns for WoW.

#7 3rdworld

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 01:18 PM

View PostSplitpin, on 05 April 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:


Didn't stop Blizzard, Curse lists 6,038 AddOns for WoW.


Curse charges money for add-ons now?

#8 Splitpin

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 01:30 PM

View Post3rdworld, on 05 April 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:


Curse charges money for add-ons now?


No, not my point at all. Blizzard had a mind set that allowed user created content, lua addons. WoW was better for it and they sure charged for that. The best of user created addons turned up built into WoW in the end because they were good ideas and had added useful functionality and happened much faster than if they'd had to wait for the developers 'to get around to it'.

#9 3rdworld

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 01:39 PM

View PostSplitpin, on 05 April 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:


No, not my point at all. Blizzard had a mind set that allowed user created content, lua addons. WoW was better for it and they sure charged for that. The best of user created addons turned up built into WoW in the end because they were good ideas and had added useful functionality and happened much faster than if they'd had to wait for the developers 'to get around to it'.


Interfaces are quite a bit different than what he is talking about. WoW does not have any user created content AFAIK, it is just addons.

He isn't talking about interfaces, he is talking actual content. Moreover your example is a subscription based and not F2P. Allowing something created by users is just closing a potential revenue stream for PGI.

Granted I have not played WoW since BC.

Edited by 3rdworld, 05 April 2013 - 01:39 PM.


#10 Esplodin

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 02:03 PM

0) Licensing terms and IP laws.
1) Cryengine - not friendly to user created maps, etc
2) Art assets, etc. - Google images, or original works? Trust
3) Time to create bridge code and submission wrappers
4) Time to run through developers for bugs and amateur coding so the game doesn't melt your video card
5) Time to run through QA and play testing for hidden pony p.orn when you stand in the corner of G6, face south by southwest, and look at the mountains in heat vision.
6) Le Squaaaaak

Honestly with the way IP laws and trolls (patent and otherwise) are I'm surprised anyone dares to create anything. I know I wouldn't subject myself to a crowd like this willingly. :)

Edited by Esplodin, 05 April 2013 - 02:03 PM.


#11 Zomboyd

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 02:14 PM

i would just love for the community to be able t ocreate maps and then submit them to PGI for authentication. this way they can control the maps but we get more then whta we have





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