115 replies to this topic

[Corwin Vickers]

FerretGR, on 11 April 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

When I say fast I mean fast. I like lights, Cicadas, fast mediums (ie. the fast Cent and Treb), Catapults or Jagers with 300 engines and speed tweak (speed in the 80's), etc. It's all personal preference, but for me, 62 is a slog. Stalker shares the "walking through mud" issue that I have with Atlai

I have Jenners, Spiders, a raven and a commando so I like the speed too. In the middle I have the 1 energy hunchback, then it's cats for heavies. On top I have Atlas's and stalkers.

I finished my spiders during the double xp weekend and it was far less painful than it had been. Not being able to deal much damage really hurts your XP gain.

But when it comes down to it I might run my Founders Atlas for the bonus but usually it's one of the three stalkers. 2 are set up as brawlers and the F has 5 LgLas. Pinpoint and reasonably cool while still having good speed (for an assault.) Large lasers are pretty versitile and you can hit light mechs easily.

I have my atlas setup with 2 ERPPC, 2 MdLas, and a gauss which is pretty cool and carries lots of ammo and the range is very nice however I think I'll change it back to 4 MdLas, 2 ASRM6, and 2 UAC5s. The 2 ACs are good enough for long range and it really deals the damage when it gets close. I used to run an AC20 but the UACs just deal insane damage sometimes and I have great luck counting the reload in my head when I'm at long range so I don't jam too often unless I am spamming up close.

They need to flip the Atlas's arms up like a Dasher. That would make a huge difference.

Rogue Jedi, on 11 April 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

the stalker is faster due to it being lighter but if any assault comes up against a single fast Mech (anything lighter than 45 tons) one on one it usually looses. having enough firepower to kill a light in 2-3 shots is useless if you cannot hit the light

One assault vs a light? I will win in an assault. I don't have the problem with hitting light mechs that so many assault pilots seem to have. You just slow down so you get faster turning, you use your twist to catch up to them if you don't have enough raw turning and if you have neither you spin so that you are leading them for that 1 second you need. Sometimes walking backwards a little helps to put them out of position if you are having troubles aiming low enough. Also, you probably want this fight to take place on relatively flat ground.

[p00k]

Corwin Vickers, on 11 April 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

They need to flip the Atlas's arms up like a Dasher. That would make a huge difference.

no karate kid atlases please

Corwin Vickers, on 11 April 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

One assault vs a light? I will win in an assault. I don't have the problem with hitting light mechs that so many assault pilots seem to have. You just slow down so you get faster turning, you use your twist to catch up to them if you don't have enough raw turning and if you have neither you spin so that you are leading them for that 1 second you need. Sometimes walking backwards a little helps to put them out of position if you are having troubles aiming low enough. Also, you probably want this fight to take place on relatively flat ground.

not against a good light. a good light will know to run right up against you, and without collisions, in an atlas you can't aim low enough to hit him with your torso weapons, and he's low enough that you can't really see him to accurately hit him with arm mounts; he'll be hiding under minimap/dashboard. stalker it depends a bit more on what you have in the arm mounts, but a light can usually still get right up on you and under most of your weapons, at the very least disrupting convergence on arm mounts

[LackofCertainty]

p00k, on 11 April 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

not against a good light. a good light will know to run right up against you, and without collisions, in an atlas you can't aim low enough to hit him with your torso weapons, and he's low enough that you can't really see him to accurately hit him with arm mounts; he'll be hiding under minimap/dashboard. stalker it depends a bit more on what you have in the arm mounts, but a light can usually still get right up on you and under most of your weapons, at the very least disrupting convergence on arm mounts

You're exaggerating. A good light pilot is a nightmare, but 2 arm mount LL's (which any atlas variant can mount) is plenty to cut off a leg. Sure, they'll delay you for a long *** time, but it takes a helluva lot longer for a light to cut through Atlas-level armor, than it does for an Atlas to cut off a light's leg. If you can't hit a light at all as an assault, you're doing something very wrong. (especially with the ridiculous arm manuverability atlases get)

Edited by LackofCertainty, 11 April 2013 - 03:59 PM.

[Ricama]

I find it actually has a much tighter reverse-turn rate but yes it handles like a poorly thrown brick when walking forward. I do like the ability to shoot sideways with the arms and the Gauss has always been my favourite weapon so yay ballistic slots. It is not for everyone though I agree.

[Vermaxx]

You take Atlas for the death head. Stalker looks like some ******** satyr mech - it is supposed to have forward canted legs...although that wouldn't make it more attractive.

The Atlas was one of the first mechs, and generally made up for a lack of hardpoints with the fact that it was the only assault mech. They seem to have adopted a policy of trying to invalidate old mechs with new ones, and the Stalker has some clear advantages over the Atlas.

Still, a Stalker ISN'T an Atlas, and it cannot carry 100 tons.

[Teralitha]

Inappropriate1191, on 10 April 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

The atlas... is not a mech for everybody. Many people make the mistake of thinking, that just because the atlas is meant to be played like a sledgehammer, that it's not a thinking-man's robot. It's slow speed and huge profile make it require a very strategic mindset, and rather conservative tactics. For instance, you have to really pay attention to what your team is doing, even using lighter mechs to screen for you. You have to be very careful with the push, because being the slow, hard to handle beast that it is, once you begin the push, you're committed, no turning back. For good or ill.

I will agree, that the atlas' hardpoints are not well thought-out. It's usually utterly worthless to have more than 2 ballistic points on most mechs especially in the same spot. Most mechs under 85 tons have no reason to have even 2 ballistic points, for the most part. The atlas D and DDC have 2 ballistics in one area, but are clearly meant to wield the biggest, baddest cannon you can fit on the thing (I will say, however, dual Ultra-5's are a very good thing for an atlas. It's just that you're usually better off with AC/20 or Gauss). So, it's not always easy to get a balanced, winning combination of arms with an atlas.

However, when you can get those factors right, the atlas wrecks things like as though God himself came down and smited your enemies like the heathen scum they are.

Recap: Play conservatively. Keep in mind that you're a big, slow target. Put the biggest honkin' guns you can on it. Use teamwork. Screen with lighter mechs. Save yourself to be that sledgehammer blow in the end.

Oh, and last, but not least. Don't run an XL engine.

Someday, the atlas may be able to carry 2 light guass in those slots. I wish one of the atlas varients had a ballistic slot on the left arm, like the MW4 atlas did.....

Edited by Teralitha, 11 April 2013 - 07:14 PM.

[p00k]

LackofCertainty, on 11 April 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

You're exaggerating. A good light pilot is a nightmare, but 2 arm mount LL's (which any atlas variant can mount) is plenty to cut off a leg. Sure, they'll delay you for a long *** time, but it takes a helluva lot longer for a light to cut through Atlas-level armor, than it does for an Atlas to cut off a light's leg. If you can't hit a light at all as an assault, you're doing something very wrong. (especially with the ridiculous arm manuverability atlases get)

i've spent a good amount of time in atlases, and use LL in most of them. again, 1v1, with no support on either side, the light need only stay in physical contact with you, and you won't be able to leg him. your arm mount lasers will hit torso. again he's also short enough that you can't actually see him, you have to estimate his position by the top of the targeting box that you can see. he's also not just standing in front of you up against you, but basically running a tight circle staying in contact with you. he can, in the meantime, leg you easily.

see picture:


not only can you not tell where exactly your 'o' reticule is, but incidentally if you aim as far down as you can on that commando, you hit his arms and torso.


of course, that's why as an assault you don't run off by yourself. so when a light tries to hug you other mechs are shooting him, mechs that can bring big torso mounts to bear

[Deathlike]

I suck in the Atlas-RS. The other Atlai (?), I'm fine with (didn't bother with the K due to it just being inferior). The arms on an Atlas drive me nuts, so any attempts for me to "snipe" with ER PPCs end in failure... especially when it comes to hills.

Otherwise, it's not as bad as the OP makes it out to be. There are chassis specific issues that make the Atlas difficult to pilot, but when done right, it's pretty solid.

[sC4r]

p00k, on 11 April 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

i've spent a good amount of time in atlases, and use LL in most of them. again, 1v1, with no support on either side, the light need only stay in physical contact with you, and you won't be able to leg him. your arm mount lasers will hit torso. again he's also short enough that you can't actually see him, you have to estimate his position by the top of the targeting box that you can see. he's also not just standing in front of you up against you, but basically running a tight circle staying in contact with you. he can, in the meantime, leg you easily.

see picture:


not only can you not tell where exactly your 'o' reticule is, but incidentally if you aim as far down as you can on that commando, you hit his arms and torso.


of course, that's why as an assault you don't run off by yourself. so when a light tries to hug you other mechs are shooting him, mechs that can bring big torso mounts to bear

dont know about this... sometimes just by assuming he is looking at my cannon i just fire it (regardless where i aim now) and it WILL hit him to torso he is not that short to avoid your cannon (only exception is if you are looking into sky O.o)
all you gotta do is follow the IFF/target indicator

and no a good light pilot will not sidestep, circle or anything like that a good atlas pilot on open field... and in some enviroment just stick your back to the wall... eventually light will go down
but again asuming 1v1

edit: and if you got felled by that commando in the picture or had problems with it ... dont pilot atlas PLEASE

Edited by sC4r, 11 April 2013 - 11:09 PM.

[Corwin Vickers]

Training grounds.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

jeffsw6, on 11 April 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

If you want to pop-tart, yes, a Stalker is better suited to that style of play than an Atlas. Pop-tarting in an Atlas is usually foolish.

Definition of a Pop-Tart: A Jump jet equipped mech that jumps into the air from behind cover and fires on targets.

NOT: Any Assault mech, A boat of PPC's, or anything other than the above stated definition.

[p00k]

sC4r, on 11 April 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

edit: and if you got felled by that commando in the picture or had problems with it ... dont pilot atlas PLEASE

yes because the fact that he's "no pilot" clearly doesn't indicate i'm in training grounds

not the sharpest knife in the drawer huh

[Rhent]

FerretGR, on 10 April 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

I think it's cute when Stalker pilots think they can brawl with my Atlas.

A 5 LL Stalker carves out a SRM AC/20 brawler Atlas one on one all the time.

[Vrekgar]

MisterFiveSeven, on 10 April 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Having mastered the stalker, I expected the atlas to be bigger, slower, and have more firepower.

I was mistaken.

Its turning radius is abysmal. Its turning speed is worse. It has restrictive hard points. I can't stand its ridiculous gorilla arms turn every mole hill into complete cover for your target.

The way weapon balance has been tweaked means that you will always be able to carry more weapons than you can effectively use (think crits and double vs single hear sinks in the context of faster fire rates).

Moral of the story is that tweaks to the TT numbers have unintended consequences (I am not a zealot said please don't flame) and TT values are not perfectly balanced (no one ever customized a mech to carry 4 ac2's lol) but short of the ddc, the Atlas is worthless. The stalker is better in every way (hardpoints, mechanical response, heat efficiency).

What do you think?

They are designed for two different roles.

The stalker is a balls out gun laden machine. Its supposed to be hot, noisy, and rude. It has fantastic mounts for its weapons and it has lots of them. However, its entire torso is very exposed and it cant aim its arms side to side. Its also a huge ******* to move around and gets stuck easily on many things.

The atlas on the other hand has better armor and is designed with a smaller footprint. Its taller and the torso's are more difficult to hit when its manuvering. Its a giant slab of armor with guns strapped to it. Its not about how hard it can hit, its about how hard it can GET hit and still keep moving forward. Its the pinnacle of the assault line for a reason.

[Haragh]

Love them. Both have their fun moments. Well as I have liked many mechs in all weight classes.
Atlas with its ballistic/energy/missile combos and Stalker as LRM boat, energy or energy+srm brawler.

[hercules1981]

the way i look at the whole stalker vs atlas thing is this.
Stalker has better offence.
Atlas has better defence.
so that being said just like in pro sports good offence wins games good defence wins championships.
the atlas vs stallker 1 on 1 altlas should win just because of the better defence and that being the abillity it has to get its arms in the line of fire to block shots and of course the higher armor factor and i no the distance is a big factor in this as well. thats my take anyway. And just to b clear i love both the stalker and atlas my 2 favorites for sure.

Edited by hercules1981, 12 April 2013 - 11:12 PM.