154 replies to this topic

[Inyc]

I don't play a Hunchback. I know you can do well with a Hunchback. I know you can get top score with one. You can do so with any mech in the game, even the stock mechs. You can stop coming in here and saying you do well with the 4SP.

But that doesn't change that Hunchbacks need help. Every time I see one on the enemy team, I go for them because I know I can get an easy kill with very little risk to myself. In my Jager, I just shoot his hunch twice. In my Cent, thrice. Once that's done, I've pretty much won. If I can get a back shot, its even faster. One shot from my Jager will destroy his back side, two in my Cent.

The hunch is just too big a vulnerability on that mech. Having all your weapons in one spot is already a glaring weakness, having that be a side torso, which will take one of your arms with it AND damage your CT once it blows is an absurd weakness. Hunchbacks require some "quirks" to help them out. Maybe giving their hunch side torso as much armor as their center. Maybe have XL engines only go into the center + left side torso so they can actually mount some - and up their engine size a bit, like with the Cent.

If you don't believe the Hunch needs help, compare it to the Treb. Realistically, the Treb can make any build the Hunch can, has the same available armor, can sport a MUCH bigger engine AND JumpJets. And it doesn't have that big "SHOOT HERE" hunch.

Even the "best" hunch, the 4SP can be replicated better with a Cent or a Treb.

The most unique variant, the Swayback 4P is really hurt by small lasers being poop. How does it make sense for them to be 90m? If you follow the stat balance from LL to ML, then SL should have a 160m (320m max) range. Not 90. Even the SPL should be at 105m. I get that they're supposed to be close range weapons but 90 meter isn't close range. 90 meter is "I die or you die, no one is getting out" range. Which is something a medium mech should not have to commit to. Especially one with such a low engine rating.

Edited by Inyc, 06 April 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[Vermaxx]

The Hunch 4SP has two hunches. Which one do you shoot? Name the mech that can replicate both the weapon load AND symmetry of the 4SP. It's not about raw hard points, its about the ability to lose half your mech and still have half your weapons.

Not all Hunches are a stock 4G. The 4G is an admittedly terrible mech.

And no one puts small lasers on a 4P anymore, the heat system can run mediums well enough.

Edited by Vermaxx, 06 April 2013 - 08:56 AM.

[Inyc]

Vermaxx, on 06 April 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

The Hunch 4SP has two hunches. Which one do you shoot?

Not all Hunches are a stock 4G. The 4G is an admittedly terrible mech.

The 4 SP is one of 5 Hunchback variants.

[Sephlock]

Most of the time I put an XL engine in my unihunched hunchies, because I'd rather die than live without my ac/20, 3x mgs, or 3x ac/2s... not to mention the laser on the attached arm.

[Silentium]

The 4SP is the way to go for straight brawlability. While taking out one side is a significant reduction, the remaining firepower is still nothing to sneeze at.

You are right though. It got to the point where I would load them out all lop sided. I even stopped putting stuff in the right arm so I could cram bigger weapons into the left.

[Tennex]

needs an engine size buff.

and the small laser need to be unnerfed. only thing that will do is help jenners and swayback. and as a result nerf the 3L.

Edited by Tennex, 06 April 2013 - 09:02 AM.

[Mild Monkey]

I'm piloting the 4sp exclusively, or almost so. I am on par with any AC40 Jag out there, I assure you. Yes, they can kill me quick when I'm not VERY cautious, but: the symmetrical design of the 4sp provides me with the ability to stay in the field after being halved, the 260 standard engine gives me mobility without making me overly vulnerable, the spead tweak increases it even more and the most important part, 2 energy slots in each arm, the arms being "full" arms. I can basically present my quite thick front armor, run away at 92,7 kph and keep firing at least 4 ML, sometimes even 4 ssrm, if this is the built im using right then. It is a very forgiving mech for beginners and a very versatile striker in the hands of experienced pilots. This being said, all the other variants are sub par and the idea of giving them quirks appeals to me because it takes a long time to fully master the 4sp in order to make it a viable weapon platform and an actual contribution to a competitive team.

[Inyc]

Tennex, on 06 April 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

needs an engine size buff.

and the small laser need to be unnerfed. only thing that will do is help jenners and swayback. and as a result nerf the 3L.

Giving a range buff to SL to put them back in line with LL and ML will also help out the Spider and Commando. Arguably, Machine Guns could use the same range buff. Going from 90-200 to 160-480. Both of those are small weapons meant to be shot a lot to compete with their bigger, less shot variants... but because of the ridiculous range, they end up getting shot less.

[Johnny Reb]

I for one would love to go back to the 130+ kph days for the 9 small laser Hunchie!

[Inyc]

Mild Monkey, on 06 April 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

I'm piloting the 4sp exclusively, or almost so. I am on par with any AC40 Jag out there, I assure you. Yes, they can kill me quick when I'm not VERY cautious,

Again, the 4SP is ONE of FIVE variants. And while you can mount the same number of lasers as a JM6-S, he gets two AC/10s or AC/20s while you get two SRM6s. That is not comparable damage or DPS. His side torsos have as much armor as your center. And his top speed is about 8 KP/h lower than yours. Imagine that you are fighting yourself. One of you is an the 4SP, one of you in the JM6-S, who wins? This isn't a comparison you can make.

You can on the other hand compare it to a CN9-AL with 4 ML and 2 SRM6... and the same armor, and a bigger engine. Or to a TBT 5N or 3C with 4 ML and 2 SRM6, with the same armor and a bigger engine. That's what I mean. Even the BEST of the Hunchback variants is outclassed by the other two 50 ton medium mechs. And they're still less vulnerable to side torso shots because their arms are more priority targets and are actually big enough to be used as torso shields.

Johnny Reb, on 06 April 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

I for one would love to go back to the 130+ kph days for the 9 small laser Hunchie!

That's a bit extreme, but somewhere between this and what they have now would be a good spot.

[Ravingdork]

lol. My 4P eats jagermechs for lunch.

[Inyc]

Ravingdork, on 06 April 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

lol. My 4P eats jagermechs for lunch.

Barely more speed, much less armor, equal or lower Alpha, lower DPS. Again, imagine that instead fighting a noob on a Jager, you are fighting yourself. So it's you vs you, equal skill. Except one of you is in a mech that is better in every way.

[Braggart]

Vermaxx, on 06 April 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

The Hunch 4SP has two hunches. Which one do you shoot? Name the mech that can replicate both the weapon load AND symmetry of the 4SP. It's not about raw hard points, its about the ability to lose half your mech and still have half your weapons.

Not all Hunches are a stock 4G. The 4G is an admittedly terrible mech.

And no one puts small lasers on a 4P anymore, the heat system can run mediums well enough.

so your answer is that because 1 variant is better than the rest, the mech is ok? The hunch is also the slowest medium be far. It needs an engine speed increase, and all mediums need a little bonus.

Perhaps the Hunch should have an armor increase on the LT and RT for its quirks.

[Dreamslave]

Tennex, on 06 April 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

needs an engine size buff.

and the small laser need to be unnerfed. only thing that will do is help jenners and swayback. and as a result nerf the 3L.

No, it doesn't. Because then the CN9 quirk will be pointless. Quirks need to be unique, not copy/pasted across the board.

OT: The hunchback is a pretty easy target to decimate, even the 4SP, although admittedly the 4SP is the only build that stands a chance at being a threat. The HBK's tiny little arms are terrible shields, as stated previously the "hunch" is a glaring weakness. When in my CN9-A or D I never feel threatened by a HBK. In my D i'm much too fast and easily get behind them, in my A I can just tank their damage and rip their torso's off easily.

[Vermaxx]

Ok heeeeere we go.

FAST mediums (over 100kph) are a waste. You're still too slow to keep up with the lights, and your speed often means you leave behind the heavy/assault players - who you are supposed to be shadowing. The 260 engine cap is a great balance between weight, speed, maneuverability, and doesn't let you instantly leave behind EVERYONE.

Jump jets are an opinion piece. There is nothing they do (unless it is a bug) that makes them 'necessary equipment' on any design. They give some people more wiggle, and are notorious for exploits they allow. I do not consider a lack of jets to be a negative.

As I said, the 4G is a bad design, with three of its six hardpoints in one shoulder...which is attached to one of the three energy. Four of the five Hunches all have the 'hunch,' which is why I use the 4SP mostly. I do not know of any other medium mech with the same level of weapon symmetry. You can literally lose an entire side and attached arm and still have 3/5 lasers and one missile rack. It also forces people to CHOOSE which shoulder to hit, and then aim more carefully.

Your thread is entirely opinion, because you OPEN with the admission that you 'know how a Hunch can be good.' Your post suggests you do not use them, but may have, and further suggests you use Centurions and Trebuchets currenty. It also states how easy a medium mech is to kill (using a HEAVY mech designed for LARGE CANNONS, no less).

Plenty of us like the Hunch. It lost a lot of gimmick features when the Centurion came out, because for a long time it was the ONLY MEDIUM MECH. We were thrown a bone with the unlimited engine speeds and the 4P being included, which became unfair when other mediums began showing up.

I'd also like to point out that the 4P is the only medium with nine hardpoints in general, let alone all of them being energy.

[Mild Monkey]

Nah. disagree with you, OP. See, I am a dedicated medium pilot and a very poor heavy pilot. So when fighting myself in a Jager, the Hunch-me would win 9 out of 10. And there are drawbacks to the Jag design I can exploit in my 4SP, like the inflexibility of its arm mounted prime balistic armament. Believe me when I say that I am very dangerous against heavies in my 4SP. However you are right in saying that there are other variants of the Hunch that need attention.
As for the Trebby, yes, it has more speed, at least the same armament and armor and JJ's on some variants. What it lacks is twist angle and arm movement range. I never hesitate to face any Trebuchet configuration. There are mechs I respect, like the Jag, if I'm careless or not in best shape. The cent is not as dangerous to a 4sp as I thought it to be, it can soak in a lot of damage, though and survive longer. It all depends, but the 4SP is hands down my platform of choice. My platform, I can't stress this enough. Others might beg to differ and I'm sure they all make valid points.

[Vermaxx]

You want to give Hunchbacks a bonus? Get PGI to unfork the machine gun.

[IceSerpent]

Inyc, on 06 April 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Again, the 4SP is ONE of FIVE variants. And while you can mount the same number of lasers as a JM6-S, he gets two AC/10s or AC/20s while you get two SRM6s. That is not comparable damage or DPS. His side torsos have as much armor as your center. And his top speed is about 8 KP/h lower than yours.

So, the whole point of this thread is to let us know that having extra 15 tons of weight allows one to pack extra weapons and armor? Sorry to break news to you like this, but we kind of suspected that all along...

Quote

Imagine that you are fighting yourself. One of you is an the 4SP, one of you in the JM6-S, who wins? This isn't a comparison you can make.

4SP, hands down. Even with nerfed SRMs in place.

Quote

You can on the other hand compare it to a CN9-AL with 4 ML and 2 SRM6... and the same armor, and a bigger engine. Or to a TBT 5N or 3C with 4 ML and 2 SRM6, with the same armor and a bigger engine.

Given that you are talking about the same exact weight and same exact loadout in all cases, the only way to mount a bigger engine is to use XL...and that's not exactly conductive towards continued survival in a brawl.

[Inyc]

Vermaxx, on 06 April 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Ok heeeeere we go.

FAST mediums (over 100kph) are a waste. You're still too slow to keep up with the lights, and your speed often means you leave behind the heavy/assault players - who you are supposed to be shadowing. The 260 engine cap is a great balance between weight, speed, maneuverability, and doesn't let you instantly leave behind EVERYONE.

You know this game has a throttle, you have more options than "stand still" and "MAX SPEED". You can amble along at 55kph to stick with the atlas AND you can go to 100 when it's on and you need to circle behind your target or get out of the line of fire. More speed is NEVER a weakness.

[Locan Ravok]

The Hunch was the first medium in the game. It is to big for todays standard and to slow.

But the problem is not just the Hunch, but all mediums. They have no real place in the game as it is. Or you are fast, or you have tons of weapons and armor. Before ELO you could bring a medium because it would force your enemy to bring also one. But right now there is no reason to pilot one over a light or a heavy.