81 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

Tarys, on 07 April 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Right. And by tuning a bit of the current cap system like f.e. caps are only possible after x minutes the players who are seeking something to fight get their chance and the players who prefer capping still have their way to play the game. second only has to hide (or fight) for the given time until they can make a run to the cap.

wouldn´t that be better for the whole playerbase?

Not really, depending on the time frame we are talking about, it's just a nerf to capping for no other reason besides QQ.

I say just give them solaris if they want to play death matches all day.

[Noobzorz]

Tarys, on 07 April 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Right. And by tuning a bit of the current cap system like f.e. caps are only possible after x minutes the players who are seeking something to fight get their chance and the players who prefer capping still have their way to play the game. second only has to hide (or fight) for the given time until they can make a run to the cap.

wouldn´t that be better for the whole playerbase?

No. It would take the importance of maneuvering down a few notches and put an emphasis on hugfest AC/40 Jagers.

What you guys don't realize, I think, is that the crowd who is capping plays to win. They are more serious about it than you are (or, if you are equally serious, then they are better at it), and they believe that you have fun when you drag the skill level up instead of playing some ridiculous subgame where everyone agrees to behave in a non-optimal way.

You are complainers. It's not that you don't like being capped. It's that you don't like losing. You just focus on being capped because you are totally ineffective at preventing it, so you lose 90% of the games in which an enemy makes a cap attempt, and only 50% of the games in which they do not.

Well, I hate to say it, but sometimes in online competitive gaming you lose, and I think you will find that the segment of players who believes in fun through competition decides to put away their 3Ls and brawl with you, you will be forced to come to terms with this reality.

[Tarys]

Noobzorz, on 07 April 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

A timer of 5 minutes before you are able to cap gives you 5 minutes of carebear time. It is exactly analogous to saying 'no rush 20 mins' in a game of StarCraft. If it wasn't immediately obvious to you why it was bad, then it is not shocking you are having such problems with capping.

As for the rest of your ridiculous, none of them are reasonable either.

Why were you the only mech who went back to your base? Why was more than half the enemy team able to slip past you? Why would you split into two man lanches when you can have a single scout say "big pack headed to X, lets' defend that."

If your PUG team is worse than the enemy PUG team, WELL TOO ******* BAD. YOU SHOULD LOSE.

And if your mech is too slow, drop in something faster!


Virtually all of the complaints about capping can be boiled down to "I don't want to lose. It's not fair!" I wish you guys had the intestinal fortitude to accept things as they really are so you could see how sad all your QQ is.

seldom read such bs ...

1. 5 minutes (which is an example and no "i want this as a fix time") allows both playstyles on the battlefield. not only the baserushing "plz don´t hurt me" players have a right to get fun out of battle

2. why i was the only mech? how the heck should i know? can´t read other players thoughts. maybe they don´t watch the cap-bar. maybe they think they can make it to the enemy before cap is done. maybe they don´t care at all? ...

3. you know that their currently is a tonnage problem with the matchmaker or are you just trolling? you can get one light, you can get none. same goes for fast mediums

4. no scout - no telling where the enemy is. sometimes thinking must hurt a lot ...

5. dropping in a faster mech ... sure. why don´t we patch out every mech that goes below 120 kph? people who wanna play an atlas ain´t welcome. devs have to make a sign at the log-in ...

Some last words ... if i don´t want to lose i wouldn´t play a competitive game.But if i lose because from my point of view their is a problem with the cap-system (which has been registered by the devs or they wouldn´t have made that many changes to the rewards) i will tell the devs. After all it is a beta and they want feedback. If you don´t like other peoples opinions maybe you should stay out of such threads?

[operator0]

Tarys, on 07 April 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

So you think that light mechs are only good for fast capping? That sure is a poor point of view.

And with your logic ... if we don´t change cap mechanic why bother to run around with an assault that has to stay in the own base or otherwise it would be utterly useless in the current rushmatches?
That would leave the players who like to run slow heavies and assaults to something like afk bots in the own base.

So i have to ask: is that really what you want?

Or don´t you think it should be changed so that all players get more fun out of matches?
If most people are just interested in base rushes without fighting maybe the devs should add a gamemode called "evacuation". both teams are in seperated canyons and not able to get to each other and the first team that caps its objective point wins. Sounds like fun or?

Do you play 8 mans? Because it doesn't sound like it from your description. 8 good pilots in fast mechs cannot kill 8 good pilots in slower brawling mechs. They may get lucky and win a match like that, but 9 out of ten times, the good pilots in a heavier drop will waste the good pilots in a lighter drop.

If you disagree, then lets set up a match between your group and mine and find out who's right.

[Noobzorz]

Tarys, on 07 April 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

seldom read such bs ...

1. 5 minutes (which is an example and no "i want this as a fix time") allows both playstyles on the battlefield. not only the baserushing "plz don´t hurt me" players have a right to get fun out of battle

2. why i was the only mech? how the heck should i know? can´t read other players thoughts. maybe they don´t watch the cap-bar. maybe they think they can make it to the enemy before cap is done. maybe they don´t care at all? ...

3. you know that their currently is a tonnage problem with the matchmaker or are you just trolling? you can get one light, you can get none. same goes for fast mediums

4. no scout - no telling where the enemy is. sometimes thinking must hurt a lot ...

5. dropping in a faster mech ... sure. why don´t we patch out every mech that goes below 120 kph? people who wanna play an atlas ain´t welcome. devs have to make a sign at the log-in ...

Some last words ... if i don´t want to lose i wouldn´t play a competitive game.But if i lose because from my point of view their is a problem with the cap-system (which has been registered by the devs or they wouldn´t have made that many changes to the rewards) i will tell the devs. After all it is a beta and they want feedback. If you don´t like other peoples opinions maybe you should stay out of such threads?

Good god man. It's a struggle to try to communicate with someone as obtuse as you are.
First, just look at what you've written. Why is it fair that if five random strangers on the other team get together and executed a coordinated maneuver, your team should have an equal shot when no one does the same? What does it have to do with capping that you got screwed by the matchmaker? Why couldn't you have a medium or a light heavy scout?
Ask yourself, "is this a complaint I have with capping, or is this a complaint I have with matchmaking?"


If it's the former, explain why. If it's the latter. Stop.*******.Crying. Seriously.

As for why you'd play a competitive game if you don't like to lose, who knows? Because you're engaged in massive cognitive dissonance and you reject the notion of taking responsibility for your failures? I mean, you would be the best person to ask, on account of the fact you're literally doing it right now.

As for insulting my intelligence, seriously, go **** yourself. I will spare you the indignity of pointing out another horrific truth to you and leave it at that.

operator0, on 07 April 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

Do you play 8 mans? Because it doesn't sound like it from your description. 8 good pilots in fast mechs cannot kill 8 good pilots in slower brawling mechs. They may get lucky and win a match like that, but 9 out of ten times, the good pilots in a heavier drop will waste the good pilots in a lighter drop.

If you disagree, then lets set up a match between your group and mine and find out who's right.

He's a moron. Just ignore him.

[Tarys]

Noobzorz, on 07 April 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

[size=4]

No. It would take the importance of maneuvering down a few notches and put an emphasis on hugfest AC/40 Jagers.

What you guys don't realize, I think, is that the crowd who is capping plays to win. They are more serious about it than you are (or, if you are equally serious, then they are better at it), and they believe that you have fun when you drag the skill level up instead of playing some ridiculous subgame where everyone agrees to behave in a non-optimal way.

You are complainers. It's not that you don't like being capped. It's that you don't like losing. You just focus on being capped because you are totally ineffective at preventing it, so you lose 90% of the games in which an enemy makes a cap attempt, and only 50% of the games in which they do not.

Well, I hate to say it, but sometimes in online competitive gaming you lose, and I think you will find that the segment of players who believes in fun through competition decides to put away their 3Ls and brawl with you, you will be forced to come to terms with this reality.

Name Value MechWarrior Credits 5,100 Kills / Death 1,659 / 914 C-Bills 3,116,154 Experience Points 1,015,963 Wins / Losses 950 / 851 Kill / Death Ratio 1.82 Accumulative C-Bills Per Match 123,379.80 Avg. XP Per Match 564.11

yeah ... i am a total noob that can´t play -> 100% PUG-only matches with every weight class and from basic to master skills.

I actually thought that players who play this game are here for competiton and are open for critic from other players point of view. Since that ain´t the case and complaints are just regard to as whining i take my leave.

If a mod is interested - feel free to close this thread. Don´t think there will be any more constructive talking.

[Ghogiel]

Tarys, on 07 April 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

seldom read such bs ...

1. 5 minutes (which is an example and no "i want this as a fix time") allows both playstyles on the battlefield. not only the baserushing "plz don´t hurt me" players have a right to get fun out of battle

Actually it doesn't allow both play styles. It locks one out for a certain amount of time. And 5mins? most of my matches are decided in 5mins lol.

[Noobzorz]

Tarys, on 07 April 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

Name Value MechWarrior Credits 5,100 Kills / Death 1,659 / 914 C-Bills 3,116,154 Experience Points 1,015,963 Wins / Losses 950 / 851 Kill / Death Ratio 1.82 Accumulative C-Bills Per Match 123,379.80 Avg. XP Per Match 564.11

yeah ... i am a total noob that can´t play -> 100% PUG-only matches with every weight class and from basic to master skills.

I actually thought that players who play this game are here for competiton and are open for critic from other players point of view. Since that ain´t the case and complaints are just regard to as whining i take my leave.

If a mod is interested - feel free to close this thread. Don´t think there will be any more constructive talking.

I never said you weren't good at mechwarrior. I said you were a complainer, and you are nowhere near as good as you think. You have the mechanical skill to execute your idiotic moves effectively and efficiently. This is a common thing in games, where someone exercises tremendous command over the basic niceties and they manage to carry themselves, kicking and screaming, through all the awful decisions they make.

You aren't as good as you think you are. You are a whiner and a fool.

Besides, if you have a W/L of 951-850, then what the **** are you talking about? You've clearly managed to stop plenty of cap victories. Why do you ignore what is right in front of your face?

Quote

I actually thought that players who play this game are here for competiton and are open for critic from other players point of view. Since that ain´t the case and complaints are just regard to as whining i take my leave.

Irony writ large.

Edited by Noobzorz, 07 April 2013 - 06:14 AM.

[ferranis]

Ghogiel, on 07 April 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:

Actually it doesn't allow both play styles. It locks one out for a certain amount of time. And 5mins? most of my matches are decided in 5mins lol.

That is the point.

[Ghogiel]

ferranis, on 07 April 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

That is the point.

The point is to remove base capping long enough that it becomes irrelevant for 90% of the games played?

yeah, no.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tarys, on 07 April 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

So you think that light mechs are only good for fast capping? That sure is a poor point of view.

And with your logic ... if we don´t change cap mechanic why bother to run around with an assault that has to stay in the own base or otherwise it would be utterly useless in the current rushmatches?
That would leave the players who like to run slow heavies and assaults to something like afk bots in the own base.

So i have to ask: is that really what you want?

Or don´t you think it should be changed so that all players get more fun out of matches?
If most people are just interested in base rushes without fighting maybe the devs should add a gamemode called "evacuation". both teams are in seperated canyons and not able to get to each other and the first team that caps its objective point wins. Sounds like fun or?

Its a question of choice. Limiting the mission profile in any way is wrong. There are folks who want to try to cap you as fast as possible. Why should they be forced out of the game because you want to brawl? The more ways to win the more people that will want to play.

[Rattlehead NZ]

When 12 vs 12 comes out you will probably see alot more attempts at capping the bases. Sounds bad I know, but it also means that guarding the base will indeed lead to fighting more often. With 8 vs 8 leaving just 2 guys behind and be the difference between win or lose if the other side rushes. More players will create more tactics ..... or more rushes with 12 mechs at once and nothing will change

Waiting to see how the 12 vs 12 works before worrying too much about it.

[N0V0CAIN]

I played against a steiner drop that had 6 Atlas's, they all moved to the center of tourmaline and I ended up being the last mech against two D(f)'s as I was capping them they were calling me names that would make my mother cry.

1. Why as a raven would I not use my speed as an advantage
2. Why not use their biggest weakness against them?

If you fail to cover the contingencies you will get beat.

You want to know who doesnt complain about being capped? Those people who play defense.

[Zphyr]

Excuse me, gentlemen, I will simply quote the poll:

"No - it is fine; L2P"

Have a nice day.

[Taemien]

Tarys, on 07 April 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

Funny how you (Teamien) and some others know how i play.

If the shoe fits, wear it. Only going by what you have posted. You've admitted that you don't go back with your team to fight them

Quote

- Does it matter if i am the only mech that goes back to our base to stand against 5+ enemy mechs and eat dust?
No, it mostly doesn´t.
- Can i "force" my PUG-teammembers to move as 2 lances instead of a zerg?
Sure not.
- Is it smart to avoid the own zerg and go the second way alone?
Depends on my mech but often it results in death and people would more likely say that i shouldn´t play Rambo and stay near the group.
- Do i have some chance of getting back from lets say the "middle" of the map with a mech going 50-60 kph?
Maybe if only one mech is capping.

Sounds like your problem is you are fighting cooridinated teams. PUGs don't band up and rush a base. If they ever do, its because someone stepped up as a leader and the others listened. Thats very rare however.

Quote

But one mech capping ain´t my problem with this game mode. As i said before i have problems with the people rushing as a fullgroup or at least 5 mechs directly to the base to completely avoid fighting. Guess most of the people who like this way to play need it for their e-peen called w/l rate ...
To make it clear i LIKE it if it turns out during a fight that one side tries to get to the cap and forcing the other side to react. That is actually a tactical decision made out of the fighting ...

The reason groups cap isn't to pad w/l stats (that will artificially inflate ELO scores). Its to break up the enemy team. More often than not, the PUG zerg will stay together, even if it isn't tactically smart to do so. But even then, 5-8 mechs in a single location, especially if it is somewhat defensible is a threat to focus fire. Even PUGs have the ability to focus fire the first thing they see. So to break up their formations, players rush for the cap.

This is effectively dividing and conquering. Basically you give the enemy an ultimatum, fight on our terms or lose. Fighting in MWO is all about who has the initiative, going for the base is the most straight forward means of doing this. Its not without its risks though. An enemy group that goes back together will sometimes bring the zerg with them and then there's a massive fight. However most groups are 2-3 so this doesn't happen too often, this is where you are seeing this frustration.

So cappers aren't avoiding fights, they are avoiding being focus fired. Again the best way to counter this, is to defend the base. You can make a PUG defend. Though its best to run in groups so that the zerg is more likely to stick around

Quote

And maybe some of the voters for "L2P" would be so nice to tell me why f.e. a timer of around 5 minutes before you are able to cap ain´t good? If both sides want to play rushmode you could basetrade and just sit on the enemy base. Then it would be decided by which side is having the most cap-modules. But that wouldn´t be fun for you too or?

Because there is only 15 minutes in a match. And yes it would promote more rushmoding. Players would know "hey I've got 5 minutes before it starts ticking, I have that much time before I need to worry about defending the base, so lets use that time to go to the other base" In other words it would give each team more time to rush the other base before suffering any bad effects from it.

Besides, it takes about that long for the slowest moving mechs to leave the area, what are they doing in that first five minutes when they are getting capped? Ignoring it? I think your problem either lies with you, or your team. Not the opponents. See this is why I call people out who hate cappers, they won't take personal responsibility for their losses:

Got capped? Should have defended your base.
Enemy had more ECM? Should have brought your own.
Enemy had more Lights? Could have brought a light mech yourself.
Enemy was in a group on voice? Should have been in a team of your own on voice.
Enemy blasted you at range? Should have had long range weapons.
Got beat by a cheese build? Just need to get better (boats are the most ineffective mechs on the field compared to mixed loadouts, at least IMO)

This isn't to say everyone should be in light mechs with ECM in groups on voice (though you can if you wish, I don't recommend it, as it will bite you in the ***). But blaming opponents or game mechanics isn't the way to go about it. Adapt and Overcome, and understand PUGs are PUGs and do PUG things. Never blame the PUGs, they are what they are and will be what they will be, and always have been what they've been.

[batesman]

Assault mode DOES suck now. If you want to capture stuff, the go play capture mode. Assault mode should be for duking it out until nothing but smoldering heaps of metal remain.

[Oppresor]

Raalic, on 06 April 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

How about we make bases strategic objectives with their own static defenses? Would be hard to complain about the ability to cap a base with walls, AC turrets and long toms.

Checkout my entry, about 14th down on the first page of this thread. What do you think of the firepower weighting for the defensive turrets and minefield? I do like your idea for walls, I seem to remember something like this being used in Mech 4.

[Oppresor]

Teralitha, on 06 April 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

What do you do when the other team camps their base too? Sit for 15 minutes and watch TV? Great plan...

A sensible approach is needed, send two of your fastest lights (in my case that would be the Spider) to Recon; tell them not to engage, but to hide and feed back tactical info on enemy composition and movements. If it becomes obvious that the enemy is going to remain entrenched, send your best Snipers (in my case the Atlas) and harass / take out whatever they can at range. The Recon lights continue to report back, but also help to defend the Snipers from the enemy lights.

Eventually, the enemy will probably commit; at that point you should still have some decent firepower at your base with which to defend it. The good news is that if your Snipers are worth their salt, whatever heads to your base will have taken some degree of damage from their ER weapons.

[Tarball]

The problem if you couldn't win with a cap is when someone in a very fast mech with no weapons left runs off while on the other team only a slow mech is left. The game might not end for a very long time.

[Taemien]

Oppresor, on 08 April 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

A sensible approach is needed, send two of your fastest lights (in my case that would be the Spider) to Recon; tell them not to engage, but to hide and feed back tactical info on enemy composition and movements. If it becomes obvious that the enemy is going to remain entrenched, send your best Snipers (in my case the Atlas) and harass / take out whatever they can at range. The Recon lights continue to report back, but also help to defend the Snipers from the enemy lights.

Eventually, the enemy will probably commit; at that point you should still have some decent firepower at your base with which to defend it. The good news is that if your Snipers are worth their salt, whatever heads to your base will have taken some degree of damage from their ER weapons.

Skill based solutions in this community is considered Blasphemy and 'uncool'.