29 replies to this topic

[Noobzorz]

I know what answer you're looking for and you're not wrong. Because they are bad.

(Sorry you lost a match, btw).

[Harmin]

Neverfar, on 08 April 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

It's not losing a match that is a problem. I lose plenty. I actually get a kick out of close fights, or at least fights with a little back-and-forth to them. I don't like the fights where I am apparently the only one fighting.

The 7 other players probably see you as the suicidal maniac who rushes blindly forward and lowers the team strength needlessly.

[Davers]

No one wants to be the tank in a game without healers. Most PUGs don't care about the 'team'. It's all about personal stats. Can't have that KDR take a hit now can we?

[Helsbane]

I pilot scouts and support builds and even I shake my head at these folks.

The Awesome running for cover in the "I" line in frozen city at the first sign of enemy contact.

The Atlas that plays base guard till a light shows up, then backpedals till he's cut to pieces.

The Stalker that spends 98% of the game trying to sneak around and base cap at stock engine speed, on ALPINE!!!

I'm so glad I have other mechs so I don't have to spectate these idjits....

[Marcus Cvellus]

Maybe because there is so many AC/PPC/ERPPC boats out there that every shot is instapop for almost any mech, so they decided to take cover?

Edit: I am a light pilot, usually the guy that is waaay in front everyone else, but again, i can understand their reluctance to rush blindly.

Edited by Marcus Cvellus, 08 April 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Marcus Cvellus, on 08 April 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

Maybe because there is so many AC/PPC/ERPPC boats out there that every shot is instapop for almost any mech, so they decided to take cover?

Edit: I am a light pilot, usually the guy that is waaay in front everyone else, but again, i can understand their reluctance to rush blindly.

Marcus Cvellus, on 08 April 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

i can understand their reluctance to rush blindly.

This is the important part.

Do not rush blindly. Some matches you are best served by holding back and letting the other team make the first mistake. Other matches you need to force the enemy team to make a mistake by pushing at the right time. Some times you just get rolled.

But hanging back is usually a good idea, at least for a little while. But if *all* you do is hang back then you are as much a detriment to your team as the guy that charges headlong into destruction.

[Co Ward]

this is one of the most frustrating parts of puging. people are scared shitless of getting shot so they refuse to move up. if you dont move up the enemy gets the better positions so you get pinned and taken apart. and this happens so often i dont understand how people havent learned.

[Padic]

If you die first? Someone gives you crap.

If you die last? Someone gives you crap.

There's a lot of conflicting "advice" on how to play this game, and lots of players don't have the fundamentals to filter through the noise yet.

Part of the reason that people disagree on how to play the game is because the game is complicated. Raw aggression might work sometimes, but not always. Same deal with passivity.

[Royalewithcheese]

I think it depends on the mech in question. There are a variety of fast builds that will run in, hit stuff, run away, circle around, and do it again. In terms of completely running away from the enemy, I don't see that much, but I guess experience varies.

[TruePoindexter]

It's important to wait until the moment and the take it when it presents itself. Fast maneuvers can lead to big wins but usually lead to terrible tragedies. Remember that when you're advancing you're giving the enemy the opportunity to choose their response which may be to encircle and crush whoever's at the front. I've found it's better to wait until the battle truly begins. Only then does being bold pay off.

Putting it another way think of a game of MWO like a game of chess. You have your opening where both teams pick their lines of travel (either deliberately or accidentally) which define their overall strategy for the remainder of the game. Then you have the mid game where the real fight breaks out. This is where someone makes a move that breaks open the opening stand off getting things going. Finally you have the end game where most of the area has been cleared and resources are now strained and limited. If the game was a close one both teams are usually down to just a mech or two by the end. If it was a steam roll... well one team is definitely not standing anymore.

Edited by TruePoindexter, 08 April 2013 - 03:02 PM.

[Davers]

Udachi Kerensky, on 08 April 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

this is one of the most frustrating parts of puging. people are scared shitless of getting shot so they refuse to move up. if you dont move up the enemy gets the better positions so you get pinned and taken apart. and this happens so often i dont understand how people havent learned.

Because they can't communicate effectively. Also, by dropping solo there is no 'after battle report' about what went wrong and what went right. Tactics learned in one battle isn't translated into the next one. By the time it takes to type 'Well in one battle we tried this tactic and it worked well, lemme asplain it to you..." your team's Atlas has already marched past the drop ship.

[Zylo]

Neverfar, on 08 April 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

That's a funny little confirmation line from Mechwarrior 2 that pops up if you choose to exit the game. I needed a title for this post, so there it is.

Now, the point of this: Why do so many players hang back and more or less run away from enemy fire? I don't mean taking cover. I don't mean nesting in good LRM/sniper positions. I mean scattering in terror the moment a shot goes over their heads. You can see them on the tactical map: always facing anywhere but the enemy, usually until the end of the match where their until-then immaculate Heavy Metal is chased down and cut to pieces.

What is the reason behind this behavior? Is it a hope to pick off the enemy after they're softened up, K/D ratio intact? That doesn't seem to work: if the guys ahead of you are torn apart by a braver enemy force, there's not much left for you to do but die next.

I wonder if it's a 'tragedy of the commons' thing (look it up if you like): Everyone assumes the other guys will go in there and take the hits, and they'll get the glory if they abstain from combat until the end. So many do this, that 8-0 matches are getting more and more common. Yes, I've been on the winning side of 8-0s too. Doesn't mean they don't suck.

So, what's with the embracing of cowardice?

It's because this game rewards damage done more than anything. If the majority of the rewards came from the win rather than damage done or kill counts you would see less of this but you would see more AFK C-bill farmers. Lone wolf players either seem to rush off alone or they wait until enemies are distracted before they attack so they can do lots of damage while taking very little.

[aniviron]

Helsbane, on 08 April 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

I pilot scouts and support builds and even I shake my head at these folks.

The Awesome running for cover in the "I" line in frozen city at the first sign of enemy contact.

That awesome is me. My side torsos are roughly the size of an atlas each, and it takes two shots from a CTF-3D poptart to get through the armor (even skewed heavily to the front) and three to kill me. Even if I only take one shot and get away safely, when the brawl comes later everyone sees the deep orange torso armor and immediately targets it, leading to my death. In short: be glad that instead of going 'hur dur I love taking enemy fire' I choose to actually stay alive long enough to help the team.

[Noobzorz]

Neverfar, on 08 April 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

It's not losing a match that is a problem. I lose plenty. I actually get a kick out of close fights, or at least fights with a little back-and-forth to them. I don't like the fights where I am apparently the only one fighting.

I think I was not clear in my meaning.

I sympathize. It sucks when you have five dudes corner camp instead of circling around and getting dirty.

[Traigus]

I don't think new players realize that front/back armor is different, AND that back armor is less than front.

I've seen a lot of Atlas/Stalker mechs turn around and try to leg it behind a not really nearby building.

[Anemia]

I mostly pilot Atlai and thus generally lead charges and act as shield for my team mates (or at least a sponge). That does however require me to go in first which I don't mind at all, but if I'm being covered by enemy ECM I just cannot do that due to the fact that I don't know if my team will support me or not and I can't very well turn my back on the enemy just to keep track of my team. The fact that I don't enjoy the prospect of running headlong into the enemy team alone doesn't make me a coward, just a decently clever *******.

It might just be me but I think the ECM is a big reason why people act defensively in those kind of situations. Knowing the location of your friends is so incredibly vital at least in pugs where you can't just ask.

[Shumabot]

No respawns and overly long time between matches.

[Royalewithcheese]

Traigus, on 08 April 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

I don't think new players realize that front/back armor is different, AND that back armor is less than front.

I've seen a lot of Atlas/Stalker mechs turn around and try to leg it behind a not really nearby building.

That actually works, sometimes, because those mechs back up very slowly and tend to get focused. Granted, it's something you can do exactly once per match and that leaves you weak for the rest of the match, but it's better than getting focused down.

[verybad]

It's a video game, there's no such thing as cowardiceor bravery in a video game.

Some people play with more caution than others. simple as that.

[Brethgar]

I find it sad when I am a the top of the EoR board in my Commando and the bottom four guys together total the damage I did