5 replies to this topic

[TothMetres]

I wanted to ask the community about the math of base capping in the first 2 minutes of a battle. No ethical or moral questions about winning at all costs, just the math.

From what I have seen, A 5 minute battle rewards about 200-300k depending on if you win or lose. A 2 minute base cap rewards 75k to the winner.

Am I missing something about base capping before a single person is dead yet, that makes it good math?

I am completely for base capping if you are a lone light left against 3 atlases, and definately for threatening the base cap to confuse the enemy team into splitting up, but..... I just dont understand the guys that actually continue to cap their base.

What especially confuses me are the peeps that finish off the base cap when we are winning 4-0, or something similar.

Am I the noob with bad math skills , or are they?

[Deathlike]

Some people want the W, no matter how they get it.

Plus, the math for a "good overall game" is more like 100k c-bills for a win, and like 30 to 50k for a "decent" loss. This doesn't factor in premium time or founders/hero mechs.

[Wintersdark]

Well, some people aren't playing to grind for c-bills, they are playing to win the match. That's a valid win condition, so that's that.

As to math... You also need to consider the XP differences. If a player doesn't need c-bills but is trying to level his mechs, a cap win is worth more XP than a useless loss otherwise. If said player is playing, say, a ballistic light for XP, a cap win is a far faster and less soul destroying way to quickly master the chassis than trying to "fight", as he's not going to get much damage done or anything else.

And, yes, every experienced player has some saved screenshots of high-damage runs with such mechs. Brag all you like, those are outliers or weird Elo issues, don't bother posting them here. Maybe you're super special and always get 400 damage matches with crappy spiders. I don't care. For the vast majority of players, that's absolutely not the case.

A 2 minute quick cap win nets them FAR more experience over time than longer matches where they can't contribute much of anything.

[Hayashi]

Wintersdark, on 07 April 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Well, some people aren't playing to grind for c-bills, they are playing to win the match. That's a valid win condition, so that's that.

As to math... You also need to consider the XP differences. If a player doesn't need c-bills but is trying to level his mechs, a cap win is worth more XP than a useless loss otherwise. If said player is playing, say, a ballistic light for XP, a cap win is a far faster and less soul destroying way to quickly master the chassis than trying to "fight", as he's not going to get much damage done or anything else.

And, yes, every experienced player has some saved screenshots of high-damage runs with such mechs. Brag all you like, those are outliers or weird Elo issues, don't bother posting them here. Maybe you're super special and always get 400 damage matches with crappy spiders. I don't care. For the vast majority of players, that's absolutely not the case.

A 2 minute quick cap win nets them FAR more experience over time than longer matches where they can't contribute much of anything.

This. Also, since class matching was removed recently, some game outcomes are pretty much fixed.

If I see 4 lights, a hunchback, a dragon, a centurion and a heavy metal on my team, you can bet we'll be base capping, because odds are we're going to be seriously outclassed by a team of multiple Jagers, Phracts, 2 lights and 2-3 assaults. Getting everyone killed is next to no C-Bills or XP, at that point it's better to have a quick cap win.

Also, organised teams occasionally do a variant of this where one or two light mechs will cap the enemy point then run away before the cap is completed. People tend to go crazy on defense after you cap down 50% of their bar and will start running back towards base. If all run, the team's vanguard will shoot them in the back and they'll all die. If the slower heavies/assaults stay behind while the lights and fast mediums defend the base, the team will be split, which means they are completely outmatched and will likely lose. The only viable defenses against this tactic are cheese 3Ls who can defend a base against multiple attackers and win easily, and in a more common scenario, skilled medium/heavy/Spider players who know how to area-deny the attacking force so they can't charge properly.

[Redshift2k5]

You're also missing a factor. A 2-minute match gives much less rewards than a 10 minute match, but if you do nothing but 2-minute matches back to back you're reaching a potentially higher rewards per hour because you can cram those matches in very quickly back-to-back

[Konril]

This is what I know about what Assault pays:

Win/Loss/Tie: 25,000 c.
Team kill: -10,000 c * number of teammates killed.
Component destroyed: 2,500 c * number of components. Components are things like arms, legs, head, and 3 torso locations.
Enemy kill: 5,000 c * number of enemies killed
Kill assist: 7,500 c * number of enemies killed
Damage done: 25 * amount of damage done.
Spotting: 2,500 * number of enemies spotted. Spotting basically means an ally as attacked an enemy that you have targeted, but the ally can't directly see. Usually involves LRMs.
TAG or NARC: 2,500 * number of enemies tagged. Paid once per enemy. This applies when LRMs or Streak SRMs hit an enemy that you have tagged or narced.
Savior kill: 7,500 c * number of enemy kills. This is added to the normal kill or assist pay.
Defensive kill: 7,500 c * number of enemy kills.

Salvage bonus: based on the value of non-destroyed parts on enemy mech's killed. That means what you don't earn from components destroyed your whole team, including you, earns from salvage bonus on a win. Engines are typically the most expensive thing in a mech, so any mechs killed from leg or head destruction are usually worth a lot in salvage.

So basically what this means for your pocketbook, a 2 minute base rush will pay out 25,000. For a dawn out match where you can participate in killing the whole enemy team, even if in a minor role, 8 enemies * 7,500 c per enemy (and to be fair, an actual kill also comes with a component destruction bonus so it's going to be at least 7,500 c) is 60,000 c. Add to that 25,000 for the win, a salvage bonus somewhere between 30,000 and 60,000. That now up to 115,000 c pay at least, with more incoming from damage done, savior and defensive bonuses, and possibly even spotting or tag/narc.

Now honestly, I really don't think you can get 8 kills or assists every match. I know some builds that are capable of killing an enemy instantly, which would prevent any teammates from assisting. (Just don't miss.) But in all honesty, 2 minute capture "wins" don't pay any better than getting completely ROFLstomped. At least, as long as you don't get penalized for suicide. Although these capture wins are worth a good 425 xp compared to a mere 100 xp for a loss. So there is incentive to do it sometimes when still training with a new machine.

But as far as actual "math" is concerned, it seems to be a wash. A 2 minute capture win is worth 25,000. A 10 minute drawn out battle that ends in a one-on-one between the last two survivors is likely to be worth close to 100,000 for the loser of that final duel and 150,000 to the winner. Pretty much as long as you aren't goofing off, being a troll, or just spectating, you're getting paid for it. But which option is the most fun?