42 replies to this topic

[Viper69]

Dishevel, on 12 April 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

Really?
Come into view of a 4 or 6 PPC Stalker. you are going to take a knarly hit.
Someone want to fire 60 LRMs are me from 800 meters. Cool.
If i get hit by 60 LRMs fired from 800 meters it means I screwed up.
Not saying it never happens to me. It has. When it does I feel stupid.
After that one patch LRMs got stupid powerful. Before that though they were fine.
LRMs should definitely melt you ***. You get an audible warning and a ton of time to do something about it.
No other weapon has that massive of a nerf. So when you do not take advantage of the massive nerf on LRMs you should get penalized for it.
Period.

you still have to aim those PPCs last time I checked.

The PPC has been back of the bus for so long let it be top for a bit, just as missiles have been melting people since closed beta they can sit a while at the back of the bus.

Although in a perfect world we wouldnt be having this conversation and weapons would be balanced. I personally dont know why they have splash damage and not just straight TT value per missile.

Edited by Viper69, 12 April 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[LackofCertainty]

HANGMAN1962, on 12 April 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

are you kidding me? pgi has gimped missiles so bad that thay are less then tt rules on damage output! a cat a-1 w/6xlrm-10s should have a firepower of 60"not 42"! an srm-6 should be 12 firepower not 9,streaks are 4 points not the 3 that's ingame dmge now! how about your ac 20 doing only 12 points of damage or a ppc only doing 6 points? then maybe you can see what the op is saying. and missile don't magicly teleport thru buildings either, unlike ppcs doing so now!

Have you actually used LRM's since the nerf?

Currently LRM's do around 1 damage per missile, because of their splash. Seriously, load some LRM's play a couple rounds, and then check your stats. When people list the missile's damage and DPS, they aren't counting in splash damage, so that 0.7 isn't actually as low as you think it is.

I hadn't used LRM's since before they started tracking stats, so after I hear about the nerf I threw on some LRM5's to test their real damage.

5 games played 475 hits, 473 damage. (0.996 damage per missile, which means an LRM 5's real dps is about 1.54)

[Jonathan Paine]

Increase LRM speed by 50% when firing with a lock. Increase LRM speed by 100% when fired without a lock. More missiles will hit= more damage. Problem solved. As for SRMs, they work well for me even though they are no longer the easy mode one hit insta gib monsters they used to be.

[Dishevel]

Viper69, on 12 April 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

you still have to aim those PPCs last time I checked.

The PPC has been back of the bus for so long let it be top for a bit, just as missiles have been melting people since closed beta they can sit a while at the back of the bus.

Although in a perfect world we wouldnt be having this conversation and weapons would be balanced. I personally dont know why they have splash damage and not just straight TT value per missile.

I am not bitching about PPCs.
I was simply stating that if you fear an LRM boat more than a PPC boat you have problems.

[Viper69]

Dishevel, on 12 April 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

I am not bitching about PPCs.
I was simply stating that if you fear an LRM boat more than a PPC boat you have problems.

I think we both misinterpreted each other. In my original statement I meant I would rather fight someone who has to work a little harder to hit me is what I mean. Not the weapons themselves.

Edited by Viper69, 12 April 2013 - 10:02 AM.

[Co Ward]

Trauglodyte, on 12 April 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

I agree with this because we definitely need more horrible players spamming missiles and face hugging their targets because they're bad. After all, the end of game damage meter is the exact determinant of skill and effectiveness.

we want them to because when collisions and knockdowns come back in they will just end up being free kills.

[TehSBGX]

If they find a way to completely remove splash with out everything slamming some one's CT I'd be fine if missles got their old damage back. Missles are in a temporary spot, just give it a few months and they'll get better.

Actually I thinks Srms seem fine at 2 damage per missle. And even in my Cent, when I hear 'incoming missle' i kinda just roll my eyes while trying to half a** dodge them. Medium mechs shouldn't go "LOL LRMS TICKLE!"

[PropagandaWar]

Ngamok, on 12 April 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

Sorry but missles should not go back to 2.5. You complain about PPC and LL boats but putting missle damage back up will just bring back the Zombie Centurions, the 5xSRM6 Stalkers, the 6xSRM6 Cats, the 4xSRM6 Jaegers and so on and so on. And as already stated, those builds just promote facehugging.

I dont hug, then again I run a hunchback sp. if they dont up the damage to SRM's they need to add more ammo and less heat per ton. A SRM 4 does one more point than a med laser requires ammo has one less heat, goes half the distance and spreads all over (Usually with at least one srm missing). Boats are boats. What are they gonna say when the clan tech comes out and a Hunchy P gets to bog itself down in heatsinks? Unlike now.

Im fine with them even removing splash and only doing 2 points of damage too. Serms not streaks I think a streaks ability to spin in circles and hit the CT every second needs to keep its damage lower.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 12 April 2013 - 11:01 AM.

[Grayseven]

I can still throw out top or near top damage numbers in my 3x LRM15 Atlas without even trying.

No, I'm not taking a mech down 30% with each salvo any more, but I guarantee that a 45 missile salvo is still something to respect. It still causes people to take cover and disrupts an organized push.

Missile damage feels good right now considering the splash effect. If they raise damage, the splash effect needs to go away completely.

[Nightcrept]

We can't balance the games weapons due to their effect when players boat them. If we do we get the current situation of Lrm's and imo srm's being almost useless unless boated.

To me lrm's take more effort to hit someone with then the ppc family. My hit rate with ppc's erppc are almost triple my hit rate with lrms. Lrm's are super slow, have crap spread, have a seriously poor flight path, get a warning message and worse of all can be outran. Did we mention ecm.

With ppcs I aim and I hit. All I need to do is pay attention to my heat.

That being said at current levels if your running lrm's in game you are a liability to your team in 9 out of ten games.


Players are quick to pick up on this and you see very few lrm's anymore. This has reduced the games overall diversity and the strategy involved in playing.

[Grayseven]

I'm willing to bet that if LRM's kept a spread on impact instead of seeming to bunch up and home in at the target, LRM damage could (and should) be increased.

As it is now, increasing LRM damage (or SRM damage for that matter) would just lead back to everyone boating LRM's.

Boating energy weapons won't stop if this happens, however. The only way to curtail things like 6x PPC builds is to change the way heat penalties currently work.

If high heat did things like reduce weapon convergence and interfere with electronics, damage components regardless of being shut down or not and even went so far as to cause things like pilot gray-out then we would see less boat builds and a greater emphasis on heat management.

As it is now, there is no penalty outside of an enforced "time out" for alpha striking with 6x PPC's...which most PPC boaters are willing to accept considering they typically have the armor to withstand a few attacks between one-shotting opponents...

[El Bandito]

It is funny cause my LRMs have 25% hit ratio while my PPCs and Gauss got 50% hit ratio. My PPC/Gauss volleys deals more damage at faster rate too.

But PPCs are fine, right?

[Lucky Noob]

I latly drive an Missle Boat ( catapult) with 2 Artemis LRM 20 on it.

Even if Damage feels "okay" the Speed of the Missles is so damm slow.

If i fire at lets say 700 Meters, i can watch em fly forever till they finaly hit maybe .

I think increasing the speed a bit woud be nice. After that lets take an look on them.

after looking on my stats Missles seems to do nearly 1 Damage per missle.

The Problems seems the Hitrate of ca. 27 % compared to my Hitrate with Lasers 80 %.

Edited by Braddack, 12 April 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[Siliconwolf]

This is a pretty tired topic, with people still ranting that LRM's are a low skill weapon. Sigh...Direct fire weapons you aim with your crosshairs, LRMs you aim with your entire mech. LRMs are SLOOOOWW. If your experience with them is "I see target. I blow them up. LRMs are easymode", gratz, you've blown up noobs. I've killed some noobs with MGs I threw on a mech to play around with as well, guess that means that MGs are noskill, easymode weapons too.

[LackofCertainty]

Nightcrept, on 12 April 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

That being said at current levels if your running lrm's in game you are a liability to your team in 9 out of ten games.


Players are quick to pick up on this and you see very few lrm's anymore. This has reduced the games overall diversity and the strategy involved in playing.

Major exaggeration, dude. The two loadouts that I'm currently running are an atlas with 40 lrms, and a stalker with 65 lrms. I consistently end games at worst being #3 on my team for damage, and often end up #1 in damage in the entire game. Maybe I'm just a noob who only plays other noobs, but LRMs still do a helluva lot of damage. the 65 LRM stalker in general seems to be a monster to other slow mechs.

I definitely feel a bit weaker/more fire supporty when I mount LRMs instead of the current popular gear. However this is partially countered by the people who are currently convinced that LRM do nothing. LRM's still dominate in open terrain. (although lack of HSR means that high ping lights are occasionally immune)


Random thought: One tactic that I haven't seen many people using is utilizing torso twist while using LRMs. Most people just stare down the enemy mech until their LRM's connect or the enemy goes out of range, which gets them cored quickly by direct fire weapons. If you twist away to avoid damage, you can usually reacquire a lock in time to let your LRM's still hit. Heck, I do it even with TAG. You don't need to hold TAG constantly to get the benefit. Flicking it onto an enemy mech just before LRMs hit is enough. (unless they're an ECM mech obviously)

Edited by LackofCertainty, 12 April 2013 - 03:20 PM.

[Clannerfodder]

Viper69, on 12 April 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

I would rather fight a ppc boat that takes some manner of skill to aim than fight a missile boat that takes less effort to use.

you do realise that missles have a max and min range to be effective, there fore they do take skill, you also have to take into account that you need to have a target lock to use them to thier full potential.

[Deathlike]

Top title suggests "can't wait" or "doesn't realize all locking missiles target CT is actually OP".

Until they address the missiles hitting CT issue, don't bother.

[Maliconus]

Roadbeer, on 12 April 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

This thread is new and exciting.

This needs a poll to see how New and Exciting.....

[Smk]

Viper69, on 12 April 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

I would rather fight a ppc boat that takes some manner of skill to aim than fight a missile boat that takes less effort to use.

Sorry but I have a 67% hit rate with erppcs and a 71% hit rate with ppcs which is kind of strange but w/e. My hit rate with LRM15s which I only use with artemis and most of the time tag is 36%. Guess which weapon is harder to get to work.

LRMs are awful currently. They move so slow that I can almost always avoid them in any mech and they don't deal any real damage when they do land. I would only consider the damage they deal now as legit is if they tripled the speed of the missiles.

[Viper69]

Clannerfodder, on 12 April 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

you do realise that missles have a max and min range to be effective, there fore they do take skill, you also have to take into account that you need to have a target lock to use them to thier full potential.

Smk, on 12 April 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

Sorry but I have a 67% hit rate with erppcs and a 71% hit rate with ppcs which is kind of strange but w/e. My hit rate with LRM15s which I only use with artemis and most of the time tag is 36%. Guess which weapon is harder to get to work.

LRMs are awful currently. They move so slow that I can almost always avoid them in any mech and they don't deal any real damage when they do land. I would only consider the damage they deal now as legit is if they tripled the speed of the missiles.

It was my opinion is all, you two have yours.