40 replies to this topic

[Valdez Raptor]

I think the idea of half the team jumping shooting like they do is relatively ******** and far too easy. This "poptarting" that people call it needs a serious look into. A good solution is increasing screen shake while jump jetting to make it more difficult for someone to aim and shoot at another mech at a distance. Jump jets weren't designed for this.

I also like to know why all the anti-lrm people aren't up in arms about this. I mean one of their arguments against LRMs being a good weapon was it was to "Soften the enemy up" before a brawl. That their use was hurting the brawl of the game. These jump snipers are doing far worse than any LRM's did (when they weren't broken)

Where are the Mechwarrior is a brawling game when all these jump snipers are making it into a jump snipping game.

And you can't tell me there's nothing wrong with it when more and more people in every match are doing it. I see half a team doing the same tactic in several matches in a row you know there's an imbalance in it.

[w00tzor]

It's simple, poptarting is not lock on, it's not that simple killing/damaging the enemies with poptarting. Many many people use those CTF-3D because they are "cheesy" but only a few have skill.

Stop QQing about it.

[Leiska]

Nah, the anti-LRM crowd hates missiles because "they don't require aiming and must therefore be easy mode".

As far as poptarts go, I haven't found them that bothersome. Their air velocity is really slow, so they aren't that hard to snipe back. I don't think JJs have much use outside of poptarting, anyway.

Edited by Leiska, 11 April 2013 - 04:46 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Poptarting or sniping in general is the meta because LRMs are dialed back (probably the 100th time I've written that since the rollback on LRM damage).
LRMs are the natural predator of snipers.
Please understand how the WHOLE weapon system works before calling for Buffs/Nerfs.

[Team Leader]

I think jump jets should add a little shake no matter what. I don't even have a problem with jump snipers, if they kill me, whatever. Just a game. But to seriously (using a spider as an example) think that your rockets are firing out of your feet, flying though the air at 150 Kph, you're targeting systems can achieve pinpoint 100% perfect accuracy no matter what? I kill so many cataphrachts using a single ER PPC and good piloting. It's too easy.

[Willie Sauerland]

I'm sure

3rd Person View

will balance this

just fine.

[w00tzor]

Roadbeer, on 11 April 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

Poptarting or sniping in general is the meta because LRMs are dialed back (probably the 100th time I've written that since the rollback on LRM damage).
LRMs are the natural predator of snipers.
Please understand how the WHOLE weapon system works before calling for Buffs/Nerfs.

Really? How can LRMs can kill a sniper hiding behind cover? A sniper can shoot his long range alfa strike just popping out of cover for like 2 seconds, not enough for LRMs to reach his position.

[Willie Sauerland]

w00tzor, on 11 April 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Really? How can LRMs can kill a sniper hiding behind cover? A sniper can shoot his long range alfa strike just popping out of cover for like 2 seconds, not enough for LRMs to reach his position.

Two words:
Spotting

&

Timing

[Roadbeer]

w00tzor, on 11 April 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Really? How can LRMs can kill a sniper hiding behind cover? A sniper can shoot his long range alfa strike just popping out of cover for like 2 seconds, not enough for LRMs to reach his position.

It forces them to keep under cover. Problem with the new meta is that snipers are getting lazy and pretty flatfooted with the ability to burn down the brawlers on their way to them.

[Livewyr]

I have an idea to fix this "flat plane ranged poptart combat"

Dense Fog Generator: DFG

-1.5ton 2 Crit Space equipment that envelopes the mech in Fog so that lasers have to be on target for .5 seconds in order to burn through it an do damage (with the remainder of the beam.) PPC charges would disperse in the fog in the form of lightning that would do 3-5 damage to the mech. This fog could be dissipated by a mech using Jump jets near it, using flamers on it, or by hitting it with missiles to disperse the cloud.

Available on the Hunchback 4G, Dragon 1N, Awesome 8Q, and Stalker 5M.

-------------------

That would put Jump Sniping right about where I want it...

[Tie Ma]

pros of jump sniping:
1. minimal chance for enemy to return fire
2. by the time jump jets recharge, heat has dissipated.
3. high vantage point

Cons of jump sniping
1. angle of attack limited
2. Opponent can find cover
3. away from team
4. tonnage sacrifice to mount jumpers


seems alright right now

Edited by Tie Ma, 11 April 2013 - 04:56 PM.

[Viper69]

Predictable poptarts are easy to beat, its the ones who change position after every few shots that are harder to beat. Nerf them with your tactics not with the developers.

[w00tzor]

Willie Sauerland, on 11 April 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Two words:

Spotting

&

Timing

I'm pretty good at poptarting with my 3D and i can say, if played carefully, that LRMs are not a trouble for a good sniper.

[Willie Sauerland]

w00tzor, on 11 April 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

I'm pretty good at poptarting with my 3D and i can say, if played carefully, that LRMs are not a trouble for a good sniper.

Sad thing is,

a lot of them

are not played carefully

and are easily defeated

with just such a tactic.

[w00tzor]

Willie Sauerland, on 11 April 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

Sad thing is,

a lot of them

are not played carefully

and are easily defeated

with just such a tactic.

Then, why they should nerf something that if not carefully played is easily defeated?

[Willie Sauerland]

w00tzor, on 11 April 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

Then, why they should nerf something that if not carefully played is easily defeated?

I wasn't the one

calling for the nerf.

I am the one

who said

3rd Person View

would balance it

perfectly.

[One Medic Army]

Roadbeer, on 11 April 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

It forces them to keep under cover. Problem with the new meta is that snipers are getting lazy and pretty flatfooted with the ability to burn down the brawlers on their way to them.

Not really.
It just forces them to peek, acquire target, aim, and fire within a shorter window.

[Deathlike]

Are the OP's comments related to not having used JJs?

Once I started using JJs on the Catas, I could not stop using them at all. These are not instant-invincibility objects... you do actually need some skill to use them properly.

I should have used them more when I grinded in the Raven-4X.

Edited by Deathlike, 11 April 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[NotEnoughDakkaDakka]

When I see poptarts, I laugh. Most of them don't have good enough aim to hit anything going faster than 64kph reliably. While going at 142, unless you're going in a straight line, almost nothing will touch you.

Also, most of them use the 2 PPC/Gauss setup. Get in close and nullify most of their damage, or sneak up behind them and poke them with your smallest weapon, wait for them to turn around...

Or you could do arm surgery (most people don't have much armor there.), or leg surgery (even less there), or if you feel plain and lucky, just core them. Otherwise, stay out of their LOS and you're golden.

(Warning; fairly long post ahead)
SITUATIONS:

Laser-heavy mech (We'll use a Stalker and a Catapault K2 with 6 LLas/4 LLas respectively for examples) versus Cataphract 3D.
OPTION 1: Charge them head on. In the Stalker, you can probably take two or three hits to the CT before you lose armor to the CT, and his buddies will tear you a new one as well. In general, unless he's alone, don't do this. He has the range advantage, even if you have the 54 damage alpha with 30% heat buildup per shot, assuming you have lots of DHS. In the K2... don't do it. He'll pop your head right off.

OPTION 2: Flank. In a Stalker, this might take awhile, and you have a decent chance to be noticed. Succeed, however, and he's a sitting duck for you as you peel his legs off in a salvo or two each, and he can't put out enough firepower to do anything reliably to you without a headshot. In a K2, you have the mobility advantage. Peel off any damaged components, and do hit-and-runs to maximize your chances.

OPTION 3: Fire support. In a Stalker, you will probably get hit more often than not unless there's a mech on your team that takes higher prevalence to take down (6PPC Stalker, splatcat, cheese builds, etc...), though you have an easy shot on him. The same thing goes for the K2, though you will sustain less damage overall in exchange for more vulnerability to face-shotting.

BALLISTICS (Examples would be MG Spider, HBK-4G, Ilya/Jager and Atlas versus CTF-3D.)

OPTION 1: Charging. The Spider would have an advantage here, as he'll have the neccesary mobility to get up in the poptart's face and pepper at him, distracting him while teammates take him down. The 4G and Ilya/Jager, with an AC20 or triple-UAC5s would also have a distinct advantage here. The AC20, while delivering little to no damage past 540m, still gives a HELL of a screenshake, and tells that enemy poptart to either A: Back the hell off, or B: Focus on you. Considering you're in a HBK, you have the speed to get away. Use it. In the Muromets/Jager with three UAC5s/anything with decent dakka will do the same, except with bigger damage results. An Atlas is kind of the only Assault with ballistics other than the Heavy Metal... so just be an atlas. Put 100+ armor in the CT and you'll be a distraction. Don't expose yourself to poptarts for too long as an Atlas.

OPTION 2: Flanking. Spider has an advantage here, again, because if he lets teammates peel ANY armor off, everything in that section goes bye-bye with ridiculous DPS to anything in there. This may include heatsinks, PPCs, gauss ammo... you get my point. It also draws little attention to yourself, as he's going to ignore the tiny little -plink!- sounds anyways, since MGs are useless otherwise. The HBK and Muromets/Jager and the Atlas, if you somehow get to him... well, you'll kill him anyways. You're big stompy mechs with giant freakin' weapons. Even if you do die, you're still going to take most of his mech with you.

OPTION 3: Fire support. Spider does not do. Hunchback does not do. Ilya/Jager/Fatlas DO. With their screenshake capabilities, you'll be mussing their aim up something fierce. 'Nuff said.

SITUATION 3: MISSILES (COM-2D, HBK-4SP, Cat A1 with any setup, Stalker with any setup vs CTF-3D)

OPTION 1: Charge. Just... don't. Missiles aren't meant for this.
OPTION 2: Flank. This is where all these mechs can shine, assuming common sense.
OPTION 3: Fire Support. The A1 and Stalker can do this well, keeping the sniper from going out lest he get the missile rain. 4SP doesn't have the tonnage for anything more than maybe 2 LRM10s or a single LRM20, so don't do it. And if you're in a 2D... why are you asking? FLANK.

Why did I spend half an hour writing this?

[jeffsw6]

NotEnoughDakkaDakka, on 11 April 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

...
Or you could do arm surgery
...
Why did I spend half an hour writing this?

That's all I read. Where are the medic units on the map and will they repair my other components as well, or is it only arms?