71 replies to this topic

[Target Rich]

Been playing MWO for about a month now...

I have two computers...My desktop sits at home...with it's NVIDA card and all the nice bells and whistles... And I get to share it...with the rest of the family..

My second computer is a laptop...and I play gaming between breaks between classes and lunch..
Before the Heavy Metal patch...I could play the beta on both...yea my laptop has an unsupported Intel Graphic processor built into the Toshiba mother board...but I could still lob missiles and play some basic dance of death.

Heavy Metal patch has slowed the graphic refresh frame down to the level that I can literally count each frame....so the game is now unplayable on my laptop...

That severely restricts my gameplay time now...and brings up a key issue here.

Virtually 80 percent of the available PC market base is just like my Toshiba laptop in terms of graphic processing capability... The processor is integrated into the card... If I want to play MWO on a laptop...I will have to shell out about $2-3 THOUSAND dollars for a new higher end alienware/dell laptop with high end integrated graphic processing...

This is for this game only...I can play every other game that matters to me...and I play a bunch...on that laptop...abet at the bottom range of the game graphics...but I can still have fun.

Big question here...marketing wise.:

This game currently has rather large graphic processing requirements...with no basic level whatsoever... That's great for the very small and obsessive community of dedicated mecha nuts who spend their time obsessing on whether they will be purchasing a 5 k triple or dual screen setup...or some other nut case crap...

But the basic question remains...how can any MMP game hope to succeed when its very structure automatically excludes 80 plus percent of its potential market up front.... and given the restricted abet fanatical appeal of mecha...probably only 20 percent of that remaining 20 percent that can even play the game....will probably shell out the bucks for the released game anyway. That equation results in a 5 percent best possible market share...which is a guaranteed recipe for a mickey mouse failed niche game..

The solution is to rethink this game's basic concept...yes its nice to play the super spectacular graphic effects for the nerd gamers playing the 3k computers....but you ALSO desparately need to provide a lower but FUNCTIONAL graphic end to the remaining 80 frigging percent of the available market that you have excluded by going high end graphics...

That is not "bitching".....its basic and I mean VERY BASIC MARKET SHARE ANALYSIS!!!

[Target Rich]

Oh...btw...I have played battletech since the 70's and have played MW1, MW1 Crescent Hawk's Revenge, MW2, beta tested MW3, MW4, MC1, MC2, and played MA1 and 2, and Chromehouds on the XBOX 360 until they closed the server on us.

All of the previous MW games in the PC environment suffered from the same marketing default...the game developers all went in for high end graphic design requiring exceptional graphic cards, display, and processing capability that restricted that game's availability to the top 20 percent or so of the available market. I know this because I pointed out this exact same problem in EACH of the betas...was ignored...and watch each game go through initial success and quick death because of the artificial market limitations imposed by the high end graphic requirements.

What I am saying here is that the developers need to seriously take a page from World of Warcraft, Warhammer...and other MMP games....all now have outstand graphic high ends that take advantage of the super builds...but they also have ensured that normal PC's can play their games....Look at their market shares...MOST OF THEIR PLAYER BASE IS ON LOW END MACHINES!!!

That's a reality...take a lesson from 20 years of Mecha game history...avoid the same mistakes and broaden MMO's market base by ALSO providing a low end but playable graphic base to this game...

That is not a request...its a demonstrated key to this game's future viability!

[Fut]

Target Rich, on 09 April 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

This game currently has rather large graphic processing requirements...with no basic level whatsoever... That's great for the very small and obsessive community of dedicated mecha nuts who spend their time obsessing on whether they will be purchasing a 5 k triple or dual screen setup...or some other nut case crap...

Although I'm not sure if there's really anything that can be done about it, I agree that it really sucks that most computers out there can't run this game. I've got 5 buddies who are gamers, and none of them have computers that can run MWO.
It seems like I've lucked out though, as my computer crapped-out on me several months ago, and I decided to build myself a beast of a rig. I found out about MWO after that, and the game runs great.

[Kdogg788]

I run the game fully maxed out on an MSI laptop, but it did cost in the region of $1300. It runs fully maxed out with a resolution setting a little over midway. $2,000 to $3,000 is a little excessive but to run the game well on a laptop you do need a capable machine so I'd expect to drop at least $600 to $700 on it to run at basic settings, and even at that, the laptops in that pricerange are mainly aimed at business users and not gamers. That said, they really need to work on optimizing this game. I'm not the only one who has noticed the game runs your machine much hotter than any other, and I run Battlefield 3, GTA IV, and Skyrim (fully modded out) maxed as well.

-k

[Juree Riggd]

Or buy a budget gaming rig from your local computer store for $600...

[Syllogy]

Target Rich, on 09 April 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

The processor is integrated into the card... If I want to play MWO on a laptop...I will have to shell out about $2-3 THOUSAND dollars for a new higher end alienware/dell laptop with high end integrated graphic processing...

That is not "bitching".....its basic and I mean VERY BASIC MARKET SHARE ANALYSIS!!!

Uh... my $1600 MSI runs MWO at max setting just fine, but thanks for trying.

[MaddMaxx]

Two points.

For 2-3 grand you could buy 3-4 high end Gaming rigs in today's market.

Really? 80% of the Market. How low should they go? Should little Billy in his Moms basement on a 5 years old laptop over a 56K modem be accounted for?

It would seem prudent to await the next Patch to see if they have found the cause of this current anomaly. When they do, you will no longer be in the poor 80% tile any further.

[Syllogy]

Also, when you say "Market Share", you are not differentiating the "Market" of "PC Owners" from the "Demographic" of "PC Gamers"

[Kdogg788]

The game is also very CPU dependent. If you're running a 4 or 5 year old Toshiba you said, laptop, and it's got a single core processor of dubious speed and quality, it will not run very well. Most laptops these days unless you're buying the cheapest of the cheap at Walmart come with at least an i3 stock.

-k

[Dakkath]

I do agree they need to take a few steps back on content and focus their creative energies on fixing the performance bugs. FPS issues have been staggering lately AND have been around since Closed Beta.

That's my opinion of the performance issue.

[Syllogy]

Dakkath, on 09 April 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

I do agree they need to take a few steps back on content and focus their creative energies on fixing the performance bugs. FPS issues have been staggering lately AND have been around since Closed Beta.

That's my opinion of the performance issue.

While there might be a short list of guys that could move from content to bug fixing, ham-stringing new content wouldn't help solve bugs.

Even further, the sections of code that are a problem can be extremely small, and only one programmer can work on one section of code at a time, effectively bottle-necking any effort to fix one specific bug.

[WarHippy]

Target Rich, on 09 April 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Been playing MWO for about a month now...

I have two computers...My desktop sits at home...with it's NVIDA card and all the nice bells and whistles... And I get to share it...with the rest of the family..

My second computer is a laptop...and I play gaming between breaks between classes and lunch..
Before the Heavy Metal patch...I could play the beta on both...yea my laptop has an unsupported Intel Graphic processor built into the Toshiba mother board...but I could still lob missiles and play some basic dance of death.

Heavy Metal patch has slowed the graphic refresh frame down to the level that I can literally count each frame....so the game is now unplayable on my laptop...

That severely restricts my gameplay time now...and brings up a key issue here.

Virtually 80 percent of the available PC market base is just like my Toshiba laptop in terms of graphic processing capability... The processor is integrated into the card... If I want to play MWO on a laptop...I will have to shell out about $2-3 THOUSAND dollars for a new higher end alienware/dell laptop with high end integrated graphic processing...

This is for this game only...I can play every other game that matters to me...and I play a bunch...on that laptop...abet at the bottom range of the game graphics...but I can still have fun.

Big question here...marketing wise.:

This game currently has rather large graphic processing requirements...with no basic level whatsoever... That's great for the very small and obsessive community of dedicated mecha nuts who spend their time obsessing on whether they will be purchasing a 5 k triple or dual screen setup...or some other nut case crap...

But the basic question remains...how can any MMP game hope to succeed when its very structure automatically excludes 80 plus percent of its potential market up front.... and given the restricted abet fanatical appeal of mecha...probably only 20 percent of that remaining 20 percent that can even play the game....will probably shell out the bucks for the released game anyway. That equation results in a 5 percent best possible market share...which is a guaranteed recipe for a mickey mouse failed niche game..

The solution is to rethink this game's basic concept...yes its nice to play the super spectacular graphic effects for the nerd gamers playing the 3k computers....but you ALSO desparately need to provide a lower but FUNCTIONAL graphic end to the remaining 80 frigging percent of the available market that you have excluded by going high end graphics...

That is not "bitching".....its basic and I mean VERY BASIC MARKET SHARE ANALYSIS!!!

This is some of the most condescending crap I have ever read. The fact you can't even get your point across without spewing insults at people is pretty telling.

As for the 80% of the market not running graphics cards for gaming that is probably true, but it is because they are business computers or computers people use to check facebook and e-mail. These are computers that are not going to be playing anyway. So expecting games to be scaled back so it covers all of those is a fools errand. If you want more of this 80% market make a browser game for Mechwarrior that plays and looks like Angry Birds.

As for price of a gaming computer or laptop try looking into it. It isn't as much as you think. You can get a nice desktop rig with monitor for $1000 and you can get a laptop that will play MWO well for $1400. Well below your 2-3k statement. http://www.newegg.co...N82E16834230592
My laptop is 2 years old and I paid $1200 for it and it still plays MWO fine, but I bought it knowing what it was going to be used for.

[Apnu]

Target Rich, on 09 April 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Been playing MWO for about a month now...

I have two computers...My desktop sits at home...with it's NVIDA card and all the nice bells and whistles... And I get to share it...with the rest of the family..

My second computer is a laptop...and I play gaming between breaks between classes and lunch..
Before the Heavy Metal patch...I could play the beta on both...yea my laptop has an unsupported Intel Graphic processor built into the Toshiba mother board...but I could still lob missiles and play some basic dance of death.

Heavy Metal patch has slowed the graphic refresh frame down to the level that I can literally count each frame....so the game is now unplayable on my laptop...

That severely restricts my gameplay time now...and brings up a key issue here.

Virtually 80 percent of the available PC market base is just like my Toshiba laptop in terms of graphic processing capability... The processor is integrated into the card... If I want to play MWO on a laptop...I will have to shell out about $2-3 THOUSAND dollars for a new higher end alienware/dell laptop with high end integrated graphic processing...

Got stats for that 80%? It looks like your confusing the "PC market base" with perhaps a "laptop market base" When I do PC purchasing for my company, when I walk around Target, Walmart and Costco, when I talk to my friends and neighbors about desktop workstation PCs more than half of them have some kind of 3D graphics card. Maybe they are GeForce cards, maybe they are Quadro or whatever equivalent AMD has. But regardless, that 80% number just doesn't reflect the PC (desktop) market even a little bit. As for notebooks, I'd say its 50/50 from personal experience. Your prices confirm that you are looking at high-end gaming laptops, but I've played MWO on a business class HP EliteBook with a nVidia Quadro graphics card that runs about $1500.

Also, this is a high end game running an intensive engine. I'd never dream of trying to run this game on a average laptop with a onboard Intel video chip. Just like I'd never load Skyrim on that kind of system.

Also the patches for this game have introduced graphical problems from time to time and this last patch was no different. In fact the devs were falling all over themselves with notes about known graphical issues in this last patch in regards to nvidia chipsets and certain drivers. It stands to reason that your laptop is maybe exposing a bug or that the game is getting to an advanced point where budget notebooks with simple graphics chips just won't cut it.

Also, eventually the game is going to get ported to DX11, how that will affect your life with that Toshiba and mine with a custom built ATI/AMD gaming system remains to be seen.

As for the rest of your comments, I don't have much to say because I see a ton of assumptions that don't line up.


(edited for some typos)

Edited by Apnu, 09 April 2013 - 08:50 AM.

[MaddMaxx]

I heard a rumor online it was likely due to a Server based issue. Work was still ongoing. S*it happens in the real computing world... alot.

[Mackman]

WarHippy, on 09 April 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

This is some of the most condescending crap I have ever read. The fact you can't even get your point across without spewing insults at people is pretty telling.

As for the 80% of the market not running graphics cards for gaming that is probably true, but it is because they are business computers or computers people use to check facebook and e-mail. These are computers that are not going to be playing anyway. So expecting games to be scaled back so it covers all of those is a fools errand. If you want more of this 80% market make a browser game for Mechwarrior that plays and looks like Angry Birds.

As for price of a gaming computer or laptop try looking into it. It isn't as much as you think. You can get a nice desktop rig with monitor for $1000 and you can get a laptop that will play MWO well for $1400. Well below your 2-3k statement. http://www.newegg.co...N82E16834230592
My laptop is 2 years old and I paid $1200 for it and it still plays MWO fine, but I bought it knowing what it was going to be used for.

Basically this. Has the OP never bothered to look at Newegg? Does he think that the pricing for computers goes from $2-400 for a crap-book, then just a huge gap until you hit $2500 for TEH ULTRA 1337 NERD-book? Why the insults? Why the pointless hyperbole?

Wait out the optimization. Then, if you still can't play it well, then you'll just need to accept that technology advances, and old technology sucks. Then go to Newegg and spend $5-600 on something that will run it at least on low settings.

[DeathofSelf]

OP, you have some bad information there sir. First, you are never going to get anything close to good performance on integrated graphics. Second, no, 80% of PCs are not running integrated graphics. Third, I just bought a laptop for about 1,000 which has a GT 650M 1GB, so no, you don't need to spend 2-3 thousand. (I also don't really get why people are so crazy about running games like this on laptops).

I really don't understand all the computer spec complaining. I built my desktop about 4 years ago (with then exception of a new graphics card which I only spent 150 on), 4 YEARS AGO, that is ancient in technology terms, and I can run the game 40-50 FPS on high.

Edited by DeathofSelf, 09 April 2013 - 10:27 AM.

[Target Rich]

let me reinterate children....

I am NOT talking about the high end desktop...computer/mecha geek world that ALREADY can play this game...That is about 10 to 20 percent of the PC world out there...

What I am talking about is the 80 percent of normal graphic cards that are on LAPTOPS....its those laptops that are the new normal...heck...desktops are rapidly going the way of the dinosaur...in fact most pc designers are moving rapidly to mirroring the IPAD environment...

So when you build a game designed to work only on a small percentage of the working real computers out there...you define a mickey mouse niche game playing to a dedicated...abet obsessive...but miniscule total market...

The ONE and ONLY way to avoid this guaranteed path of failure is to bundle in a low end base IN ADDITION to the HIGH END that is already in the game...

Other\wise this is and always be a tiny niche game...

And yours truely desparately WANTS a decent mecha game....that has a wide player base because I loved StarLance play in MW3 and that MMP mecha experience in Chromehounds....

Both games were the closest that Mecha has come to breaking into mainstream...because both could be played on a huge base of EXISTING pc's and gaming computers..

Gee...I thought that was simple stufff...

[malibu43]

Target Rich, on 09 April 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

Been playing MWO for about a month now... I have two computers...My desktop sits at home...with it's NVIDA card and all the nice bells and whistles... And I get to share it...with the rest of the family.. My second computer is a laptop...and I play gaming between breaks between classes and lunch.. Before the Heavy Metal patch...I could play the beta on both...yea my laptop has an unsupported Intel Graphic processor built into the Toshiba mother board...but I could still lob missiles and play some basic dance of death. Heavy Metal patch has slowed the graphic refresh frame down to the level that I can literally count each frame....so the game is now unplayable on my laptop... That severely restricts my gameplay time now...and brings up a key issue here. Virtually 80 percent of the available PC market base is just like my Toshiba laptop in terms of graphic processing capability... The processor is integrated into the card... If I want to play MWO on a laptop...I will have to shell out about $2-3 THOUSAND dollars for a new higher end alienware/dell laptop with high end integrated graphic processing... This is for this game only...I can play every other game that matters to me...and I play a bunch...on that laptop...abet at the bottom range of the game graphics...but I can still have fun. Big question here...marketing wise.: This game currently has rather large graphic processing requirements...with no basic level whatsoever... That's great for the very small and obsessive community of dedicated mecha nuts who spend their time obsessing on whether they will be purchasing a 5 k triple or dual screen setup...or some other nut case crap... But the basic question remains...how can any MMP game hope to succeed when its very structure automatically excludes 80 plus percent of its potential market up front.... and given the restricted abet fanatical appeal of mecha...probably only 20 percent of that remaining 20 percent that can even play the game....will probably shell out the bucks for the released game anyway. That equation results in a 5 percent best possible market share...which is a guaranteed recipe for a mickey mouse failed niche game.. The solution is to rethink this game's basic concept...yes its nice to play the super spectacular graphic effects for the nerd gamers playing the 3k computers....but you ALSO desparately need to provide a lower but FUNCTIONAL graphic end to the remaining 80 frigging percent of the available market that you have excluded by going high end graphics... That is not "bitching".....its basic and I mean VERY BASIC MARKET SHARE ANALYSIS!!!

Not to beat a dead horse, but your "3-4 thousand dollars" for a laptop to run this game is WAAAYYYY off. I can run MWO on my 2 year old HP on medium settings and get 30-40 fps consistently. I paid $1000 for it two years ago. I just happened to look on New Egg the other day and saw some ASUS laptops that now out-spec mine (both in processor and video card) that were selling for $750.

[Walk]

Target Rich, on 09 April 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

let me reinterate children....

I am NOT talking about the high end desktop...computer/mecha geek world that ALREADY can play this game...That is about 10 to 20 percent of the PC world out there...

What I am talking about is the 80 percent of normal graphic cards that are on LAPTOPS....its those laptops that are the new normal...heck...desktops are rapidly going the way of the dinosaur...in fact most pc designers are moving rapidly to mirroring the IPAD environment...

So when you build a game designed to work only on a small percentage of the working real computers out there...you define a mickey mouse niche game playing to a dedicated...abet obsessive...but miniscule total market...

The ONE and ONLY way to avoid this guaranteed path of failure is to bundle in a low end base IN ADDITION to the HIGH END that is already in the game...

Other\wise this is and always be a tiny niche game...

And yours truely desparately WANTS a decent mecha game....that has a wide player base because I loved StarLance play in MW3 and that MMP mecha experience in Chromehounds....

Both games were the closest that Mecha has come to breaking into mainstream...because both could be played on a huge base of EXISTING pc's and gaming computers..

Gee...I thought that was simple stufff...

you have literally no idea what you are talking about, do you?

Alright, I can tell you are pretty old, gotta say at least 50 by your condescending tone and the fact you haven't learned that you can't just make **** up anymore, since every single person has the internet at their fingertips and can fact check in a couple of keyboard strokes. It's ok, old people haven't re-adapted from this strategy yet, they still think it's the same as twenty years ago, where you could say what you want and if someone wasn't an expert in that field they couldn't look up the facts on the spot and call you out. That doesn't work in this day and age, accept it now and change, everyone knows you are an *****(as revealed by pretty much every single post in this thread).

So first off, you are trying to play a game on a computer that is simply not designed for games. That's like complaining that your Ford Pinto can't compete with a drag car in a drag race. You are using a Toshiba laptop, one designed to essentially browse the internet, facebook, youtube, etc, and attempting to play a game using modern graphics. It doesn't work, the same way your Ford Pinto can't compete in drag races, it's just not designed for it. Second off, your figure of 80% is made up on the spot. Anyone knows this, so stop citing false information. Lastly, try googling anything. You can buy a 500 dollar laptop with non-integrated graphics that will play this game at 30 fps on low settings, or you can spend 1000 for a laptop that will play this at 60 fps on med-high settings, or you can pay 1500+ for a laptop for one that can play 60 fps on max graphics. Just make sure you are looking at specific, gaming laptops. Or, you can do the same thing for 1/3 the price if you build your own desktop.

So no, your 500 dollar, 5 year old laptop designed to run firefox will not run MWO, nor will it run any other game designed within the last couple of years at a decent, playable framerate.

Edited by Walk, 09 April 2013 - 10:03 AM.

[WarHippy]

Target Rich, on 09 April 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

let me reinterate children....

I am NOT talking about the high end desktop...computer/mecha geek world that ALREADY can play this game...That is about 10 to 20 percent of the PC world out there...

What I am talking about is the 80 percent of normal graphic cards that are on LAPTOPS....its those laptops that are the new normal...heck...desktops are rapidly going the way of the dinosaur...in fact most pc designers are moving rapidly to mirroring the IPAD environment...

So when you build a game designed to work only on a small percentage of the working real computers out there...you define a mickey mouse niche game playing to a dedicated...abet obsessive...but miniscule total market...

The ONE and ONLY way to avoid this guaranteed path of failure is to bundle in a low end base IN ADDITION to the HIGH END that is already in the game...

Other\wise this is and always be a tiny niche game...

And yours truely desparately WANTS a decent mecha game....that has a wide player base because I loved StarLance play in MW3 and that MMP mecha experience in Chromehounds....

Both games were the closest that Mecha has come to breaking into mainstream...because both could be played on a huge base of EXISTING pc's and gaming computers..

Gee...I thought that was simple stufff...

Wow, more pointless insults from an uniformed pseudo intellectual color me unimpressed.

Nobody is talking about high end PCs that can already play the game but you. We all have pointed out your ignorance of what most low-moderate PCs/laptops are capable of playing. One does not need a $2-3k laptop to play MWO. MWO is a game that most anyone that plays games on their PC/laptop can play. It isn't an iPad game nor should it be. This game can and will succeed if it caters to the gaming market not the pocket calculator market. Scratch that lets take you point to the extreme lets make the game text base that way it can run on anything I want including my 10 year old graphing calculator. Talk about some sweet sweet marketshare.

Edited by WarHippy, 09 April 2013 - 10:01 AM.