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A Wake Up Call


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#21 Joe Mallad

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:07 PM

View PostThuzel, on 07 April 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

I just had a wake up call and thought I'd share in case anyone is bored. Hopefully PGI will see it as well, but who knows...

I am as big a BT / Mechwarrior fanboy as they come. I've loved it since I was introduced to the second edition boxed set, and I've spent more time than I care to remember playing every single BT based game that's been released in america. I've even got a boxed set of Solaris VII in my closet and the original Mechwarrior PC game set up in DOSbox.

So, when I decided I had a little money to spare tonight, I considered spending it on MWO. But that thought only lasted about 10 seconds. Instead, I went and bought a $60 founders pack for neverwinter. Now, before I say anything else, I just want to say that I also bought into Star Trek Online when it first released, and that turned out to be a trainwreck. It was utterly horrible. The ground combat was less fun than getting a cavity filled.... And it was developed by cryptic studios, the same people working on neverwinter.

I still spent money on neverwinter instead of MWO because, when it's all said and done, even if it's bad it's almost certainly going to be a better investment than MWO. So, PGI, please shape up. I really want a viable and current BT game on the market, but as it stands right now, this just isn't. But even if you don't get it perfect, good enough will suffice. My willingness to give cryptic a second chance should speak to that.

Here are a few suggestions (feel free to ignore them):

1. Start working on consistency. This includes your patch releases as well as your customer communications. Patches being released during the beta phase are expected to have some bugs, but what we've seen over the last 12 months indicate huge gaping holes in your testing procedure in pre-release. Also, when you want to communicate to your customers, try to do so in a consistent manner. It doesn't matter where you post your message, just pick some place and stick to it. Even after you added the hot topic heatsink, it only took a couple of days before messages that should have gone there were going somewhere else, and that's only the latest example.

2. Work with the forums, not against them. I understand there's a lot of negativity floating around right now, but a lot of that sentiment has been brought on by your own actions. Regardless, these are the people who would happily be the fuel and fire for your game if you let them, so let them. Tell them what your working on, or where the game is going. Try not to shut them out. Also, don't release deadlines unless you are prepared to meet them or to be close to them, or failing that, tell us what's going on when they're missed.

3. Don't pay heed to only the squeaky wheel. There are a handful of extremely vocal members here, and it honestly feels as though they get more than a fair bit of attention. They don't represent the majority of your customers (Just as I probably don't either), so using their input as a weighted guide would be a mistake. Instead, start asking the customers directly for their input outside of the forums. Feel free to place polls in the actual game client, or ask for input from the game instead of the forum.

Now, all that being said, I want to congratulate you on the work you've done to date. I know you don't have a large shop, so it is impressive that you've come this far in only a year or so. A lot of people are really enjoying this game, and that's nothing to sneeze at.
i have to agree and id like to see an official "how are we doing" section by PGI. You know... you see the how's my driving stickers on trucks and company vehicles. When you have a service man for the cable, internet or appliances come out to your home to fix or install something, you generally get a "how was your service" questionnaire to fill out or call in on. Id like to see something like this... a link or a thread with polls on things PGI is or isnt doing for the game that we can fill out or poll on.

things like... how do you feel about our current content. How do you feel about future content. where would you like to see the game go. What dont you like about the game. What dont you want to see. so on and so forth.

#22 Thuzel

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:08 PM

View PostDavers, on 07 April 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

It might have cleared the water a bit more that "I will not support this game until they reorganize their forums" or "You should listen to the Forums, but not really since they represent such a small portion of the players." :ph34r:


Probably true, but that exceeds my pre-determined level of effort on the OP :P

If it were something I wrote back in December I probably would have cared a bit more.

View PostYoseful Mallad, on 07 April 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

i have to agree and id like to see an official "how are we doing" section by PGI. You know... you see the how's my driving stickers on trucks and company vehicles. When you have a service man for the cable, internet or appliances come out to your home to fix or install something, you generally get a "how was your service" questionnaire to fill out or call in on. Id like to see something like this... a link or a thread with polls on things PGI is or isnt doing for the game that we can fill out or poll on.

things like... how do you feel about our current content. How do you feel about future content. where would you like to see the game go. What dont you like about the game. What dont you want to see. so on and so forth.


Exactly that!

I've never seen another franchise with as much energy in its fanbase. PGI would do well to try and harness some of that.

Edited by Thuzel, 07 April 2013 - 06:09 PM.


#23 Smk

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:09 PM

Personally I just think this game needs a lot more maps. These types of games just do. I got sick of WoTs early map selection. Now the game is 3x as good just because of the much larger map list.

I completely understand they can't just poop out a bunch of maps but it's brutal to end up playing the same map 5-6 times in one session because of the small map list. It just burns me out.

#24 Ihasa

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:11 PM

View PostYoseful Mallad, on 07 April 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

i have to agree and id like to see an official "how are we doing" section by PGI. You know... you see the how's my driving stickers on trucks and company vehicles. When you have a service man for the cable, internet or appliances come out to your home to fix or install something, you generally get a "how was your service" questionnaire to fill out or call in on. Id like to see something like this... a link or a thread with polls on things PGI is or isnt doing for the game that we can fill out or poll on.

things like... how do you feel about our current content. How do you feel about future content. where would you like to see the game go. What dont you like about the game. What dont you want to see. so on and so forth.


True, PGI does seem to be floundering and could use such a thing after the log in screen. If for nothing else to give everyone a wake up call, whether it be PGI, the White Knights, the Haters or the Lurkers.

#25 Thuzel

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:16 PM

View PostSmk, on 07 April 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

Personally I just think this game needs a lot more maps. These types of games just do. I got sick of WoTs early map selection. Now the game is 3x as good just because of the much larger map list.

I completely understand they can't just poop out a bunch of maps but it's brutal to end up playing the same map 5-6 times in one session because of the small map list. It just burns me out.


Yeah, that's the nature of games like this. We can argue about who's and what's all day long, but by the end of it, without content people will just move on. It's something I hope PGI had planned out from the very beginning, which is why it's a little discouraging now.

Content such as the maps we use take months to plan and build, so you'd think PGI would have had them at the top of their list of staffing priorities... It's possible that they just couldn't find and hire the artists they needed, but in any case we're paying for it now.

#26 Bogus

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:18 PM

I'm with the OP, recently I got a huge raise and a bonus and I want to drop some cash money on games. But I just can't justify it on MWO which, while fun at times, is very much a work in progress and is simply not yet the game that I prepaid.

1. 100% fo shizzle agreed. PGI is getting better at this but they still have a tendency to leave everyone in the dark about what's really going on. At times like this it's wise to consider that one of the reasons CCP Games went from a total nobody to a major player in the MMO world capable of buying out other companies was they have always (at least until ~2010 anyway) been forthright with the customers, totally honest, never afraid to tell it like it is. They always treated the customers like the tech-savvy adults they are, and PGI could learn a few things from that. And speaking of 2010, you know what happened when they quit doing this? Epic failure and consumer backlash stemming from taking their cash flow for granted, that's what.

2. Most everything on the forums is BS, including this thread and everything that I say. But as with #1 it's good to let people know what's going on. The reason I'm not dropping 30 bucks on enough MC to buy fancy colors and/or a pink Elvismech is I'm experiencing a lot of critical and well-known fatal bugs and I really have no idea if they're even working on them let alone making progress. I feel like I can get more bang for my buck from buying a raft of old/indie games on Steam or GOG, I may or may not like my $5 game but it's a known quantity not a lot of "maybe it'll be good, maybe not, give us money and in six months maybe you'll know" sort of deal.

3. I like the idea of getting direct feedback from normal players, though I'm not sure the best way to go about doing it. This is another area where CCP has invested a lot of effort, but they never came up with anything that wasn't dominated by the same trolls and tryhards as the game forums.

#27 Kiiyor

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:21 PM

View PostThuzel, on 07 April 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:


Great point, but it's worth noting that "working with" doesn't necessarily mean "agreeing with". I'd rather PGI actually address more of the forum's ideas, even if they reject them. It's better than just ignoring them all.


Touché! Really, I'd be happy if their twitter and FB traffic made its way to the badlands here.

#28 Roadbeer

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:22 PM

View PostKiiyor, on 07 April 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Touché! Really, I'd be happy if their twitter and FB traffic made its way to the badlands here.

THIS



#29 Davers

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:24 PM

View PostBogus, on 07 April 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

. The reason I'm not dropping 30 bucks on enough MC to buy fancy colors and/or a pink Elvismech is I'm experiencing a lot of critical and well-known fatal bugs and I really have no idea if they're even working on them let alone making progress.


All you can do is keep sending in support tickets and providing them with the information they ask for. If the bugs were an easy fix, they would have done it by now.

#30 TheSteelRhino

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:25 PM

Hey OP,

I don't know when you actually started playing...maybe you were in closed beta. They basically patch every two weeks and hotfix issues as needed. The game is actually QUITE a bit more stable overall than it was.

1). IT's a beta..don't give me it's Free 2 Play garbage. When it goes "full release" then you can complain. Until then Beta terms apply (no I don't work for PGI, but I know what BETA means.)..oh yeah..don't try to tell me how I am wrong b/c it's the Free 2 play model...Beta means INCOMPLETE

2). I think they have..guess what..no matter what they do, somebody is crying.."LRMS are to strong"!..so they nerf them..someone else cries they are to weak. Not LOGICAL or meaningful comm in most cases..often screaming rants (which they said they pretty much ignore now b/c they are tired of abuse).

So...if you actually READ the forums, it does appear they are TRYING to.....

3). Here is the bad news....lots of folks are grumbling but not providing meaningful feedback. The VOCAL ones are the peeps that ARE posting. Seriously? You are going to complain but then say don't listen to me?

#31 Davers

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:26 PM

View PostKiiyor, on 07 April 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Touché! Really, I'd be happy if their twitter and FB traffic made its way to the badlands here.

I know. If only their twitter post showed up on the home page under Radio Chatter...like it does...

#32 Thuzel

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:27 PM

View PostBogus, on 07 April 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

I'm with the OP, recently I got a huge raise and a bonus and I want to drop some cash money on games. But I just can't justify it on MWO which, while fun at times, is very much a work in progress and is simply not yet the game that I prepaid.

1. 100% fo shizzle agreed. PGI is getting better at this but they still have a tendency to leave everyone in the dark about what's really going on. At times like this it's wise to consider that one of the reasons CCP Games went from a total nobody to a major player in the MMO world capable of buying out other companies was they have always (at least until ~2010 anyway) been forthright with the customers, totally honest, never afraid to tell it like it is. They always treated the customers like the tech-savvy adults they are, and PGI could learn a few things from that. And speaking of 2010, you know what happened when they quit doing this? Epic failure and consumer backlash stemming from taking their cash flow for granted, that's what.

2. Most everything on the forums is BS, including this thread and everything that I say. But as with #1 it's good to let people know what's going on. The reason I'm not dropping 30 bucks on enough MC to buy fancy colors and/or a pink Elvismech is I'm experiencing a lot of critical and well-known fatal bugs and I really have no idea if they're even working on them let alone making progress. I feel like I can get more bang for my buck from buying a raft of old/indie games on Steam or GOG, I may or may not like my $5 game but it's a known quantity not a lot of "maybe it'll be good, maybe not, give us money and in six months maybe you'll know" sort of deal.

3. I like the idea of getting direct feedback from normal players, though I'm not sure the best way to go about doing it. This is another area where CCP has invested a lot of effort, but they never came up with anything that wasn't dominated by the same trolls and tryhards as the game forums.


Excellent points every one!

I think one thing that really bothers me is something you pointed out above. I don't feel like we're treated as anything but cash cows. Every time something controversial comes out, they ask for (and they get) a lot of input, but none of it seems to go anywhere.

I'd absolutely respect PGI for just coming out and addressing things more often, as CCP did, even if it's not something I want to hear. I think most of us understand that PGI isn't making a game for us, it's making a game that they think can sell and last. So, sure, some compromises are necessary. Just be honest and open with us and it'll go a lot more smoothly.

Just my 2 cents.

#33 Roadbeer

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:27 PM

View PostDavers, on 07 April 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

I know. If only their twitter post showed up on the home page under Radio Chatter...like it does...


That's actually a thing?
I thought someone was trolling me when they said that.

#34 Ihasa

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:29 PM

View PostDavers, on 07 April 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

I know. If only their twitter post showed up on the home page under Radio Chatter...like it does...



If only they used their official communication channel, to make communication better and easier.....

#35 Kaboodle

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:30 PM

Sadly, you lost it already. I was willing to buy into NW, then played the beta weekend. It's really horrible, The way the classes are completely pigeonholed so far as to have "different" classes for 2h fighter and SwordnBoard fighter, instead of letting you build it yourself, is ********.

#36 DCLXVI

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:30 PM

View PostThuzel, on 07 April 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

lol, excellent :P

Posted Image

#37 Ihasa

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:31 PM

View PostRhinehardt Ritter, on 07 April 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Hey OP,

I don't know when you actually started playing...maybe you were in closed beta. They basically patch every two weeks and hotfix issues as needed. The game is actually QUITE a bit more stable overall than it was.

1). IT's a beta..don't give me it's Free 2 Play garbage. When it goes "full release" then you can complain. Until then Beta terms apply (no I don't work for PGI, but I know what BETA means.)..oh yeah..don't try to tell me how I am wrong b/c it's the Free 2 play model...Beta means INCOMPLETE

2). I think they have..guess what..no matter what they do, somebody is crying.."LRMS are to strong"!..so they nerf them..someone else cries they are to weak. Not LOGICAL or meaningful comm in most cases..often screaming rants (which they said they pretty much ignore now b/c they are tired of abuse).

So...if you actually READ the forums, it does appear they are TRYING to.....

3). Here is the bad news....lots of folks are grumbling but not providing meaningful feedback. The VOCAL ones are the peeps that ARE posting. Seriously? You are going to complain but then say don't listen to me?



You need to speak to your guild-mate Khana about the similarities between PGI and Cryptic.

#38 Davers

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:32 PM

View PostKaboodle, on 07 April 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

Sadly, you lost it already. I was willing to buy into NW, then played the beta weekend. It's really horrible, The way the classes are completely pigeonholed so far as to have "different" classes for 2h fighter and SwordnBoard fighter, instead of letting you build it yourself, is ********.

I dunno. I met someone who was very excited about it, especially all the player created content. Guess NW gets to pull out their 'It's Beta!' card now. :P

#39 Team Leader

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:34 PM

Hey, while I don't agree with shipping your money to companies with a bad reputation, this isn't a whine post and I wish everyone would just read it. It has points that PGI should listen to.

#40 Thuzel

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:37 PM

View PostDavers, on 07 April 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

I know. If only their twitter post showed up on the home page under Radio Chatter...like it does...


Not that it really matters (cause I'm just a guy), but you know what I do for a living? I automate back end data processes for large institutions. I am used to looking at hundreds upon hundreds of data points and conditional logic steps. I *am* a guy that makes his living looking through all the unnavigable crap that would make most people just log out.

So when I say this, I really mean it: This site is a freaking mess. Should we be checking the command chair? patch feedback? General discussion? hot topic heatsink? Announcements? Radio chatter??? Who the heck knows... Sure we could sift through all the crap that comes through the Radio chatter and the random posts slung throughout the whole of this thing, but who the heck has the time or energy for that?

View PostTeam Leader, on 07 April 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

Hey, while I don't agree with shipping your money to companies with a bad reputation, this isn't a whine post and I wish everyone would just read it. It has points that PGI should listen to.


Thank you!





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