51 replies to this topic

[TruePoindexter]

aniviron, on 08 April 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

It's funny though, because the stock 8Q is actually a pretty good mech now; it even has a reasonably heat efficiency thanks to the ppc heat tweak. The problem of course is that the pilots are new and even experienced pilots have no real recourse against this except staying with teammates, something that new players aren't as likely to do.

Also new players don't understand the minimum range. I frequently just close within spitting distance and pick them apart.

[Ryokens leap]

Trauglodyte, on 08 April 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

I've mastered the Dragon and I found the 5N(C) to be rather bleh. Granted, I absolutely hate Gauss Rifles cause they're crazy slow and the firing sound is awful, in my opinion. But, that thing runs 20kph slower then my 1C and just doesn't have as much oomph as my version. It does 2 more points of damage per alpha than mine (3 Md, 1 Streak, 1 PPC, and 1 AC2) but I don't like the fact that it is as weapon constrained and brittle as it is. It is definitely a good thing for a new user, though.

As for the arguement of Stock vs Community designs, the whole idea

of the Community design would be a non-issue if PGI would simply update the current mechs with 3050 tech. Standard structure goes to Endo Steel, SHSs turn to DHS, AC5 to UAC5, and so forth. PGI just needs someone to take a few hours to break down what needs to be upgraded and then you're fine.

Traug that's a crazy build! If you can make that work then much respect. It makes me afraid.

[l4Dl]

Yep, the Dragon 5N© is a solid trial mech.

Its a great step in the right direction, however.
The main issue i found was the lack of upgrades if the item was purchased.
I looked into this (as i was under the impression trial mechs should give room for improvement), however, there was none.

The mech config is that tight, it really cant be improved upon.

Ideally, if the Dragon 5N© used standard heatsinks, it would without a doubt, give me a reason to buy it and upgrade it.
Currently, i feel no need to buy a Dragon 5N because the trial mech is simply "too good".

But yes, this mech is a true indication of where trial mechs should be. It just needs a "little less" to promote customers to actually purchasing one for upgrade reasons.

Edited by l4Dl, 08 April 2013 - 05:19 PM.

[Victor Morson]

l4Dl, on 08 April 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Ideally, if the Dragon 5N© used standard heatsinks, it would without a doubt, give me a reason to buy it and upgrade it.
Currently, i feel no need to buy a Dragon 5N because the trial mech is simply "too good".

Eventually you'll want something besides that, though.

[MustrumRidcully]

Lefty Lucy, on 08 April 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

I don't think it's a perfect build at all, I just think it's leaps and bounds above stock mechs. I'd love to play an MWO where stock mechs are viable, but that is not the MWO we have.

It's all about the heat system. The designers of MWO want mechs to not be heat neutral, so that you cannot design the heat mechanic out of the game in the mechbay. In TT BT you can actually easily design out all heat concerns, even with single heat sinks. Just to be clear, I actually rather like this aspect of MWO, as resource management (in this case the resource being heat) adds depth to the game.

The thing is that you don't need to be heat neutral. Not in MW:O ,not in the table top. That you can be is not a problem, it doesn't make the game worse or anything. It just ... is a way to build your mech, but it's not neccessarily the best way. You see this very well in this game. People call(ed) the 6 SRM Catapult or the Hexa PPC Stalker cheese. These aren't heat neutral builds at all, they have high heat loads and can overheat faster than any stock mech possibly could in the table top, even the worst cases like the Nova.

In the table top, being heat neutral was a bit more attractive than it will ever be in MW:O, for two reasons:
- TT had Heat penalties even way before you shut down from high heat, while MW:O has a generous heat capacity.
- TT didn't have pin-point precision aiming - you could not rely on hitting your enemy where yo uwanted to hit, so you needed to account for much more missed shots or ineffective weapon fire (oh, great, all 6 medium lasers hit... But each a different hit location...) then in MW:O.

But even in the table top, running heat neutral was suboptimal - because there are just too many situations where you couldn't fire your weapons effectively anyway. So you wil lalways have turns where you can cool off a little and fire no or only a few weapons. But on the other hand, in those istuations where you have a good shot at your enemy, yo uwant a lot of firepower to increase your chances of destroying the enemy mech - risking heat penalties (or even a shutdown) is not that bad if you have a good chance of taking out your enemy with the attack. Any tonnag enow devoted to heat sinks that would make you heat neutral is wasted now and would be better replaced with another gun.

The trick to "min/maxing" the table top and the MW:O heat system is to ensure that you sustain enough damage long enough to kill an enemy before he can kill you. It's bad if you die while you're shut down, but it's also bad if you die before having gained any significant heat. The first means you were too hot, the second means you were too cool.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 09 April 2013 - 01:42 AM.

[DCLXVI]

tag your it. i was here first

[Ph30nix]

a huge step to help would be to make all trial mechs have at least the DHS upgrade. for most of them wouldnt even require editing their loadouts to replace any SHS they had as stock because in most cases just having DHS gives drasticly higher heat efficiency.

[Apnu]

Lefty Lucy, on 07 April 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

The entire trial mech system has been a nightmare since it debuted. Especially with MWO's heat system, stock mechs just can't hold a candle to mechs that have been designed specifically to handle MWO's relatively higher fire rate and slower dissipation rates.

Today I gave the new experiment a go: a player-designed trial mech.

In 5 games, this thing just rocked. 4:1 KDR, 4:1 W/L, 279 damage per match, it is just a really, really decent mech to drive. It's heat curve is forgiving, and it has plenty of ammo, which is really important to allowing noobs to learn their weapons.

I think the trial mech system is still intrinsically flawed, but if every trial mech were as solidly designed as this thing, it would be a lot more reasonable for keeping new players playing until they own their own mechs.

There's nothing wrong with trial mechs, they are the closest things the game has to the stock variants in the BattleTech Technical Readouts. And those mechs were always inferior to player designed ones. Every single mech in TRO 3025 would be tweaked by me (usually removing small lasers and machine guns in favor for more armor and/or heat sinks at a minimum). Those mechs just can't keep up with a human being min/maxing a chassis around a specific idea. The trial mechs are experts in all, masters in none. So they'll always suck. PGI is using them as an incentive to buy mechs and upgrade them. Plus they are a fun to see for beardy table top cranks like myself.

Now there is a valid point saying that they aren't competitive and so a new player might be discouraged after posting more than a few demoralizing losses, but I don't think that's the trial mech's fault. ELO is supposed to fix that so the newbs are with other newbs and so everything should normalize. Does ELO fix that? I can't say. I am also of the opinion that PGI should have a newbie world were folks grinding out to their first mech buy can grind with other newbs and cut their teeth. That would be awesome. MPBT: 3025 had that and it was great! I had some awesome games trying to figure out how to move, twist and shoot with other people equally clueless as I. Good times.

[Sephlock]

Lefty Lucy, on 07 April 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

The entire trial mech system has been a nightmare since it debuted. Especially with MWO's heat system, stock mechs just can't hold a candle to mechs that have been designed specifically to handle MWO's relatively higher fire rate and slower dissipation rates.

Today I gave the new experiment a go: a player-designed trial mech.

In 5 games, this thing just rocked. 4:1 KDR, 4:1 W/L, 279 damage per match, it is just a really, really decent mech to drive. It's heat curve is forgiving, and it has plenty of ammo, which is really important to allowing noobs to learn their weapons.

I think the trial mech system is still intrinsically flawed, but if every trial mech were as solidly designed as this thing, it would be a lot more reasonable for keeping new players playing until they own their own mechs.

http://www.pcgamer.c...ander-variants/

Also bundled in the patch are four variants for the recently-introduced Highlander and a new “Champion” tier of mechs. The first Champion is the Dragon DRG-5N©, a player-crafted loadout that’s only purchasable with MC, MWO’s in-game currency.

I'm going to try to interpret this in the nicest way possible.

Edited by Sephlock, 15 April 2013 - 03:15 PM.

[General Taskeen]

Sephlock, on 15 April 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

This is another Dragon-5© being destroyed by me

Edited by General Taskeen, 15 April 2013 - 04:06 PM.

[Sephlock]

http://www.youtube.c...7_Vr0nw#t=1m43s

That's the one that really fits the situation the best, though.

[Sephlock]

l4Dl, on 08 April 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Yep, the Dragon 5N© is a solid trial mech. Its a great step in the right direction, however. The main issue i found was the lack of upgrades if the item was purchased. I looked into this (as i was under the impression trial mechs should give room for improvement), however, there was none. The mech config is that tight, it really cant be improved upon. Ideally, if the Dragon 5N© used standard heatsinks, it would without a doubt, give me a reason to buy it and upgrade it. Currently, i feel no need to buy a Dragon 5N because the trial mech is simply "too good". But yes, this mech is a true indication of where trial mechs should be. It just needs a "little less" to promote customers to actually purchasing one for upgrade reasons.

If nothing else, it would have served as a good example of how to build a mech.