95 replies to this topic

[OneEyed Jack]

buttmonkey, on 10 April 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

i have to say it ****** me off no end when people just rush in and get killed.
what somepeople call hiding in a huddle others call making a plan.

many times have my team on ts been sitting there in cover calling targets and making a gameplan when boom, some douche just runs out and get face *****.
and we are sitting there like, great just throw your mech away, not only that but thanks for giving away our possition dumb arse.

if your in a light or something then why would you be hiding with the heavies unless your a support mech.
use your brain op, buy a light with ecm and be a scout ffs, help your team, they are waiting in cover for a target to lrm or snipe or some valid info on enemy possitions so fill that gap dont just charge in head first, it wont help you or your team.

If you're on comms and making a plan..SAY SOMETHING. Everyone else doesn't just automatically know what you're doing, and from outside your comms it looks like you're just standing there with your thumb up your arse.

That said, I know I'm occasionally... overly aggressive in my tactics. But no one is suggesting a frikkin' banzai charge. On the other hand, hiding there and waiting for the enemy to dictate the terms of the engagement is tantamount to handing them the match.

An organized team taking the time to figure out what they're going to do before doing it is one thing... if they actually do something. What the OP is referring to is the ones that sit there and hide while the team get's picked off one by one, and continue hiding the whole match. The enemy will eventually push around a position and start taking your flank apart, then sweep your whole team, even if no one had the balls to actually die fighting. It happens all the time, and if you tell me you haven't seen it, I name you liar.

So stop with the broken record crap of accusing anyone who wants to try to win, as opposed to trying not to die, of charging blindly forward.

[DarkDevilDancer]

Well you know the saying fools rush in, using cover to get into your preferred range is just good common sense not cowardice.

Not everyone has the aiming ability to snipe, just like not everyone's suited to brawling.

The group's that win are the ones that stick together and cover their assets.

[Joseph Mallan]

GHQCommander, on 10 April 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

I think 3 out of 5 matches I play, my team or both teams are scared or something. I hoped MechWarrior Online would attract the type of player who can think fast but I'm sensing a lot of old timers behind the keyboard, really taking their time and really worried about losing a mech for a few minutes.

For me its ruining the game because I'm the guy who takes the enemy on hard. I move fast and I think fast. Strategy includes moving fast and attacking. Yet I constantly see teams holding back on a terrain line.

Like the match I just played, my entire team stopped advancing on to the high ground. Where we could have sat taking shots at the other teams heads as they pop out. The other teams weapons wouldn't hit us so frequently because they are behind cover. DOH. It's a sound tactic yet my hid behind a ridge and the other team hid behind a ridge.

WTF?!

Please consider your entire teams movement in this game. Do not huddle together behind a rock or a ridge. Your weapons arc needs to be clear if you want to hit and you need to be able to see your target. Common sense. There is no point ***** footing around as if you can win by doing nothing but keeping out of the way.

Why rush in and kill one Mech when we can wait and kill em all! Your common sense dies quickly in combat. Fighting from a superior position is also common sense. If you don' have that, then taking cover to conserve your losses is also common sense. Armchair generals... gotta love 'em.

[Mahnmut]

More often than not, those who seem like they are "sitting back in fear" are actually waiting for intel from scouts to decide on their plan of attack.

There is nothing wrong with going on the offensive but just make sure you communicate this with your team and don't just charge in expecting others to follow for no good reason.

Edited by Mahnmut, 10 April 2013 - 04:10 AM.

[Taemien]

OP, what time do you typically play and see this? I've heard players say its a regional playstyle, but I'm still looking to see how true this actually is.

[Enigmos]

GHQCommander, on 10 April 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

...I'm sensing a lot of old timers behind the keyboard, really taking their time and really worried about losing a mech for a few minutes...

Would you please wipe your runny little nose before coming in here to whine?

[Erasus Magnus]

Thomas Covenant, on 10 April 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

I think that is something that was lost when R&R was taken away, justifiable fear, which can be really thrilling. Now it would pay to bullhorn every mission, but to me that doesn't feel real, and I still roleplay as if my mech is valuable. Which drives people like you, understandably, crazy.

And I'm not old, I'm 24.

pretty much this. since there is almost no drawback to just charging into the enemy, putting out damage like a boss and dying in a ball of fire.
even in terms of xp and mc bills gained, people charging in alone in a brawling atlas most of the time come out pretty good in terms of exp and mc bills gained because damage is vastly overrated imho. they contributed almost nothing to the game, (some damage here and there) and yet get exp like they were the special snowflake of the match.

MentalPatient, on 10 April 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

Several times I have been engaging an enemy with my team mates, we see a moment to corner the enemy out in the open, charge in, guns blazing, only to have them retreat on me like a bunch of little *******, leaving me in the lurch. Seriously, only 1 in 10 players I encounter even have the slightest inkling about team mate support. They are probably more concerned about their KDR than helping other players. It's shameful.

Having in game team based comms will assist in making the more selfish players aware of when they can help their team mates, even when it's bleeding obvious. If they still refuse to team play, they should expect much snubbing of noses when CW comes around.

dunno. they might just misread the situation. pug games often derange in fights at multiple places. perhaps YOU misread the situation and charged in, although there is already an engagement that is much more important than yours, so everyone just turns his back and joins the other fight.

[Thundercles]

I run into the same thing quite often.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for making a plan and using terrain advantageously. But this isn't trench warfare, and at some point all that 'making a plan' has to you know, MAKE a plan other than "Let's stand here and hope the other team has a high rate of congenital heart defects." The thing about holding 'advantageous terrain' is that you have to be prepared when an opportunity presents itself.

Example: A game on Alpine.
Typical drop, multiple assaults and heavies... me in a Treb, and a pair of lights - commandos, I think. Pretty standard axis of attack/defense - enemy team coming for us across the bowl in the middle, using 'their' ridgeline as cover while our team uses the antennae hill. The commandos loop south and tag the enemy base to disrupt, half the enemy force peels off, and the lights call for the charge on those left behind. What happens? Our mechs pull back and hunker down, refusing to press the advantage and preferring the 'safe' bet of plinking away, squandering the opportunity. They patiently waited until the enemy finished off the commandos (and me, silly as I was, trying to stick to the only plan presented) and regrouped, THEN charged into the open in the face of an almost full team of guns.

Long story short:
Terrain advantage means nothing if you don't press forward when the opportunity presents itself. I can't speak to the more organized teams, I'm mostly PUG-ing it right now, but the playerbase I run into is exceptionally timid. When I meet an aggressive team that's willing to take a little fire in exchange for savaging an enemy formation, those are the 8-0, or 8-2 games - aggressive team winning.

[OneEyed Jack]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 April 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

Why rush in and kill one Mech when we can wait and kill em all! Your common sense dies quickly in combat. Fighting from a superior position is also common sense. If you don' have that, then taking cover to conserve your losses is also common sense.

Fighting from a superior position requires having a superior position, first of all. In a game without actual entrenchment or fortifications, where most of the mechs have to be plainly visible to fire, there aren't many, and most of the ones people think are ( such as the landing pad i River City ), are no such thing.

If you'd bother learning to read you'd notice no one has suggested that a superior position is a bad thing. It's the ones cowering in positions where they don't even know where/if the enemy is coming until they'r getting bull-rushed from a flank, that are the problem. I'll try it like this, since people seem to be having trouble noticing it:

There is a difference between using cover tactically and hiding in fear. If you don't know the difference.... you're probably hiding.

Joseph Mallan, on 10 April 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

Armchair generals... gotta love 'em.

Seriously? Do you practice making yourself look like a stupid, pompous arse, or does it just come naturally. Unless you can show me the stars on your shoulders, that's the dumbest thing it's ever been my displeasure to read from a forum blowhard.

[Rufus Jager]

The games I've participated in have almost allways played out with at least 2 player in assault mech just standing there behind cover not moving not daring to engage the enemy lest they damage their precious Atlas, also Ive noticed alot of people take the high ground and just fire at enemies on oposite hills not even moving after they have taken 4 hits to the center torso rear of their Atlas from an AC20.
However I've ran more than a few mechwarrior tabletop games where players have gone so far as
to compleltely ignore the lance commanders orders and hide their hunchback up a tree in a lake because they may have to colour circles in on their mech sheet and it wont look pretty anymore.

A there are many people in this world that fear damage as its their only weakness the best way to get on a good team is to join a merc or house unit

Edited by Rufus Jager, 10 April 2013 - 04:45 AM.

[Appogee]

GHQCommander, on 10 April 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

I hoped MechWarrior Online would attract the type of player who can think fast but I'm sensing a lot of old timers behind the keyboard, really taking their time and really worried about losing a mech for a few minutes.

I hoped MWO would attract the kind of player who doesn't tell other players how they have to play.

GHQCommander, on 10 April 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

I'm the guy who takes the enemy on hard. I move fast and I think fast.

And die fast. Well done, if doing damage quickly and then dying quickly is what you consider success.

You make your choice. Others make theirs.

If you're the designated commander and your strategy is that everyone charge, then fine. But otherwise, people will use their particular skills, and what works for them, relative to their mech and the map and the battle status, to play the way they want to.

Rushing into the combined fire of the opposing team is but one potential strategy.

GHQCommander, on 10 April 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

Please consider your entire teams movement in this game.

Says the guy complaining that everyone is executing a different strategy to him. Isn't that kind of Ironic...?

Edited by Appogee, 10 April 2013 - 04:52 AM.

[Silentium]

Nobody will remember how awesome you looked as you were focused down. Getting smoked to stroke your e-peen is not going to win the match. Of course, as I learned this morning, neither will popping put where a laser stalker expects you to :-p

[Blood Skar]

I was about to reply to this thread with a similar thing to what Appogee has said above. I'll just say i agree with everything Appogee said.

I'd also like to add that the OP is Ageist.

I'm a 40yo guy - i'm guessing that falls into your 'old timer' category...i believe i have the reactions of a rattlesnake. Honed from many many games. FPS's, MMO's etc etc You name it i've played it - so why would that make me 'slow and worried about losing my mech' meh..

Meet me ingame and we'll see how slow you think my reactions are
The guy who was on the recieving end of my reaction spin, AC20 shot that hit him dead centre and downed his mech, wont be thinking i'm a 'slow, old timer' i can tell you that.

Edited by Blood Skar, 10 April 2013 - 05:02 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

OneEyed Jack, on 10 April 2013 - 04:43 AM, said:

Seriously? Do you practice making yourself look like a stupid, pompous arse, or does it just come naturally. Unless you can show me the stars on your shoulders, that's the dumbest thing it's ever been my displeasure to read from a forum blowhard.

2nd Bat/5th Marine
Echo Co

"Being Rambo gets you killed."

Quote every Sgt I served with.

Thank you come again.

[Drenzul]

So basically you are rushing into the enemy line like an ***** and complaining that your team-mates are actually using cover and terrain to maximise their abilities instead of also rushing in like an *****.

Seriously, if you are rushing in, are you wondering why everyone else isn't?
Is it perhaps because rushing in like that is a completely moronic thing to do?

Stick with your team, if you are a pure-short range build then your job is to escort the longer-ranged mechs and guard them till the enemy gets close, then engage, rushing in just because 'its my optimal range' is not a good tactics, its just you thinking of you and only you instead of thinking of the team.

[Salis777]

Always remember pugging a Counterstrike game back in the day. Euro hours, bunch of French. Throw a flashbang into the T on Dust, and rush. No one follows. WW2.

[buttmonkey]

OneEyed Jack, on 10 April 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

If you're on comms and making a plan..SAY SOMETHING. Everyone else doesn't just automatically know what you're doing, and from outside your comms it looks like you're just standing there with your thumb up your arse.

That said, I know I'm occasionally... overly aggressive in my tactics. But no one is suggesting a frikkin' banzai charge. On the other hand, hiding there and waiting for the enemy to dictate the terms of the engagement is tantamount to handing them the match.

An organized team taking the time to figure out what they're going to do before doing it is one thing... if they actually do something. What the OP is referring to is the ones that sit there and hide while the team get's picked off one by one, and continue hiding the whole match. The enemy will eventually push around a position and start taking your flank apart, then sweep your whole team, even if no one had the balls to actually die fighting. It happens all the time, and if you tell me you haven't seen it, I name you liar.

So stop with the broken record crap of accusing anyone who wants to try to win, as opposed to trying not to die, of charging blindly forward.

i do try to communicate but typing is obviously hard when controlling your mech, and every body knows the ingame voip needs addressing, fix it and il have no problem letting you in on the plan.

and the "broken record" as you say will continue to be played for as long as stupid people do stupid things like, you guessed it, charging forwards because they dont want to wait over 10 seconds without pew pewing something. i blame the impatients of people on a number of things including but not limited to, too much fizzy drink, too much sugar in general, too many COD style games (which mwo will never be), ADD etc etc.

that being said i do agree that sometimes it seems like cattle waiting to be slaughtered and yes i have seen it so no need to call me a liar but that is rare in my experience.

another thing for you to consider is the fact that there may be no alternative. an example is the shambles that is elo and ecm.
i have in matches no joke, with a group of med/heavies up against a team of 7 assaults and 1 light.

can you blame people for just hiding in these situations? what else can you do? win?!! lol, cap is about the only thing you can do and if you give away your possition then they are gonna follow you and you cant cap.

if a team has no ecm at all then the only way to stay off radar is to avoid line of sight which again means hiding.

there are many reasons to hide in mwo, but hiding for the whole match is kinda pointless as there is no longer r and r to think about.

having said that there are VERY FEW reasons to just charge out into the enemy giving away your teams possition and putting them down a mech so you can start to understand why people are not very stmpathetic when it to chargers.

[Dr Killinger]

Sounds like you're playing with smart people. Running out into the open just to be blown to pieces within seconds is the problem I have a lot of the time.

Also, I'm not an old timer.

[Lyrik]

GHQCommander, on 10 April 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

For me its ruining the game because I'm the guy who takes the enemy on hard. I move fast and I think fast. Strategy includes moving fast and attacking. Yet I constantly see teams holding back on a terrain line.

Your Elo is so high that you are playing with the l33t competitive pilots from RHOD.They like sniping and hiding. Most borring matches I ever watched.
The NGNG guys and Garth are really bad pilots but at least you have some actions in their streams xD

[OneEyed Jack]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 April 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

2nd Bat/5th Marine
Echo Co

"Being Rambo gets you killed."

Quote every Sgt I served with.

Thank you come again.

I see nothing there about stars, so my comment stands. You are an "Armchair General" as much as anyone here. The difference is you've, presumably, had some tactical training, whatever your rank, so you should really know better. While being Rambo may get you killed, I've never known a Marine before to suggest hiding in a hole and waiting for them to come get you.