14 replies to this topic

[Evex]

At times devs or community managers let something slip that they might now want know. In no guts no galaxy podcast #66 we find something interesting out about elo. This all happens because the local dev on the podcast decides to check a host elo.


"No, you actually exactly one point higher then me in mediums...your other ones are all lower." -Garth


This would make it appear that elo is based on individual mech tonnage. What this simply would mean is that elo is not universal player based, but based on the individual tonnage class. In short your elo is different in a light, medium, heavy and assault mech depending on how often you pilot that tonnage class.

[Hotthedd]

This is exactly how we were told ELO would work. It makes sense.

[Royalewithcheese]

Yeah, they talked about this in the Elo post.

Personally I'm not a fan, because it drops experienced players who are starting out with a new weight class against players in trial mechs who are just starting out, period. Going up against a new pilot in an 81 KPH Raven with a shiny new AC40 Jagermech feels a little bit like kicking a puppy.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 08 April 2013 - 10:06 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

Royalewithcheese, on 08 April 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

Yeah, they talked about this in the Elo post.

Personally I'm not a fan, because it drops experienced players who are starting out with a new weight class against players in trial mechs who are just starting out, period. Going up against a new pilot in an 81 KPH Raven with a shiny new AC40 Jagermech feels a little bit like kicking a puppy.

Does it really matter when those 2 extremes meet? A vet in a new weight class versus a trial "anything"?

Given a couple Matches the Vet moves up. The "puppy" still has to deal with getting kicked by someone else.

[Kobold]

At this point, most "vets" already have established Elo ratings in every weight class.

[armyof1]

Well not quite correct, Elo is based on weightclass, not tonnage. So your Elo would be the same when you use a Dragon, Jager, Cataphract or Catapult. And really I certainly would not want it as one universal Elo score, as I run some classes more and am clearly better there than others.

[Tennex]

it is balanced by tonnage. every person has 4 elos.

which is a great idea. and a reason why we don't need tonnage matching anymore.

Edited by Tennex, 08 April 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[NRP]

I actually wish we had an individual ELO score for each mech rather than just for each weight class. But that might be too cumbersome.

[Royalewithcheese]

MaddMaxx, on 08 April 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Does it really matter when those 2 extremes meet? A vet in a new weight class versus a trial "anything"?

Given a couple Matches the Vet moves up. The "puppy" still has to deal with getting kicked by someone else.

Well, definitely - it only lasted for a little while. But IMO that shouldn't happen at all - either the Elo for starting players should be moved down, or Elo should be a function of performance in a weight class and performance in general.

(And trap options like the Raven 4X shouldn't even be there for new players to stumble over.)

NRP, on 08 April 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

I actually wish we had an individual ELO score for each mech rather than just for each weight class. But that might be too cumbersome.

Yeah, I could see a system where your Elo was a function of performance in general and performance in a particular mech working pretty well.

[armyof1]

Tennex, on 08 April 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

it is balanced by tonnage. every person has 4 elos.

which is a great idea. and a reason why we don't need tonnage matching anymore.

Well that I would have to really disagree with, tonnage matching is most certainly still needed because of a difference in firepower especially if we're talking about Assault mode. When host state rewind will be complete for all weapons it's going to be a lot tougher being a good killer as a light.

Edited by armyof1, 08 April 2013 - 10:49 AM.

[Jonathan Paine]

Without tonnage matching, the current Elo system is of limited value. Simple example: imagine two identical Jonathan Paine's facing off. Both have the same whatever rating in both medium and assault mechs. One J.P. picks a hunchback, one J.P. picks the Atlas DDC. The DDC J.P. beats the crap out of hunch J.P.

Of course, hunch J.P. would eventually fall in the Elo rankings, and would not have to face DDC J.P. Which would, eventually, lead to a upper crust of DDC J.P's facing off, while the hunch J.Ps languish in the Elo basement.

TL;DR
Elo matching without weight matching leads to DDC sausage fest.

[MaddMaxx]

Royalewithcheese, on 08 April 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Well, definitely - it only lasted for a little while. But IMO that shouldn't happen at all - either the Elo for starting players should be moved down, or Elo should be a function of performance in a weight class and performance in general.

(And trap options like the Raven 4X shouldn't even be there for new players to stumble over.)

Yeah, I could see a system where your Elo was a function of performance in general and performance in a particular mech working pretty well.

But there is something to be said for running a 3L for 15 Matches then hopping into an Atlas. A Vet will adapt quicker but the change is far from immediate.

[Esplodin]

MaddMaxx, on 08 April 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

But there is something to be said for running a 3L for 15 Matches then hopping into an Atlas. A Vet will adapt quicker but the change is far from immediate.

Spider pilot here. 115,852XP on the 5D chassis alone. Bought my first assault, the Heavy Metal, when it came out. Pink for the Lulz and JJ. 2nd match had 4 kills and over 900 damage.

[Fate 6]

Tennex, on 08 April 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

it is balanced by tonnage. every person has 4 elos.

which is a great idea. and a reason why we don't need tonnage matching anymore.

It's a good idea, but we still need tonnage matchmaking. If I'm as good in a CN9-A as a guy is in his Atlas, then so can 7 other people. And I wouldn't want to play 8 mediums vs 8 assaults. Tonnage is still important. Some mechs rely on the presence of others in order to function - for example, a Hunchback needs heavies and assaults to be in the frontline to tank the aggression of the other team.

[Royalewithcheese]

IMO the best way to handle experienced players with new weight classes is to make their Elo with the new weight class a function of both their performance in that weight class and their performance in general.